Why are people here dismissive about Legion's complaints?

[Mehrunes]

It doesn't need more than a couple of White Knights to throw out those generic responses to kill the conversation and deflect it all and make it personal. There are plenty of them here and it's what so, so many of these threads degenerate into.

But did you read every single post of said "White Knights" to be able to throw such accusations around?

[mhdoe]

Because generally the complaints I see on sites and forums are fairly far reaching and by people that want the game designed to their wants and needs. Forgetting that there are millions of others who do not agree with them or do not have issues with the game. Does that mean I think it is perfect not by far but I do enjoy it and remind myself once in a while it is a game I use to relax and enjoy regardless of the changes they have made. And maining a lock for 10 years I have seen many maaaaaaaaannnnyyyyy changes.

[TheFirstOnes]

I wouldn't say it's my favourite, but it's certainly a good one. With plenty of good features and, unfortunately, some flaws.

But I'm still waiting as to when the word "Opinion" comes into play on said previous posts and where was the part that I missed it.

Ugh, idk anymore. I just got out of a few games of CoD, it was my first time playing since a while, and I was trolling some kids there.

There was lots of triggering with them. I apologize if I'm a bit..pissy today.

[Darkeon]

Ugh, idk anymore. I just got out of a few games of CoD, it was my first time playing since a while, and I was trolling some kids there.

There was lots of triggering with them. I apologize if I'm a bit..pissy today.

No worries whatsoever.

[Wildpantz]

From a casual player 1-3 hours per day 5 days a week. This is the best the game ever been ap/ak mythic plus wqs suramar. I only pug am 3/7mythic havent done trial yet my druid have all 4 weapons rank 27. However if i would have been progress raiding like i used to all of theese plus the alt gearing split raids was a pain. These issuses affect so few people its not an issuse. Class balance in pve is really good there is some weak numbers few talents that feels weird but you switch alot more then wod. I got 3 shit legendarys no dps ones dont even use rhem they are not needed dont understand why people whine. Sometimes when i see people in trade whining about legendarys or weak dps i armory them and its clear they only go for ilvl.

[Tharkkun]

Dismissive because Blizzard listened to you last xpac and look at how that turned out.

Alpha testers and theorycrafters made a good point on this. Yet again their feedback got ignored, thanks to the overshadowing flood of shitposters.

I wouldn't to listen to alpha testers and streamers either. You can take their feedback and apply it as you see fit. There's tons of "idea people" in this game but ideas don't get created unless someone can code them to work in a meaningful way.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a description, not an argument.
And coming to a public place of discussion, seeking out specific topics of people voicing their criticism and then going after those folk because they do not want to hear "some idiot" nitpicking features - maybe they should, instead, be playing the game? Or, at the very least, not go into said threads?
And, if they really want to discuss the things on said discussions, they can go on ahead and explain why they do think it's not a flaw. But this is not quite what the OP says - it talks about people who actively shut down and dismiss any and all criticism.

And the last part seems awfully lot like you expecting the player-base to settle for whatever comes their way and not voice their criticisms whatsoever. Glad people do not do so.

Constructive criticism is perfectly fine. But I'd say 80% of the threads here are complete shit posters who wants things their way. Most people are unable to look past their agenda and peek at the big picture. Then if you disagree with their opinion they call you a white knight when you might actually like said feature they are tearing apart.

This community is divided just like the last US election and that's the real problem.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

People are dismissive because if something triggers you then just avoid it instead of constantly reminding people around you how triggered you are. I mean fuck if you burn your hand on a hot pan once I am sorry, and sure bitching about it is ok. A few moments pass and you grab it again and start bitching I might have to slow your roll and let you know your a dumbass. That's what's happening here. Make your case. It is fine to have a case. But to constantly bitch and moan about it.. man.. it just gets old. Maybe WoW was once the game for you and now it's not. It's cool. I have been here though all the ups and downs. Some I didn't like and others I did. But I never went on how stupid the game was or how stupid anyone that disagreed with me. I just had a set of balls that let me make a simple fucking choice. Is this problem going to make me quit. Yes or no. Then I made the choice and moved on. Didn't need the community to know, support it, or confirm it. Be your own fucking person. Make the choice. Deal with it.

[Zenotetsuken]

No one is defending anything. They simply have differing opinions. So basically only the OP is allowed to have an opinion and everyone else is supposed to bow down and kiss his feet? Again get the fuck out of here.

lol calm down kid, all I said was that some people refuse to see anything good, some people refuse to see anything bad, but most people just don't want to get caught up in the blind zealotry of either side, so they just voice what frustrates THEM.
It is very clear that you are one of those "Attack anyone with a different opinion" people who claims that everyone has a right to their own opinion. YOU are the problem, not people who voice their frustrations.

[Beefsquatch]

Whoa, quite a few posts to reply to but I'll make general statements to address them.

First and foremost, I'm not dismissing anyone's complaints or praises on the game or being intentionally vague on my complaints. Matter of fact, I always welcome a decent discussion into the issues (or praises) that plague WoW today. One could learn a thing or two from others. This thread was created to try and understand why people (specifically on here) are so quick to dismiss someone's complaints. I've been on this site for some years now and it's always like that. The mod that replied to me here said something along the lines of "No need to think that your reality is the same as everyone else's". What the shit does that have to do with this thread? People don't simply disagree with you on here, they are completely dismissive of ones opinions before completely hearing them, whether it's a complaint or praise. Which happened already before I was able to properly reply to everyone.

Hence, the reason for this thread.

Again, this is a fantastic expansion. The content is amazing, the lore is amazing, the art is amazing, the raids/dungeons are amazing. My (and many others) MAIN gripe with the game is the class design. The majority of the specs are flat out boring and botched to high heaven. I must emphasize that this is NOT a numbers thing. I couldn't give a rats ass about topping meters, all I want is to have fun with my class. But, how can an Unholy DK have fun when their pet is useless, when there is little to no mobility (wraith walk is useless in most situations), muthafuckin GCDs! Ele shams, warlocks in general (I feel for you guys) and hunters are all in very bad spots. Druid is my current main, and while I'm enjoying Guardian and Balance, there is so much room for improvement. I can't say too much for the rest as I have not personally played them, but I've read on the forums and have an idea of what the other classes are going through.

With all that said, I'm well aware that there are some classes (or rather, specs) that are quite enjoyable. Ehn and resto sham, for example, are super fun imo.

I think a lot of the issues stem from how intertwined both the artifact weps and legendaries are to our core design. I think this was a big mistake, but it's probably too late at this point. I understand that everyone has different opinions on what is good and bad, but there is always a "general consensus", and class design being shit seems to be one of them. Which, again, is why I'm a bit perplexed at the dismissive attitude here.

The AK/AP system, is also something else that should be looked at. It really needs to be character bound rather than solely on specs, as it is more a QOL issue.


Also, something else I'd like to add. I think it's pretty silly to expect everyone to detail out the issues and potential fixes to whatever issues they may have. Your average joe doesn't know the ins and outs of how most of these things work (myself included). So the most they can do is say "this shit sucks, please fix it blizz". There are dozens upon dozens of threads with constructive criticism and information with an insane amount of detail on the problem and different options on how to fix said problems that the community agrees with. Just take a look at the class/gen forums on WoW's site, it constantly gets ignored. The only thing that gets replies is that toxic behavior. If blizz were to actually engage in conversation with the community, like they have promised a million times before, then maybe that wouldn't be an issue and the community wouldn't be so toxic. Yet, here we are.

[darklogrus]

Apart from AP farming which is retarded, the game is the same as it always has been.

Class 1 :WAHH I WANNA BE THE BEST WITHOUT EFFORT.

Class 2: I AM THE BEST WITHOUT EFFORT, DONT NERF, OH FUCK NERF, WAHHH

Class 3:TOP GUILDS DONT TAKE MORE THAN 1 OF MY CLASS IN THEIR RAIDS, WAHHHH

Therefor, there isnt anything different, just people whining cause they can.

Yes, AK/AP system is retarded, it should become account wide ASAP, but it will never cause they probably believe they would make you sub more for playing your alt, than quitting.

Problem with WoW is the community, not the game.

Because top guild 1 stacks class x times, for whatever valid reason, guild 3000 and guild 5000 players believes it affect then somehow instead of simply focusing on doing the best they can on their own class, in their own guild.

There is pretty much why. Even if you came out with a well thought out critique with a list of reasons why and 3 pages of data to back it up. You will be called a whiner and a crybaby even though that person has zero knowledge of the class. All the while they will be roaming around telling people blanket statements about how much better the classes are with nothing to back it up other then new animations..

[Relapses]

...the fifty-plus threads that people make a day about this very topic would disagree with the silly assertion by the OP.

Besides that, who would've guessed that people on a fan-run forum usually enjoy the game they're playing? Sorry MMO-C isn't the massive "FUCK LEGION RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE" circlejerk utopia you dream about.

[KrazyK923]

Apart from AP farming which is retarded, the game is the same as it always has been.

Class 1 :WAHH I WANNA BE THE BEST WITHOUT EFFORT.

Class 2: I AM THE BEST WITHOUT EFFORT, DONT NERF, OH FUCK NERF, WAHHH

Class 3:TOP GUILDS DONT TAKE MORE THAN 1 OF MY CLASS IN THEIR RAIDS, WAHHHH

Therefor, there isnt anything different, just people whining cause they can.

Yes, AK/AP system is retarded, it should become account wide ASAP, but it will never cause they probably believe they would make you sub more for playing your alt, than quitting.

Problem with WoW is the community, not the game.

Because top guild 1 stacks class x times, for whatever valid reason, guild 3000 and guild 5000 players believes it affect then somehow instead of simply focusing on doing the best they can on their own class, in their own guild.

Damn it was literally the first response to the opening comment before you strawmanned the shit out of everybody.

OT: It's because people NEED it to be good otherwise they might have to acknowledge they're now only adding in a shitload of time sinks to keep people paying. Or maybe its because WoD was so bad that they NEED Legion to be amazing else somehow the game seems to definitely obviously be declining.

You are quite literally the perfect representation of the Legion white knight. It doesn't matter what arguments people make, you will just strawman them into somehow meaning "I want everything without effort."

Maybe put a little effort yourself into actually explaining why people are wrong in what they're saying versus just screaming people want everything for no effort.

[TheFirstOnes]

No worries whatsoever.

Alrighty then.

[Zairn]

A lot of the complainers tend to be hyperbolic about the state of the game. In addition, they will often act like their personal disagreements with design or problems they have are somehow universal. It's one thing to be personally disappointed, but speaking for the entire community ESPECIALLY when we, as people discussing the game online, are already in the VAST minority of the player base, is stupid.

The WoW fanbase as a whole can be so frustratingly selfish and immature and completely and utterly ignorant at times about what goes into making a game with broad appeal. There's like a 75% chance that if you have ever said "Why are the devs so stupid/they are ruining this game/they don't play x class/they hate x class/they don't care about x" then your opinions are literally worthless.

So again...there IS a difference between the good posts on design problems with the expansion and the usual complaining. I'm not trying to say the expansion doesn't have flaws, or that people pointing out those flaws are inherently bad or wrong, to the contrary, we NEED people providing productive posts on problems. Whining and hyperbolizing about the state of the game is uh...not the way though, and people that do it should be dismissed.

[TheFirstOnes]

Damn it was literally the first response to the opening comment before you strawmanned the shit out of everybody.

OT: It's because people NEED it to be good otherwise they might have to acknowledge they're now only adding in a shitload of time sinks to keep people paying. Or maybe its because WoD was so bad that they NEED Legion to be amazing else somehow the game seems to definitely obviously be declining.

You are quite literally the perfect representation of the Legion white knight. It doesn't matter what arguments people make, you will just strawman them into somehow meaning "I want everything without effort."

Maybe put a little effort yourself into actually explaining why people are wrong in what they're saying versus just screaming people want everything for no effort.

Mate, calm down, the salt if showing exponentially.

Besides, triggered much? Why reply to him, calling him a white knight? I mean, you clearly don't understand the meaning of what a "White knight" is, so why use it?

Must we use the dictionary again buddy? Dude, I'm a fan of some, if not most of your videos, but sometimes you can get a bit...psycho, ok?

I'm just trying to help you with that anger stuff you got going there. Calling people "White-knights", and bashing their opinions of a game/community is not ok, not at all, it's not constructive. Besides, I love legion, not matter what flaws it has, are you going to call me a fanboy now? No? Ok then.

Let me just tell you this, I think you're a cool guy at times, yet I think you've been on too much internet. I get the fact that you hate legion due to the classes, and time sinks (Warlocks and suramar for example...even though suramar is skippable...and you don't have to be good to play a warlock correctly) that's fine by me, but....try to keep a tone. You sometimes make that hugh mungus wot girl seem innocent. The way his comment was did seem a bit repetitive, I can agree by that, but you don't have to make your response the same way. Like, what's this BS?!

"OT: It's because people NEED it to be good otherwise they might have to acknowledge they're now only adding in a shitload of time sinks to keep people paying. Or maybe its because WoD was so bad that they NEED Legion to be amazing else somehow the game seems to definitely obviously be declining". - Necroxis

What? Timesinks? WHAT?! You said you play vanilla, right? And..didn't that have MASSIVE timesinks?! I'm pretty sure it did. Yet you complain here? Ok....

And acknowledge? The only think i'm going to acknowledge is the fact that I don't have to acknowledge anything. Allow me to play legion the way I'd like to please. Just because you hate something, doesn't mean I do. Just making this clear.

"Maybe put a little effort yourself into actually explaining why people are wrong in what they're saying versus just screaming people want everything for no effort"

-Necroxis


Maybe put a little effort yourself into doing to the timesinks, and buffing up your dude? I mean, it's not hard. All it requires is a bit of time and effort, and bam, you're done. Took me 1/2 days just to get honored with suramar. And it took me a few days just to get to rank 27.

It's not hard at all. Simple, and easy. Doesn't take forever, and I usually play for like 1-3 hours anyway.

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...the fifty-plus threads that people make a day about this very topic would disagree with the silly assertion by the OP.

Besides that, who would've guessed that people on a fan-run forum usually enjoy the game they're playing? Sorry MMO-C isn't the massive "FUCK LEGION RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE" circlejerk utopia you dream about.

I can agree with this 100%. The OP seems to dream quite alot, in order to act like a special snowflake on the fourms, right?

[potis]

Damn it was literally the first response to the opening comment before you strawmanned the shit out of everybody.

OT: It's because people NEED it to be good otherwise they might have to acknowledge they're now only adding in a shitload of time sinks to keep people paying. Or maybe its because WoD was so bad that they NEED Legion to be amazing else somehow the game seems to definitely obviously be declining.

You are quite literally the perfect representation of the Legion white knight. It doesn't matter what arguments people make, you will just strawman them into somehow meaning "I want everything without effort."

Maybe put a little effort yourself into actually explaining why people are wrong in what they're saying versus just screaming people want everything for no effort.

Because i know the players, i see them every day in my own friends, i know how they think, all the cheap excuses and worthless crap they say to simply not accepting that they suck, or putting enough effort to become any better.

"its the class"
"Its the lack of legendary"
"You will see when i will farm more AP!"
"Lag"

I dont white knight Legion, Artifact power is shit, Artifact knowledge is uber shit, legendary system is bad, there are tons of problems, but the community is the biggest problem as it always has been.

The biggest problem of Legion, is the clueless players themselves, not Legion itself.

Its the players that refuse to learn what to do in what situation to maximize their potential.

Its the player that believes he is anywhere near as good as the streamers/videos of the top guilds he watches.

Its the player that because of wowprogress or whatever other video/site will refuse <non-fotm> class for whatever reason he read, he doesnt know why, but he read it somewhere.

Its the player that finds whatever god damn excuse to not get better or try to get better or do anything to get better.

[Relapses]

Because i know the players, i see them every day in my own friends, i know how they think, all the cheap excuses and worthless crap they say to simply not accepting that they suck, or putting enough effort to become any better.

"its the class"
"Its the lack of legendary"
"You will see when i will farm more AP!"
"Lag"

I dont white knight Legion, Artifact power is shit, Artifact knowledge is uber shit, legendary system is bad, there are tons of problems, but the community is the biggest problem as it always has been.

The biggest problem of Legion, is the clueless players themselves, not Legion itself.

Its the players that refuse to learn what to do in what situation to maximize their potential.

Its the player that believes he is anywhere near as good as the streamers/videos of the top guilds he watches.

Its the player that because of wowprogress or whatever other video/site will refuse <non-fotm> class for whatever reason he read, he doesnt know why, but he read it somewhere.

Its the player that finds whatever god damn excuse to not get better or try to get better or do anything to get better.

Bravo! This is one of the best thought out and well-written posts I've ever seen on this forum. I wish more people would realize that the biggest problem isn't Legion so much as it is the players who refuse to have accountability for their own shortcomings. I get that it's simple human nature but the lengths to which some people go to blame anything and everything that absolves themselves of guilt is borderline insanity at some points.

[Tart]

The warcraft side of this forum is pure poison from both sides.

[Deleted]

The warcraft side of this forum is pure poison from both sides.

Are we going to pretend all the other sections are any better?

[kamuimac]

So I took a little month break because of how frustrated I was with the actual gameplay in Legion (class gameplay) and recently noticed many others on the WoW forums feel the same. There is a serious problem with classes that needs a big redesign imo to fix. Not to mention blizz ignoring the shit out of players (except mages so it seems?) so my question is, whys everyone here on MMOC ignoring that issue?

Legion is probably the most content and lorenrich expansion, yet it's totally ruined by class design choices and the retarded AP/AK system that makes respecting and rerolling a pain in the arse. Anytime it gets brought up you guys tear the OP a new one. Why?

because mmochampion is filled with whiteknights ready to defend blizzard to death - its the same people who were defending WoD from day one till well into HfC. no matter what blizzard does its amazing according to them - its pointless discussing with them as they dont want to discuss anything