Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[voidillusion]

These numbers are barely worth anything. If i recall correctly LK didn't even have the online purchase option at release. Feels to me you're comparing what can't be compared and worst of all based on what Blizz wants ppl to know and not the actual numbers and their importance.

[Mazaxist]

lol fanboys are mad we are enjoying vanilla while they get to do pet battles and shoot rainbows. gg. see you soon on nost boys!

[Kyanion]

These numbers are barely worth anything. If i recall correctly LK didn't even have the online purchase option at release. Feels to me you're comparing what can't be compared and worst of all based on what Blizz wants ppl to know and not the actual numbers and their importance.

Which is the point we're trying to make to him that going off box sales means very little.

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lol fanboys are mad we are enjoying vanilla while they get to do pet battles and shoot rainbows. gg.

Yeah have fun with less options in Vanilla, Woo. Have fun grinding levels and then crying when the server gets shut down at some point? How many people are warriors and rogues, 60% of the server? Fun times. I'll hang my head in shame as I go back to my mythic+ group. I'm sorry!

[Vineri]

These numbers are barely worth anything. If i recall correctly LK didn't even have the online purchase option at release. Feels to me you're comparing what can't be compared and worst of all based on what Blizz wants ppl to know and not the actual numbers and their importance.

If all the sales were boxed sales during WOTLK, that would seem a detriment to the ongoing discussion, especially how WotLK population was somehow higher, in this case, specifically, WotLK with 12M subscribers, as documented. Retail never achieved such glory, did they.

All we can guess is 3.3M bought Legions .. less than half still play, based on past trends. 12M, I think not.

[Kyanion]

If all the sales were boxed sales during WOTLK, that would seem a detriment to the ongoing discussion (no digital sales), especially how WotLK population was somehow higher, in this case, specifically, WotLK with 12M subscribers, as documented. Retail never achieved such glory, did they.

WotLK was retail....

[Vineri]

WotLK was retail....

WotLK is Legacy.

so was Vinallia, TBC .. Retail is current WoW, not past WoW.

[Kyanion]

WotLK is Legacy.

so was Vinallia, TBC .. Retail is current WoW, not past WoW.

All of them were retail...and still are retail.

[Relapses]

Interesting. So a game that was in rapid growth previously is now inferior to a game in decline?

Subscriber levels are indeed important, in this case.

While subscription numbers only reveal world-wide popularity, they don't tell the whole story. The Cash-shop, for instance makes up for much of the lost subscription revenue, as existing players pay more, for less. Legions sold 3.3M units, while WotLK had 12M active players. Lets look at that amazing aspect.

It would seem something caused the decline, aye? Probably cross-realm shenanigans, auto-LFD, and a linear boring, lifeless lore trend that began with Cataclysm. Along with purples everywhere to appease the entitled.

Subscriber details might not be directly important to yourself (or me nowadays), but they do help explain popularity. Myself I think added-value cash-shop micro-transactions is where Blizzard makes a large chunk of their money. But this is now, not then.

Back then subscription numbers were much more important than you acknowledge, which is why they reported them.

Why the fuck does it matter? Why do you have to associate subscriber levels with a narrative? Is it possible for people to quit a game just because they quit wanting to play it?

No, you have to say that it's {x feature}. It has to be the inclusion of {y storyline}. It has to fit into your stupid little box so you can make neat little arguments in favor of Vanilla. You want to live in this hypothetical imaginary world where if the game stayed like it was in Vanilla, it would have kept growing exponentially. You want to pretend that market saturation isn't a thing. You want to ignore that the gaming climate which caused WoW to flourish in 2005-2010 hasn't fundamentally changed today.

But that's not reality.

That's just how you spin it. Subscriber levels do not matter for any argument because any justification you try to make in their favor is inherently flawed by the simple fact that the data is too broad and unspecific. So please, do yourself and your movement a favor and quit trying to make subscriber levels important. They aren't. They never will be. And anybody who is trying to use them to "prove" anything deserves to be summarily ignored.

[Deleted]

lol fanboys are mad we are enjoying vanilla while they get to do pet battles and shoot rainbows. gg. see you soon on snip boys!

Odd remark, since judging by your post history, you're playing Legion yourself. Guess you couldn't stay away from pet battles and rainbows yourself, eh?

[Vineri]

Why the fuck does it matter? Why do you have to associate subscriber levels with a narrative? Is it possible for people to quit a game just because they quit wanting to play it?

No, you have to say that it's {x feature}. It has to be the inclusion of {y storyline}. It has to fit into your stupid little box so you can make neat little arguments in favor of Vanilla. You want to live in this hypothetical imaginary world where if the game stayed like it was in Vanilla, it would have kept growing exponentially. You want to pretend that market saturation isn't a thing. You want to ignore that the gaming climate which caused WoW to flourish in 2005-2010 hasn't fundamentally changed today.

It is always interesting when someone on the losing team needs to invoke the F-bomb in order to establish a position, It is topic unto itself.

It's also interesting how come people will drone on with insults to make a point, such as:

It has to fit into your stupid little box so you can make neat little arguments in favor of Vanilla. You want to live in this hypothetical imaginary world where if the game stayed like it was in Vanilla, it would have kept growing exponentially.

What a world we live in. A world where the opposition is more angry than reasonable people with citations and hard facts, Blizzard and others.

[Relapses]

It is always interesting when someone on the losing team needs to invoke the F-bomb in order to establish a position, It is topic unto itself.

It's also interesting how come people will drone on with insults to make a point, such as:

It has to fit into your stupid little box so you can make neat little arguments in favor of Vanilla. You want to live in this hypothetical imaginary world where if the game stayed like it was in Vanilla, it would have kept growing exponentially.

What a world we live in. A world where the opposition is more angry than reasonable people with citations and hard facts, Blizzard and others.

This is an adult message board. I can say whatever the fuck I want whenever the fuck I want and however the fuck I want. You do not get to censor me nor do you get to dismiss the content of my post because you feel offended by a naughty word. If you cannot handle adult language being used on an adult message board in a conversation among adults, you probably shouldn't even be on the internet but I'm sure Hello Kitty Island Adventures is always looking for more recruits.

I stand by everything I've said and absolutely nothing in your post is even remotely close to a valid counter-argument.

[Mazaxist]

Odd remark, since judging by your post history, you're playing Legion yourself. Guess you couldn't stay away from pet battles and rainbows yourself, eh?

lol you checking my post history? get a life dude.

Sure i tried legion. played for 2 months and got bored again. world quests are OK but the rewards are the same exact gear every other quests. and its just boring in general. i liked mythic 5man but not + since i do not enjoy timed runs.

[Vineri]

This is an adult message board. I can say whatever the fuck I want whenever the fuck I want and however the fuck I want. You do not get to censor me nor do you get to dismiss the content of my post because you feel offended by a naughty word. If you cannot handle adult language being used on an adult message board in a conversation among adults, you probably shouldn't even be on the internet but I'm sure Hello Kitty Island Adventures is always looking for more recruits.

I stand by everything I've said and absolutely nothing in your post is even remotely close to a valid counter-argument.

Adults don't need to use the F-bomb. They can say exactly what they want, without using it.

Adolescents use it, in the absence of words.

In a public forum setting.

[Relapses]

Adults don't need to use the F-bomb. They can say exactly what they want, without using it.

That doesn't mean anything. That's your opinion but your moral compass isn't a reason to completely dismiss the content of what I wrote. I'd surmise the real reason you're feigning outrage is because you don't actually have a valid rebuttal. I'm okay with that but realize that I'm not going to apologize for using adult language.

[Vineri]

That doesn't mean anything. That's your opinion but your moral compass isn't a reason to completely dismiss the content of what I wrote. I'd surmise the real reason you're feigning outrage is because you don't actually have a valid rebuttal. I'm okay with that but realize that I'm not going to apologize for using adult language.

Actually I'm counting the number of times you used "adult" in the other post. I counted 4. Are you trying to impress someone?

I'm an adult I can say the F word .. F this ... I'm an adult ... F you .. I'm an adult .. F positions against me .. F you ... sums it up?

It's not a very good quality post. If anything it is the side effect of resorting to the F-Bomb as a discussion "point", which was subcription numbers. As already discussed, retail growth is lacking compared to Legacy growth.

Your "other" post was offensive, IMO. I skimmed it, but it was more riddled with hate than discussion issues.

[Relapses]

As already discussed, retail numbers are lacking compared to Legacy numbers.

I dislike repeating myself since this is literally what I said in my first response to you, but...

...if you can convince me there's a single thing that can be proven with information that isn't specific enough to draw any reasonable conclusions, I'll take my hat off to you. But since I know you can't, please understand that using indeterminate, broad and non-quantifiable data to dictate a narrative that people quit the game simply because of changes you personally dislike is not only flagrantly arrogant but also completely and totally pointless.

[pateuvasiliu]

Which is the point we're trying to make to him that going off box sales means very little.

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Yeah have fun with less options in Vanilla, Woo. Have fun grinding levels and then crying when the server gets shut down at some point? How many people are warriors and rogues, 60% of the server? Fun times. I'll hang my head in shame as I go back to my mythic+ group. I'm sorry!

Dunno man pretty sure I'll be playing my char in a few weeks. Y'know, the one Blizzard shut down?

Why are you fanboys so mad that people get to enjoy a superior product?

[Vineri]

I dislike repeating myself since this is literally what I said in my first response to you, but...

...if you can convince me there's a single thing that can be proven with information that isn't specific enough to draw any reasonable conclusions, I'll take my hat off to you. But since I know you can't, please understand that using indeterminate, broad and non-quantifiable data to dictate a narrative that people quit the game simply because of changes you personally dislike is not only flagrantly arrogant but also completely and totally pointless.

Break this up into paragraphs, please. Even though the post is short, it's hard to read.

Unless you want me to break out in colors.

[Relapses]

Break this up into paragraphs, please. Even though the post is short, it's hard to read.

Unless you want me to break out in colors.

...dude, come on.

You love to drone on and on about the greatness of Legacy and repeating the same ad nauseam and frequently disproven pro-Legacy circlejerks yet when I provide you with completely reasonable conjecture to support my argument, you're pretending you can't understand me.

[Kyanion]

Why are you fanboys so mad that people get to enjoy a superior product?

opinion much? Unless you think it being a superior product is a fact. If you really think it is a fact then there is no help for you.

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Adults don't need to use the F-bomb. They can say exactly what they want, without using it.

They may not NEED to use it but they can sure as hell use it if they want to. You just are using this as a method to deflect from what otaXephon said when he stomped down yet another silly idea of yours.

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As already discussed, retail growth is lacking compared to Legacy growth.

Do you have ANY proof of this? You seen the sub numbers? And what 'retail' growth. Some expansions stayed even (WotLK) some went down. But no, I'm sure you mean Vanilla which started small and grew in population. You know what did better than Vanilla? TBC. What the hell does that matter? What does subs have to do with ANYTHING? You are trying to point to sub count to show that people will flock to Legacy realms, aren't you? Or maybe you don't even know what the hell point you are trying to make.

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Break this up into paragraphs, please. Even though the post is short, it's hard to read.

Unless you want me to break out in colors.

Ah so you have no counter to his post. Thought so. You are just wasting his and everyone else's time by posting nonsense like this.