Yes
No
Neutral
The thing is, the women always knows the child is hers. No test needed to know that, obviously.
But literally anyone could be the father.
The employe i mentioned in my OP is on sick leave right now, because he's devastated. He was already attached to the child and finding out now was extra hard compared to if he had known at birth.
Single moms will have issues finding a new job, because they lack the experience, education, adult handling skills (all because they were home with the children for some months or even years), their children might keep them for showing up due to illness, a new potential pregnancy... Yes, a cheated man gave money, a cheated woman will end up not having any money to give, because its hard to find a job when she sacrificed "everything" for the children. For instance, male pensioners in Norway are better off than the females, because the latter stayed home and lost income (which of course means less pension). The financial aspect is there, for both genders
Women sacrifice a lot, all in the name of For the children! Were I a proper mother, I should have happily give up daily showers, sleep, adult stuff, working out, reading, whatever I want when I want it, everything that makes me what I am. Instead, I'd reduce myself to a servant. My individuality would cease to exist, I won't be Faenskap anymore, but "the mother of Name". Many women give a lot - perhaps too much - for the babies, whereas the men can pretty much continue with the pre-baby life. I mean, they have a job and get stimuli from other adults. A baby is a 24/7 job of which most responsibilty falls on the woman. Imagine doing all this, foregoing even spending as much time in the toilet as you want, just to have a husband ruining it. We could also mention what pregnancy/birth does
Of course, you could say the baby/toddler period doesn't last forever, which is true, particularly with one child, but it will have impact on the woman's ability to find a job, as she'd have a hole in the CV. The emotional aspect is there, again, for both genders
A relationship/family built on lies and deception sucks for both genders when they were cheated and the chaos is discovered.
So a man raising a "false" child will face that struggle, what he gave was for nothing, financially and emotionally. I understand this
A woman giving up her worklife, even herself, to raise the children she has with someone who cheated on her, will down the road suffer financially while already struggling emotionally. Do you understand this?
Originally Posted by Vaerys
It's a response to the stupid shit that bungee has been posting all along. Where he equates a chastity device for men with knowing paternity, instead of equating a chastity device for men with something similar, like a chastity device for women. Though particularly about whether or not those of us who are pro-paternity verification have also had our own geneology tested.
a blood test could also show if the child will have any treatable genetic diseases that with care can prevent further harm (epilepsy can cause brain damage if untreated)
not sure if any of it can be used for allergy tests? all OP is saying is alongside all these other tests a dna test could be done for paternal reasons.
i think it should be default as well.
Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.
This has nothing to do with cheating, this has to do with her raising a child. A child that this man should not be financial responsible for. And i think it is amazing how somehow females are off "worse" in prison, as they as a female get lesser sentences and much more help when they eventually get out. While at the same time the males can't work either, have to stay there longer and get even less pension. But hey, its hard being a female...
Nothing but an emotional appeal, when a woman wants to become a parent it is 100% her own choice, where as by males it is not and to top it off, they can't even be sure it is theirs without raising hell.Women sacrifice a lot, all in the name of For the children! Were I a proper mother, I should have happily give up daily showers, sleep, adult stuff, working out, reading, whatever I want when I want it, everything that makes me what I am. Instead, I'd reduce myself to a servant. My individuality would cease to exist, I won't be Faenskap anymore, but "the mother of Name". Many women give a lot - perhaps too much - for the babies, whereas the men can pretty much continue with the pre-baby life. I mean, they have a job and get stimuli from other adults. A baby is a 24/7 job of which most responsibilty falls on the woman. Imagine doing all this, foregoing even spending as much time in the toilet as you want, just to have a husband ruining it. We could also mention what pregnancy/birth does
Of course, you could say the baby/toddler period doesn't last forever, which is true, particularly with one child, but it will have impact on the woman's ability to find a job, as she'd have a hole in the CV. The emotional aspect is there, again, for both genders
A relationship/family built on lies and deception sucks for both genders when they were cheated and the chaos is discovered.
That you have to give stuff up as a parent is not something that falls solely to females, males give up just as much, if not more.
While it sucks for both, it is in no way "the same". This man will get nothing for his trouble but loss off time and loss of money. He even might have to pay for this "child of his" even thought its not his in any way.A relationship/family built on lies and deception sucks for both genders when they were cheated and the chaos is discovered.So a man raising a "false" child will face that struggle, what he gave was for nothing, financially and emotionally. I understand this
A woman giving up her worklife, even herself, to raise the children she has with someone who cheated on her, will down the road suffer financially while already struggling emotionally. Do you understand this?
At the same time the female gets to have her child, raise it, and gets child support for it. The fallout of these are hardly comparable while the exact same thing happened to both of them.
See, this isn't about cheating, it is about baring children. The difference is, when a male gets a female pregnant people expect him to take care of his prodigy unless the woman he got pregnant wishes another person to be the father, remember, she is under no obligation what so ever to inform the dad. So the dad will never know unless the mother wants him to know, and when she tells him all he can do is try and remember if they had sex around the time when the baby was conceived. Asking for a paternity test is tricky at best, you need to be distrustful of your spouse to get one as it is not yet the norm. And even if you manage to get one and it tested negative then you probably won't even have the right to know this, as you are not the father and have therefore no right to the medical information of this child.
Ok, so, I'm seeing a lot of people stating a reason for proper paternity testing as a means of obtaining a proper record for family history. I find this argument to be faulty in a few ways:
1) Paternity test comes back and shows someone else is the father-so now the "record" shows only that x isn't part of your family history and does nothing to determine your paternal family history.
2) Having worked on the clinical side of things for a number of major hospital chains-family history information is obtained directly from the patient via interview. Yeah, there would be exceptions, such as the patient is unable to communicate such things, in which case the parents themselves would have to be interviewed to obtain the family history. This is because...
3) Parent's medical records are protected by law. Just because an individual is being treated does not give cause for practitioners to breech into another individual's (e.g. the parents) protected health records unless given permission.
Are women really this loose in america?
Why are posters on this forum so cucked they would raise a bastard?
See, if I ever was in a relationship and had a child, I thought mine, only to later find out that my (now former) SO lied about that. I'd never let her keep that child. Maybe it's not mine by blood, but in every other way I'll be it's father. And the mother -clearly- isn't moral enough to teach said child not to lie etc.
-This argument is based on there having been time before finding out, and not right when new born. Since then I can't know how I'd feel about the child.
But then again, I doubt I'll ever actively try for children with someone where I feel there'll ever be a chance of me not being the father. And while I'm aware my trust might be misplaced and thus get tricked, the chance for that is rather small on the whole of it if I'm first in a committed relationship.
Considering the article in that link, which was a rather good read, it makes it even less of an argument. Since the rate even among people where they suspect it so is ~25%, so wrong three out of four times. At "best".
Everything you want to fix with the "but undue cost on fathers not fathers!" Can be fixed with less extreme legal and cultural changes. Setting it up so someone can't be sued for child support for a child not his after a paternity test, as an example.
Changing it so that people aren't expected to care for children conceived after a one night stand. Even if for that better sexual education will be needed in some places where that notion is more common than in other places.
As for the medical issues, if you assume the father is the one in a committed relationship with the mother, genetical things don't need to be tested if known. Several unknown factors are done in most of the western world pre-birth today since they can have harsh complications. If assumption turns out wrong (rather uncommon in stable relationships) then identifying the father can become an issue.
And as I've been repeating again and again. If you personally feel you can't assume you're the father but need it confirmed, you don't trust your SO enough. Or people in general.
This will always be individual issues, not systematic issues. Thus the solution needs to be individual, not systematic.
I'll now divorce myself from this thread, as all it does is make me want to bang my head against the wall because a few posters refuse to see things other than their point of view. Which people on the other side clearly empathize with, considering examples and points made to alleviate fears and issues brought up by the "Pro" side with more moderate suggestions.
Yes, the issue is about fatherhood of a child. No, that doesn't make it NOT about cheating. Since cheating is the base thing that will ruin the family. The thing that is the core of the issue is a cheating person in a relationship and some people wanting to put out a huge call of "We can't trust some of you, so we trust non of you!"
Yet only for one gender because of a very small minorities abuse of systems and lack of personal morals.
So basically screw what's really in the best interests of the child.
http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/famhistory/index.htm
what you don't know can't hurt you right.....
It is. That's however not what's going to happen if the child does not have two parents, when one leaves due to not being real parent.
Again, it's an issue about mens rights, so don't bring childs best interest into it, when it's not relevant. Same as childs best interest is not relevant when women argue about their rights, such as abortion.
There really should be no denying that a paternity test should be available. My main objections to having it be "standard" as described in the OP, which has connotations to mandatory/compulsory, that I have yet to see a good response for is...
1) Who will enforce mandatory paternity testing-the hospitals won't. That leaves the government, and to cross state lines, the federal government would have to get involved. Which leads to the question, do you really want the federal government involved in enforcing paternity testing? Of course we then would have to make special arrangements for home births-which are on the rise...
2) Who will pay for these mandatory tests? Keep in mind the above. There must be a governing body that ensures testing is regulated/performed. But these tests are not free, and now we would be crossing into the territory of having frivolous, i.e. non medically necessary testing, fees/charges/etc. being placed on individuals for proper medical care. Which, despite the many many issues related to hospital costs, is still legally frowned upon.
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That's the thing though, because of myriad privacy acts/laws/blah blah, ultimately the child and the child's parents are responsible for obtaining and disseminating their family history to those that need to know it, not the government nor the hospitals. Again, I am not saying that paternity tests be outlawed. But I am certainly against them being a mandatory test, especially when a common reason being thrown about for their being mandatory isn't valid-that of family history.
There needs to be an official logical fallacy, the "for the children" fallacy. I'm sure it falls into other fallacies, but I want one specifically for appealing to x for the "sake of the children".
Last edited by medievalman1; 2016-11-22 at 02:11 PM.
It would not be up to you if she kept the child or not, you are not the father and therefore have no claim. Only when she is a drug addict or something the courts might grand a hearing for it, but other then that it would be impossible.
And as this argument is indeed as you have said, not directly after birth but a long time after. It really has no baring on this, as with this test this would not occur long after birth any more.
I do not think anyone will try to actively get a child with someone they are not sure off. That doesn't mean that even though you are sure your spouse isn't and has cheated, or, this is just something that happened after a one night stand or a friends with benefits situation.
And i do not really think the fact that the chances aren't abysmal isn't a reason not to test for it. We test for things that have a much lower chance of happening, for good reasons.
that should be changed too, the child should have a right to know who it's parents (biological ones) are, not only for heath concerns but it's a big one now the parents can not look at the results but it should be done and on record and with pre-screening that can be done it should be wrapped up in that.
I haven't tried to say that. I haven't tried to make to make the argument about anything else but what it is; the mans right to know. Others have, and I have protested exactly that.
Why? Because if we place the childs interest higher on an issue about mans right, then what does the mans right even matter? Not much. So let's not do that.
Exactly. Besides all problematic things in regards to the relationships of men and women - such a thing makes me think of some kind of bullshit Nazi ideology. It's a short step to gather additional data in such mandatory genetical tests. Let's check if there is some children out there which are not-worthy to live or anything.
If you have some clues that the child is not yours, then pay for the test and get security. But these things should not be mandatory.
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As long as I don't see this "right to know" in a law text, I will laugh about it. So many men out there who ditch their responsibility, don't support their children, and now some jerks want to have a "right to know"? This is disgusting.
Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2016-11-22 at 02:29 PM.
I mean if you aren't into fucking everything that moves you should have no issues. Find a girl who has never been with anyone else before so you done have to touch another guys dick with yours. How I will and always have felt. Me an my wife have both only ever been with each other. met at 17 been together 12 years and never had the fear that either of us would cheat on the other, because the thought is just gross.
What? It's disgusting that person might have a right to know if the child they are raising is even their own? Why? It's not the responsibility of someone else, but the biological parents, morally speaking (without adoption agreements or such).
That's some class A homophobia, if you think you're touching another mans dick, because someone has had a partner before you.