7.1.5 BM Nerfs

[Deleted]

No need buff to aoe thats for sure. We simply need fix some underperforming talents, hati, AI, bake 1 or 2 talents baseline to have more interesting choice and for this xpac are we good to go. Is that so hard to do I ask? I am making conlusion from m+ only. I know BM on raids aren't good but still if we get little attention with above fixes BM would be fine. Noone ask them to completly redesign class right now or buff to be top dont make me wrong. Just little love here and there. Now it seems like we are left in dark to die and noone cares to fix even damnt Hati.

[Deleted]

BM really isn't that bad for DPS, though. Problem lies in how good/bad you are with pets.

Prime examples, moving the wrong on Ilgi, not moving them in time on Elrethe paltform swaps, etc. Once dark winds ends and she flies away, tell your pet to move already to the other paltform.

With that said, it still suffers the pet syndrome, but its really not as bad as people make it out to be.

[Kayagurcu]

The way I understand it cleave is pretty much doing normal single target rotation but splashing down other mobs at the same time.. like MM.. enhance shaman

BM AOE is great but it's not really cleave.. if you have important targets you need to down fast you can't really spam MS/stomp because he wont die fast enough

I don't consider it a problem because Bm burst with Cds is very high..

When I get mythic teams together I build around BM weakness anyway.. long silence CD/lack of decent stuns etc

This. I meant to say that we are superior at aoe dmg which is limited to 12 yards. Aoe dmg shines as bm when facing stacked +4 targets in 12 yards. For 1-3 targets, Chimera shot may solve this cleave problem.

[Deleted]

What's the problem with barrage? it's crap for bm anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

This. I meant to say that we are superior at aoe dmg which is limited to 12 yards. Aoe dmg shines as bm when facing stacked +4 targets in 12 yards. For 1-3 targets, Chimera shot may solve this cleave problem.

You are never really in a position where you cleave only 1-3 targets. Generally you are facing 10-20 mobs on average and burst them down.

[Deleted]

But that's the point...AK makes "starting from square one" really easy. You can get a new weapon up to snuff extremely quickly when you're AK15. You lose very little of your investment in BM because of how AK scales up.

Where the problem really arises is with gear and even more so legendaries. If you have a spec-specific legendary, you really take a hit by changing specs.

No, I don't lose very little. 1.3M AP is about 150 best quality AP tokens at my current AK level. Well, I suppose for some folks this can be very little. Too bad I'm neither pensioner nor minor.

[jaimelannister]

No, I don't lose very little. 1.3M AP is about 150 best quality AP tokens at my current AK level. Well, I suppose for some folks this can be very little. Too bad I'm neither pensioner nor minor.

You don't need 1.3M AP to have a decent weapon; you can get all 3 golden traits for like 400k AP.

[Deleted]

You don't need 1.3M AP to have a decent weapon; you can get all 3 golden traits for like 400k AP.

Are you implying that my 1.3M weapon is super awesome? Then I lose a super awesome weapon and get a merely decent one.
More nursery-level hypocrisy please. It was getting a bit boring in here.

[jaimelannister]

Are you implying that my 1.3M weapon is super awesome? Then I lose a super awesome weapon and get a merely decent one.
More nursery-level hypocrisy please. It was getting a bit boring in here.

I think you're confused. The point is that a 1.3M weapon isn't that much better than a 400k weapon, since the golden traits are the big ones for the most part.

[Wow]

Crit is underpowered for 2/3 of the hunter specs, I'm going to guess that the crit nerf is an attempt to fix secondaries by making crit relatively more valuable. 25% crit rate from gear is more valuable if you have 5% crit rather than 10%. I'm guessing we'll see some sort of baseline damage buff in the works.

I doubt that as it affected all agi dps and most of them want tons of crit already. I think something else is going on with this change.

[Deleted]

I think you're confused. The point is that a 1.3M weapon isn't that much better than a 400k weapon, since the golden traits are the big ones for the most part.

I think you might be slightly confused. BM is actually one of the specs where minor traits do catch up with golden ones (e.g. Jaws of Thunder was it?) and tripling your AP is time-consuming. There's no justification of this kind of tax on spec swap.

[SeagullMD]

Have you done a 15+ on time? Don't get me wrong there is a place for the brain dead cleave build and that's casual play 1-10 which is fine.

My casual brain dead cleave build works above 10.

There are BM hunters all over the 15+, hell there is a top 15 pass with 2 BM HUNTERS IN THE SAME GROUP.

I swear the people who rag on BM all day here have never bothered to even invest points in it and just hate it for some unknown reason.

I got 30 points in MM, 31 points in BM, both weapons over 900, 881 ilvl, both specs are more then viable.

[Madwolf]

As I understand it, since the 5% reduction in crit is DPS wide, BM is basically getting a small buff correct?

[Deleted]

As I understand it, since the 5% reduction in crit is DPS wide, BM is basically getting a small buff correct?

Yeah sure especially against all non-Agi dps.

[Pengalor]

I think you might be slightly confused. BM is actually one of the specs where minor traits do catch up with golden ones (e.g. Jaws of Thunder was it?) and tripling your AP is time-consuming. There's no justification of this kind of tax on spec swap.

Are you deliberately trying to speak from your ass? Once you get all the Gold Traits for BM the only traits left that affect your damage are the one for Cobra Shot damage and the 25-point final trait, the rest are utility. So that's 600k AP total to have everything but extra Cobra Shot damage and some survivability. You could have taken 20 seconds to look up the calculator and know this.

[zaphre]

As I understand it, since the 5% reduction in crit is DPS wide, BM is basically getting a small buff correct?

Considering the RNGness of BM tied to critical, a crit nerf on BM equals loss Focus Regen (DB early procs) and BW uptime (More DB=More BW), appart from the obvious raw DPS from crits.

And the 5% crit nerf is only on Agi based classes.

[Geran]

Considering the RNGness of BM tied to critical, a crit nerf on BM equals loss Focus Regen (DB early procs) and BW uptime (More DB=More BW), appart from the obvious raw DPS from crits.

And the 5% crit nerf is only on Agi based classes.

Right now crit % in bm is very low, you get more revenue from other secondary stats, also the RNG of DB makes it so clunky that mostly the procs don't help at all(yay!! it proc when cd was almost expired, i earned 1s).

Reduced crit is just to make the stat more appealing.

[Deleted]

Didn't felt it was needed to start an entire new thread so I will just tag along in this one. I am considering to switch to Hunter, but wanna stay ranged and find MM boring. Is BM good enough to chase mythic raiding, or is it just wicked out of balance. I ready on icy-veins that outside cooldowns the single target dps is not that good.

[Deleted]

Didn't felt it was needed to start an entire new thread so I will just tag along in this one. I am considering to switch to Hunter, but wanna stay ranged and find MM boring. Is BM good enough to chase mythic raiding, or is it just wicked out of balance. I ready on icy-veins that outside cooldowns the single target dps is not that good.

All hunter specs single target is rather low acros the board. BM is actualy higher then MM with proper artifact talents. What makes MM so much better for raids in the aoe padding with siderwinders and marked shot.

For mythic+ dungeons i wont even go in to it since it will cause to much drama. Both work, lets just say as much.

[Deleted]

All hunter specs single target is rather low acros the board. BM is actualy higher then MM with proper artifact talents. What makes MM so much better for raids in the aoe padding with siderwinders and marked shot.

For mythic+ dungeons i wont even go in to it since it will cause to much drama. Both work, lets just say as much.

Thanks for the response.

[jaimelannister]

Didn't felt it was needed to start an entire new thread so I will just tag along in this one. I am considering to switch to Hunter, but wanna stay ranged and find MM boring. Is BM good enough to chase mythic raiding, or is it just wicked out of balance. I ready on icy-veins that outside cooldowns the single target dps is not that good.

If it was the beginning of the expansion, I would tell you to stick with MM because to really push Mythic raiding, you want the top spec always. But if you're just getting into mythic raiding now, you're not in a top-end guild pushing content, and BM can perform just fine in that setting. I m 875ish ilvl as BM and I can easily pull > 300k on a single target fight like Nyth (in Heroic), which is more than enough to not stand out as a "problem dps". I can also pad with aoe on fights like the eye, but just not nearly as much as an MM can.