Kobach confirms Muslim Registry in the US

[Oktoberfest]

We're not calling Trump "Hitler". We're pointing out that he's using the same techniques as Hitler, to accomplish similar goals, and since we know, by the example of Hitler, how terrible that stuff gets, maybe we should cut that shit out now.

So he doesn't become Hitler 2.0.

This has nothing to do with party lines. If a Democrat was saying "we should register all these Muslims", I'd be saying the same "woah there, Hitler" stuff I'm saying now.

And again; you keep acting like we're comparing him to Hitler circa 1945. We aren't. We're comparing him to Hitler circa 1933. Different ballgame.

Hes not creating a Muslim Registry. That right there is a lie. You are using Hitler techniques. You are spreading disinformation that will create fear and inspire violence


I will say it again. the Left are far closer to being the Nazis of today than Trump and his supporters.

http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/trumps-...ore-fake-news/


Trump’s supposed ‘Muslim registry’ is just more fake news


The first thing to know about Donald Trump’s alleged proposal for a Muslim registry is that it isn’t a Muslim registry.

This has been lost in a freakout that has some brave souls already promising acts of civil disobedience to disrupt and overwhelm the prospective registry. The controversy tells us much more about how the media will cover the Trump administration — i.e., through the lens of fact-free hysteria — than about the administration’s immigration-enforcement agenda.
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[Orbitus]

Hes not creating a Muslim Registry. That right there is a lie. You are using Hitler techniques. You are spreading disinformation that will create fear and inspire violence


I will say it again. the Left are far closer to being the Nazis of today than Trump and his supporters.

http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/trumps-...ore-fake-news/


Trump’s supposed ‘Muslim registry’ is just more fake news


The first thing to know about Donald Trump’s alleged proposal for a Muslim registry is that it isn’t a Muslim registry.

This has been lost in a freakout that has some brave souls already promising acts of civil disobedience to disrupt and overwhelm the prospective registry. The controversy tells us much more about how the media will cover the Trump administration — i.e., through the lens of fact-free hysteria — than about the administration’s immigration-enforcement agenda.
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You used a FUCKING OPINION PIECE as proof that it is fake news? Not to mention, it is the fucking New York Post, owned by Rupert Murdoch, the same douche that owns Fox News.

[Reeve]

You used a FUCKING OPINION PIECE as proof that it is fake news? Not to mention, it is the fucking New York Post, owned by Rupert Murdoch, the same douche that owns Fox News.

An opinion piece in a tabloid newspaper.

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LOL ALrighty then

So when a Republican calls a Demcorat Hitler its hyperbole but when a Democrat calls a Republican Hitler its just serious bizness

All im hearing is excuses for spinning hypocrisy. Trump has not said anything that is more like Hitler than Obama.

If that's what you think, I don't think you've been listening. Trump has been talking about registrations of people from Muslim countries, "opening up libel laws" so that he can control media outlets that disagree with him, locking up his political opponents, has appointed Steve Bannon, a very Goebbels-like figure, to White House Chief Strategist, etc.

What did Obama do/say? That he was going to try to get everyone health insurance?

[Docturphil]

Are you just trolling at this point?

https://www.google.nl/search?q=%22If...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Not to mention all of the stuff like ''rough him up'' but at the very least he suggested the act of violence if he lost the electoral college.

What I've said about Trump not being known to be violent is correct. There are no known cases of him being violent. Just "threats". We all know Trump talks a lot of shit. But it's just that; talking shit. And it's a bit of a stretch to say that what he said about the second amendment was a threat. It sounds more like something he was saying to get people who own guns to support him; something that was not intended as a threat.

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They are, of course, suggesting that we've been down this road in recent history, know where it leads, and maybe we shouldn't tread the same ground all over again like we didn't learn that lesson the first go around.

Sure, but even if the Trump presidency was headed down that path, what are we to do at this point? Impeach him for getting elected? The American people voted him in. The electoral college chose him. That's how our system works. Should we rise up against our government because it's working as intended?

Give it a few years and everyone will get over it and realize that everything is just going to be business as usual. Gays will be fine. Mexicans will be fine. Trannys will be fine. Blacks will be fine. Muslims will be fine. Everyone will be fine. People need to just calm down. I've heard this "end of the world" horse shit before.

[Endus]

Hes not creating a Muslim Registry. That right there is a lie. You are using Hitler techniques. You are spreading disinformation that will create fear and inspire violence


I will say it again. the Left are far closer to being the Nazis of today than Trump and his supporters.

http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/trumps-...ore-fake-news/


Trump’s supposed ‘Muslim registry’ is just more fake news


The first thing to know about Donald Trump’s alleged proposal for a Muslim registry is that it isn’t a Muslim registry.

This has been lost in a freakout that has some brave souls already promising acts of civil disobedience to disrupt and overwhelm the prospective registry. The controversy tells us much more about how the media will cover the Trump administration — i.e., through the lens of fact-free hysteria — than about the administration’s immigration-enforcement agenda.
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I'll take your opinion piece from a tabloid, and counter with Trump's own stated words;

On ABC News’ This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump, "You did stir up a controversy with those comments over the database. Let's try to clear that up. Are you unequivocally now ruling out a database on all Muslims?"

"No, not at all," Trump responded. "I want a database for the refugees that -- if they come into the country. We have no idea who these people are. When the Syrian refugees are going to start pouring into this country, we don't know if they're ISIS, we don't know if it's a Trojan horse. And I definitely want a database and other checks and balances. We want to go with watchlists. We want to go with databases. And we have no choice."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...rican-muslims/

Emphasis mine.

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Sure, but even if the Trump presidency was headed down that path, what are we to do at this point? Impeach him for getting elected? The American people voted him in. The electoral college chose him. That's how our system works. Should we rise up against our government because it's working as intended?

No, you should point out how frighteningly close his rhetoric is to the rise of the Nazi regime, underscore how utterly unacceptable that makes certain policies, like this Muslim registry/database/whatever, and keep an eye like a hawk on him and his government's behaviour to pull out anything that starts to lean that way again, so that unlike Hitler, he can't keep it hidden away from a populace that's assuaged by his state-issued propaganda about how much there is to fear, and how we have to let him do whatever because he's the only one that can save you.

Y'know, like we're doing.

There's a huge ream of options between "violent rebellion" and "turning a blind eye".

[Reeve]

I'll take your opinion piece from a tabloid, and counter with Trump's own stated words;

On ABC News’ This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump, "You did stir up a controversy with those comments over the database. Let's try to clear that up. Are you unequivocally now ruling out a database on all Muslims?"

"No, not at all," Trump responded. "I want a database for the refugees that -- if they come into the country. We have no idea who these people are. When the Syrian refugees are going to start pouring into this country, we don't know if they're ISIS, we don't know if it's a Trojan horse. And I definitely want a database and other checks and balances. We want to go with watchlists. We want to go with databases. And we have no choice."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...rican-muslims/

He's talking about refugees there, not all immigrants from Muslim countries, let alone all Muslims.

[Endus]

He's talking about refugees there, not all immigrants from Muslim countries, let alone all Muslims.

This is why I included the reporter's question. The reporter asked if he would rule out a database on "all Muslims", explicitly. And Trump's response was "not at all".

Talking about first steps with refugees to try and make it seem more justified is skipping over the fact that he refused to rule out a database over religious purposes. If he just wanted to focus on refugees from countries where groups like ISIS are active, then he'd have insisted it was about that political upheaval, not their faith or ethnicity.

[Runenwächter]

how is a database for all refugees a muslim exclusive database endus?

how is a database for people entering the US from regions were groups that actively pursue goals to harm the US and its citizens a muslim exclusive registry?

the only reason this overwhelmingly affects muslims is because islam has correlation so strong with violence and terror that one can mistake one for the other.

[Endus]

how is a database for all refugees a muslim exclusive database endus?

Seriously. Read the reporter's question. It was specifically about a database for Muslims. Stop pretending Trump wasn't talking about such a database, when he was responding to a question about precisely that.

the only reason this overwhelmingly affects muslims is because islam has correlation so strong with violence and terror that one can mistake one for the other.

And this is flat-out wrong. Islam has no such "correlation". The violence you're talking about is primarily geopolitical, which is why it's largely restricted to one region of the world, and to recent emigrants from that region. And there are similar correlations with Christianity, for that matter.

[Deleted]

Could someone who is extremely opposed to Trump's proposal why this is a bad thing?

http://www.dw.com/en/islamic-state-r...ers/a-36389389

You remembered he's there for the AMERICANS, right? Not for a few muslims across the ocean because they want to come to America why? They come to Europe and ravage here already, so why would you want muslims over there with the risk of having more terrorist attacks?

Extreme left can only work when the whole world is extreme left, which I'd love aswell, but we're far from it. And if one society is the least extreme left in the world, it's muslim countries. It's ofcourse sad for all those individuals who want to come to the US with all the good meaning, but you can't make policies made on individuals. People who are opposed to this are thinking with their hearts, not with their heads. Politics is about thinking, not about being compassionate.

[Luxxor]

A
You do realize that dismissing every argument you don't agree with as this is anti-intellectual, right? I don't think Trump is Hitler, that direct comparison can never be made. However! One can most certainly look to history to discover a growing trend of parallels to what happened during the Nazi era. That is all I have done.

Apples and oranges are both fruits. Stalin and Trump are both white men. All sorts of "paralells" can be drawn when one reaches far enough. Doesnt make them logical or valid.

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Dude's spending way more effort on you than you deserve. All you ever post is vapid one-liner gotchas. Maybe find an argument that doesn't involve memes? hmmmmm?

Well thought out post. Thanks pot.

[Runenwächter]

Seriously. Read the reporter's question. It was specifically about a database for Muslims. Stop pretending Trump wasn't talking about such a database, when he was responding to a question about precisely that.

So, is the database being exclusive to muslims or are you misconstructing the interview? Because saying that one does not exclude a possibility is not the same as saying that one seeks to pursue exactly that one possibility.

And this is flat-out wrong. Islam has no such "correlation". The violence you're talking about is primarily geopolitical, which is why it's largely restricted to one region of the world, and to recent emigrants from that region. And there are similar correlations with Christianity, for that matter.

Yes it has. And fuck that noise, the attacks in Paris and Brussels were largely homegrown jihadists. Born and raised in europe in an isolated counterculture of three generations that is both deeply racist and suppremacist towards the native population.

And you know why that is? Because that book is like a supermarket. Sure, you have a wholefood section of peace and love in there too. But that isnt the majority of things on offer. Violence is always on sale, every day of the week with a sweet promise for a discount on eternal life. Lets also not forget the ethics of their sales representatives, because for every honest one that gives you a hint about how shit some of the ideas on sale are, you get a dozen that promise you a kingdom beyond the rainbow if you buy their brand of shit. The whole company isnt exactly fond of sales ethics and doing exactly zilch to better themselves on that front.

Also there are similar correlations with Christianity? How did you get that idea? Because I dont know how it is over there in the US or Canada, but where I live we have data that absolutely contradicts this. Here is what our government report on the phenomenon says: The more religious migrants or people with migrant background are as muslims the more prominent their tendency towards violence and the more likely they are to discriminate against others on the basis of their religion or ethnicity (in and out group violene). The same does not hold true for christians and jews, in fact the correlation is just the exact opposite. The more religious they are the less likely they are to participate in violence or targeted out group violence against other groups.
Lets not even talk about how culture and belonging to certain religious groups affects how people do in education and the job market.

[Docturphil]

No, you should point out how frighteningly close his rhetoric is to the rise of the Nazi regime, underscore how utterly unacceptable that makes certain policies, like this Muslim registry/database/whatever, and keep an eye like a hawk on him and his government's behaviour to pull out anything that starts to lean that way again, so that unlike Hitler, he can't keep it hidden away from a populace that's assuaged by his state-issued propaganda about how much there is to fear, and how we have to let him do whatever because he's the only one that can save you.

Y'know, like we're doing.

There's a huge ream of options between "violent rebellion" and "turning a blind eye".

Yes, and that's what we're doing. Like I said in a previous post, he's under intense scrutiny which would make it damn near impossible for anything disastrous to happen.

While I strongly disagree that Trump has the potential to do serious harm to this country, I believe people should voice their opinions and concerns. I still think they're wrong, but it at least helps to keep him in check.

[Elegiac]

Tell you what, Trumpets.

You can have your 'immigrant registry' if we get a national gun registry first. Compromise.

[Tijuana]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN13B05C



So it seems now we are entering the days of a fascist regime. Registering people just based on their faith. Welcome to the land of the free.

Did you even read what you quoted? "immigrants from Muslim countries"

I watched Hard Ball last night and they did the same thing you are doing. They disregarded that it was a geographic area of origin idea, and COMPLETELY disregarded the fact that it was only for immigrants.

Even though this is just an idea, and a bill would have to be passed, at least judge it fairly. The idea proposed, which I doubt would be passed with that language, would mean that if you are a Christian from Yemen, and you are here on a green card, you would be on the registry. There has been zero talk of registering US citizens of any kind, unless you count lefty talking heads.

[Runenwächter]

Tell you what, Trumpets.

You can have your 'immigrant registry' if we get a national gun registry first. Compromise.

both should happen. but to demand that one has to come after the other? please, on what basis. how are these even linked? that is just childish.

[Endus]

Did you even read what you quoted? "immigrants from Muslim countries"

I watched Hard Ball last night and they did the same thing you are doing. They disregarded that it was a geographic area of origin idea, and COMPLETELY disregarded the fact that it was only for immigrants.

And yet, your own quote there relies on their faith as the primary identifier.

If you meant "Middle Eastern countries", why not say that, instead? And even then, it's not really defensible, since not every country in that region is presenting these kinds of issues.

In the end, given how rare terrorism is even in those countries, the whole thing is kind of like having a "male registry" to help track men to help combat rape. Which is an asinine concept, yes? It's the same argument, though.

[Elegiac]

both should happen. but to demand that one has to come after the other? please, on what basis. how are these even linked? that is just childish.

Call it a good faith gesture on the GOP's part.

[Magical Mudcrab]

And this is flat-out wrong. Islam has no such "correlation". The violence you're talking about is primarily geopolitical, which is why it's largely restricted to one region of the world, and to recent emigrants from that region. And there are similar correlations with Christianity, for that matter.

Religion being one of the world's major motivators for violence aside, it is a mixture of geopolitics and push-back against social development in many so-called Islamic countries rather than just being an Islam issue. However the world doesn't want to deal with this transitory state that the Islamic world is in, and American foreign policy has most definitely not helped this process.

Before anyone goes on a tangent and assumes that I am in favour of ethnic-specific registries, I will explicitly say that I am not in favour of the proposed registry. There isn't a moral responsibility for a country not to remove illegal immigrants and there isn't anything particularly wrong with keeping recent immigrants on temporary watch-lists if they come from areas of the world known to have higher levels of radicalization than others. However, keeping a registry of people in which the only criterion for being on it is their religion is at best divisive and feeds into tribalistic ideals by othering Muslims, and at worst is an exploitable list of individuals which can be used to carry out violence against (ie: hackers steal the database entries, disseminate the list to hate groups). Nothing is gained from a registry like this.

[Hopebringer]

Someone pulled out the Nazi card quick on this one.

"Too bad you missed the "In 2010, he helped draft an Arizona law that required state and local officials to check the immigration status of individuals stopped by police. Parts of the law, which was fiercely opposed by Hispanic and civil rights groups, were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011.

Kobach was also the architect of a 2013 Kansas law requiring voters to provide proof-of-citizenship documents, such as birth certificates or U.S. passports, when registering for the first time. A U.S. appeals court blocked that law after challenges from civil rights groups."

Seems like the checks and balances put in place are working to keep it the land of the free?
Or maybe you are just spinning something so you can pull the Nazi card out?

I disagree with the police checking every non-white person's papers. This should be something that should be taken care of at the Federal level.

I do agree in obtaining proof-of-citizenship documents when people are registering to vote for the first time. I don't see how this is a violation by any means and should be applied to ANY person registering to vote.