So far, No Holy or Disc have been in a Helya Mythic kill

[spiritsurge]

Considering that Blizzard even updated Plea icon color to reflect its costs, I doubt it's going to change. It all comes down to PW:R basically locking Disc in place for several seconds - which leaves them open to various boss mechanics. You're almost ready for Light's Wrath, just one more Radiance... well shit, Brambles. It can get incredibly frustrating, as no other healer requires such preparation for their raid cooldown.

The worst feeling as Disc. "Hold on just one more and I can burst- welp I gotta move" if you compare Disc to any other healer in the game their preparation for mechanics is a night and day difference. It goes from "I gotta build up my stuff on all these different people" as a Disc priest to "Lemme just hit this one button real quick"

Not that I don't enjoy the level of difficulty that Disc has, for me doing well as Disc feels better than doing well as any other healer. But sometimes it can just bite you in the ass real hard. It's honestly kind of strange the amount of skill Disc requires because of how dumbed down a lot of classes became.

[rosastolemyseat]

This means Disc absolutely needs Moonkins for proper healing? Nice synergy. And this is the point. Priests need help to heal on as much as other healers. And that is an issue.

In what world did I say that they need a Balance druid for proper healing? If you can't comprehend what I said, I'll try to make it simple. No healer needs innervate. If no healer needs innervate, give it to the healer that can make the best use of it. Which should be your disc, since he can utilize it at least 3x better than any other healer.

[Muddysmind]

Sounds like a L2P issue.

lol or a strat issue, but go ahead and blindly criticize people who are just here for moral support of their fellow healers.
You keep bringing that quality to the forums.

[Dehooka]

Biggest flaw to holy is lack of mobility

[Hugginz]

I'll always remember when Paragon killed Garrosh heroic mode 10 man world first with 1 healer.

A holy priest which, at the time, was considered an un-playable spec.

And on top of it, he played it with a troll-Unicorn UI.

[KaPe]

I'll always remember when Paragon killed Garrosh heroic mode 10 man world first with 1 healer.

A holy priest which, at the time, was considered an un-playable spec.

And on top of it, he played it with a troll-Unicorn UI.

Except back then, DPS classes could bring raid cooldowns which basically counted as another healer. Currently, there's only a handful of those left and they're much weaker.

[Velerios]

Sounds like a L2P issue.

Yes sure, the best guild in the world definitively needs L2P, for sure. Sorry, but the problem is mobility, and that's something you can't L2P, that's simply shitty design by blizzard.

My solution for a simple fix: Blizzard should make Prayer of Mending instant (ironically blizzard give it a 1,5 sek casttime for PvP, not PvE, and now there's a talent to remove this in PvP only), and make Binding Heal allows move while casting.

[Deleted]

I'll always remember when Paragon killed Garrosh heroic mode 10 man world first with 1 healer.

A holy priest which, at the time, was considered an un-playable spec.

And on top of it, he played it with a troll-Unicorn UI.

This is wrong, holy priests was not unplayable.

Holy Priest was good back then, he was just getting sniped by all other Priests and it was clearly explained back then. If you had no healers snipe your hots and everything you could go nuts as holy.

Explains why I beat you on pretty much every encounter without innervate and less 10 ilvls.

I also gave you a handicap by removing dps from the equation.

On which encounters? I seriously fucking hope we are not talking some emerald nightmare mythic farm shit or even heroic.

You certainly can "beat" your healers if they are either bad players or actually let you pad, but if you look at warcraftlogs, LITERALLY every single disc who is parsing 1-30 has gotten a bunch of innervates.

There is no discussion about that here, disc needs innervate to pull really high logs.

This applies to every healer btw.

[KaPe]

No other healer has 0 cooldown on their tranquility-esque spell though.

I mean, did you honestly believe you can get all the best things in world for free?

Assuming you mean Penance, the "cooldown" comes through Atonement spreading, which is also balanced by being mana intensive. In order to match Tranquility, you'd have to drain half of your mana bar - or use an Innervate. And preferably get +50% penance proc.

When it works, it's all good. But there are times when it's extremely frustrating, making you waste a ton of mana for almost nothing.

"Funny" how Holy has similar issues. No setup times, but just as vulnerable to boss mechanics - with the added bonus of 3 minute cooldown. No other class has to deal with such limitations - all other raid cooldowns are instant or allow movement.

[Negato]

"Funny" how Holy has similar issues. No setup times, but just as vulnerable to boss mechanics - with the added bonus of 3 minute cooldown. No other class has to deal with such limitations - all other raid cooldowns are instant or allow movement.

Very well said. One of the biggest reasons why you wouldn't want to bring a Priest at the moment. If you can get similar or better HPS from a R Druid (who has better personal CDS to assist with survival) why would you chose to bring the healer with the worse raid cooldown, which has a high probability of getting canceled or cut short and potentially wiping your raid. I would really like to see Blizzard address this. Back when Aspect of the Fox was a thing it was all fine and dandy, but there is no justication for why Divine Hymn should be the only channeled raid cooldown.

[Anastacy]

Eh. I got sat on Guarm because apparently Holy Paladin is tons better at handling Flame Lick damage, and I'll likely be sat for Helya.

#feelsgoodman being "forced" to play Priest for another expansion, despite expressing to guild leaders that I wanted to play Druid.

Oh well.

[Catbug]

Sounds like you should find another guild.

[Anastacy]

Sounds like you should find another guild.

Eh. I've got a really good work proposition in January (nothing guaranteed yet), and it wouldn't allow me to raid at a "competitive" level anymore, so I'm not too worried about it. But yes, that's the general idea.

[PosPosPos]

On which encounters? I seriously fucking hope we are not talking some emerald nightmare mythic farm shit or even heroic.

You certainly can "beat" your healers if they are either bad players or actually let you pad, but if you look at warcraftlogs, LITERALLY every single disc who is parsing 1-30 has gotten a bunch of innervates.

There is no discussion about that here, disc needs innervate to pull really high logs.

This applies to every healer btw.

I was comparing no innervate to no innervate against the logs of the person I quoted.

Try to follow the context, won't you?

- - - Updated - - -

Assuming you mean Penance, the "cooldown" comes through Atonement spreading, which is also balanced by being mana intensive. In order to match Tranquility, you'd have to drain half of your mana bar - or use an Innervate. And preferably get +50% penance proc.

It's 1/3, and no, you don't need PotDS, you just need to Penance, PTW and Smite to outheal Tranquility.

When it works, it's all good. But there are times when it's extremely frustrating, making you waste a ton of mana for almost nothing.

"Funny" how Holy has similar issues. No setup times, but just as vulnerable to boss mechanics - with the added bonus of 3 minute cooldown. No other class has to deal with such limitations - all other raid cooldowns are instant or allow movement.

I know people like to just group in and walk into raids without communicating, but you do know that if one opens their precious mouth to communicate when they are going to heal or use cooldowns, others tend to not snipe you unnecessarily? Yeah, it's totally some novel concept.

- - - Updated - - -

You beat me on what? I never posted any logs. Im not playing as Discipline. The difference between us is 5 ilvls. I easily reach 300k HPS on any fight without innervate.
this is some random semi PuG from me:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&fight=14

But it is not the point. The point is, Priest are "slightly" below other healers when it comes to pure HPS or raid CDs. I know you can top Healing in semi PuGs. I do to. The problem is, any random druid or shaman with similar gear would destroy both of us when played correctly.

You never posted any logs, but your logs are public - you lost to me on pretty much every single encounter when I didn't have innervate.

When you can outperform me, you can come back and talk down to me. And no, I generally beat most druids and shamans, even if they are at 880+ ilvl when I am at 860+ ilvl. My guild's holy priest is amazing too, and can easily do the same.

What you are doing is here is setting the ceiling where you are standing, and refusing to accept there are plenty of other players who can play better than you as some kind of defense mechanism.

[KaPe]

I know people like to just group in and walk into raids without communicating, but you do know that if one opens their precious mouth to communicate when they are going to heal or use cooldowns, others tend to not snipe you unnecessarily? Yeah, it's totally some novel concept.

... What are you even talking about, other than being condescending asshole? What does sniping have to do with anything? You get targeted by boss mechanics during Atonement set up stage, you won't be firing off your "Tranquility". It has nothing to do with "people like me", "communication" or anything. You're stationary for 10+ seconds casting Radiance, otherwise none of your spell combos will be anywhere near raid cooldown level. Your only other option is Rapture + shield spam, which is much slower and less effective. Otherwise, you have to cancel your "Tranquility" or risk getting killed by boss.

You can communicate that, shuffle your raid cooldowns around, but there's nothing preventing another boss mechanic forcing you to move again later. It's an obvious drawback, but you act like it's the only thing keeping Disc in check - and obviously, only *you* are the good enough to overcome this issue.

[PosPosPos]

... What are you even talking about, other than being condescending asshole? What does sniping have to do with anything? You get targeted by boss mechanics during Atonement set up stage, you won't be firing off your "Tranquility". It has nothing to do with "people like me", "communication" or anything. You're stationary for 10+ seconds casting Radiance, otherwise none of your spell combos will be anywhere near raid cooldown level. Your only other option is Rapture + shield spam, which is much slower and less effective. Otherwise, you have to cancel your "Tranquility" or risk getting killed by boss.

You can communicate that, shuffle your raid cooldowns around, but there's nothing preventing another boss mechanic forcing you to move again later. It's an obvious drawback, but you act like it's the only thing keeping Disc in check - and obviously, only *you* are the good enough to overcome this issue.

Yeah, it's like there are only a handful of disc priests like me doing mythic cenarius who don't seem to have this problem. Oh, and before you talk about others being "condescending assholes", why don't you reflect on how you are applying your performance as the ceiling of all disc priests' performance?

"bla bla bla I can't do it, so everyone else who say they can are condescending assholes and lying through their teeth."
"It's not my fault, it's the spec's *ignores the hundreds of other disc priests on the encounter doing perfectly fine*"

I don't have problems on stuff like Brambles, because I just self-cast PW:S with Body and Soul specced, move during the gcd, then continue blanketing PWR. Shocking new next level strategies, I know.

[Deleted]

So can you tell me what exactly will they use innervate for? Rejuv/Flash Heal spam? 5x chain heal?



Says the one who's kicking up a fuss over using raid cooldowns as they are available. Why aren't you backing up your big talk not using Divine Hymn?

Like, omg all these parses keeping up with or utterly destroying you without innervate, and lesser gear too, by a pretty big margin:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&type=healing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6&type=healing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6&type=healing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...5&type=healing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&type=healing - has innervate, but I had so much mana left at the end of the fight so it doesn't really count

There are other fights that nobody recorded because I did those with pugs, but saying innervate is the only way disc can keep up with other healers? That's just because you have never seen a world larger than the "sky" that's in your well.


So, any last words?

All these logs are from Heroic/Normal.. So.. They're worth jack shit.

[PosPosPos]

All these logs are from Heroic/Normal.. So.. They're worth jack shit.

The guy I am comparing to has only done Heroics and Normals, so you can tell him the "jack shit" part instead. I would have compared mythic logs, but it's a pity he hasn't done mythic content.

[Anastacy]

Priests are fucking angsty this expansion.

Jesus fuck.

[Djriff]

Honestly I think it has less to do with holy/disc being bad for it and shadow just being insanely good on the fight.