Why are people here dismissive about Legion's complaints?

Deleted · 2016-11-23, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by FelPlague

so like how loot has allways been? "doing a raid, shit my gear dident drop, fuck"
people claim the legendary system in legion is bullshit, but then say vanilla,bc, and wraths are the best, when they are pretty much the exact same
random drop of loot, hope you get it, if you dont well shit

Except that now gear can roll to be significantly stronger, which means it has to drop, roll higher than the standard version, and roll a socket preferably. That, and legendaries are very unbalanced, some are virtually useless, while others are so mandatory they should have been part of the class from the start.

That much is pretty much fact, how important it is to you is probably up to how you view the game. I don't mind legendaries as much since I'm not pushing mythic raids (Logistics, not a skill issue), and I'm more concerned about the general direction of warlocks. Small tweaks would go a long way to make them feel better though.

**FelPlague** · 2016-11-23, 12:42 AM

this explains everything perfectly

**plato13** · 2016-11-23, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by FelPlague

so like how loot has allways been? "doing a raid, shit my gear dident drop, fuck"
people claim the legendary system in legion is bullshit, but then say vanilla,bc, and wraths are the best, when they are pretty much the exact same
random drop of loot, hope you get it, if you dont well shit

legendarys in vanilla were not realy good. thunderfury was a okish tank weapon or glorified offhand for rogues. they were more about prestige then power.

and in burning crusade you got the legendarys when the progression race was over, and the drop chance for both was pretty high, wich means basicly every competetive guild had almost all their rogues/warriors geared with glaives when sunwell came out.

and yes if your legendary gets outclassed by a ilvl840 epic for raiding its trash.

**Shadowman 747** · 2016-11-23, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by plato13

legendarys in vanilla were not realy good. thunderfury was a okish tank weapon or glorified offhand for rogues. they were more about prestige then power.

and in burning crusade you got the legendarys when the progression race was over, and the drop chance for both was pretty high, wich means basicly every competetive guild had almost all their rogues/warriors geared with glaives when sunwell came out.

and yes if your legendary gets outclassed by a ilvl840 epic for raiding its trash.

Thunderfury was BiS for tanks until Sunwell when it was nerfed, and it woulda been BiS until the Wotlk prepatch if it wasn't nerfed. its proc generated the most threat out of any ability or passive in the game. it is literally the best weapon in WoW history.

These new legendaries aren't all that. they're usually BiS pieces that offer special bonuses. The damage and utility required for even mythic raiding is lower than bis, and legendaries are totally optional to clear content. You act like they're gamebreakingly powerful, but the fact is, they aren't.

**xanzul** · 2016-11-23, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gahmuret

I see a few options.

- either people are filthy FOTM rerollers or just happen to play a class that benefits from the current state of affairs, i.e. happens to be OP atm

- people are brainwashed by some "positive attitude" bullshit and are triggered to oppose any negative opinions

- people have had a ridiculous luck streak with legendaries and other RNG procs and drops and are blind enough to believe it's the standard state of affairs for everyone

- Emperor's New Clothes: people are fanboys who refuse to admit that there could be anything wrong with something they have kept praising for years

- Most people just have a bad taste with content

- All of the above

Most of the people who have been called fanboys in this thread have listed their issues with Legion in the very posts people are quoting as examples of "blind fanboyism". Just because someone doesn't share your issues with the game doesn't mean they don't have issues of their own they want addressed.

**Relapses** · 2016-11-23, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by KrazyK923

Yeah this is a load of horse shit.

Artifact Knowledge, which is absolutely required to get any kind of worthy AP later on, has nothing to do with skill or accountability. Its a time grind. Class imbalance isn't suddenly about player skill or accountability. Right now there are several class and specs that are just bad. Boring mechanics gameplay isn't about skill or accountability. Notice how most of the people aren't talking about not knowing how to play or not putting out good numbers, its about the gameplay being not fun.

You are the perfect reason why people are quitting. Completely discounting any complaints as people being bad is the height of childishness and immaturity.

Calm down. I usually agree with you, I have no idea why you're going off on a tangent here.

First off, I'm not excusing Legion's flaws or lauding it as above approach. Legion has plenty of valid criticisms to be lodged against it. I mean fuck, I quit the fucking game because I simply don't have time to play it at a level that would allow me to remain competitive anymore. But what the post I quoted was indicating is that many of the emotionally charged criticisms people have about Legion are based on subjective issues rather than constructive ones. I personally feel like the discussion of what can be improved about Legion would be far more productive if we removed emotion from the equation and focused more on the real problems and potential solutions.

Further, the hivemind mentality of this forum is kind of depressing at times... I have no idea why you'd want to defend this. Nobody wants to have a discussion. They want to pick sides. Anybody who doesn't agree that Legion is irreversibly flawed is a "Blizzard white knight." Anybody who does just quotes one another and nods accordingly as they circlejerk themselves into the stratosphere. It's sad.

**Lane** · 2016-11-23, 05:25 AM

As an altoholic, I've found that most of the player complaints about classes/specs are justified. I can only assume anyone who disagrees has either never played said class/spec, hasn't compared it to other class/specs, or is simply a masochist. :P

I wanted to like artifacts. I love the concept of a consistent weapon, the lore behind it, etc., but unfortunately the execution with weapon-specific AP (should've been pooled) and AK not being account wide has made it problematic. Initially, I wanted artifacts to continue beyond this expansion, but not with the current system.

The zones for the most part are nice and I have enjoyed the class hall campaigns aside from the oppressive gating.

Edit: Forgot to add that WQs are a step in the right direction of offering end game content outside of instances.

As an aside, you also have to take into consideration that MMO-C isn't necessarily a good representation of the average WoW player. My observation's been that the active posters here are predominantly mid-to-hardcore (even those who consider themselves casual) and that's reflected in the threads.

**Akka** · 2016-11-23, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Beefsquatch

Anytime it gets brought up you guys tear the OP a new one. Why?

Fanboyism, the bane of all critical thinking.

Deleted · 2016-11-23, 09:26 AM

It's quite simple really. People are different, they play in different ways, and they like different things.

What for one might be a gamebreaking issue, is the best feature of an expansion for another.

When one comes to complain about it, the other feels his fun-providing feature is at risk, so he defends it.

And since it's the interwebz, people use discussion mechanics that are not tolerated in RL. Mostly dismissal. If you're on the attacking side of discussion, you can just call your opposition "fanboys". If you're the defender, you'll call them "whiners". That dismisses their argumentation without addressing it at all. And if that fails, you can identify the group your opponent belongs to, and dismiss it as a whole ("scrub casuals" or "entitled riders" or whatnot). That failing, you can check someone's wowprogress/armory and attack them directly.

It's not a WoW problem, it's an internet problem, and you can't fix it - you can only try to not be the problem yourself.

**Seranthor** · 2016-11-23, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by TheVaryag

Because these forums and this site, Is heavily filled with blizzard fanboys, which Includes the people that run the site, and It's Admins which may or may not have a personal bias towards the subject you're speaking of on here and will yell at you for that reason. Just like the posts above, they want to ignore the problems normal people see, and live In blissful Ignorance. I've lived In blissful ignorance of WoW for 10 years before I was banned for something I didn't do, and still am. And that's opened my eyes to the problems WoW has Including the bannings left and right, but that's another thing entirely.

Shortly, people here are giant fanatics about WoW and they will have their hands to their ears as they hear criticism, and will report/downvote/remove your post just to shutdown criticism.

You are really going to have to stop lying... anyone that checks your started threads history can clearly see that you are lying here. You were righteously banned.

**JaceDraccus** · 2016-11-23, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by JemiS

And yet people liked Vanilla through WotLK. Crazy, huh?

So you are saying there were absolutely no complaints whatsoever about gameplay at all in Vanilla, BC, and Wrath?

I highly doubt that.

**Pickynerd** · 2016-11-23, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Beefsquatch

So I took a little month break because of how frustrated I was with the actual gameplay in Legion (class gameplay) and recently noticed many others on the WoW forums feel the same. There is a serious problem with classes that needs a big redesign imo to fix. Not to mention blizz ignoring the shit out of players (except mages so it seems?) so my question is, whys everyone here on MMOC ignoring that issue?

Legion is probably the most content and lorenrich expansion, yet it's totally ruined by class design choices and the retarded AP/AK system that makes respecting and rerolling a pain in the arse. Anytime it gets brought up you guys tear the OP a new one. Why?

I am glad to be out of the waahh loop. The AK/AP was meant to slow people down, while the expansion fleshes out. I am an altaholic; however I do enjoy the dedication of of my main being the focus for now. Not long ago, having 1 of every class being level 100 I almost felt like I had to do Garrison missions every day and even with the add-on it took forever of just sending followers on missions, before doing any real content, or anything I enjoyed.

Other than that, AP has gutted the reroll "fotm" which is nice imo.

**Akka** · 2016-11-23, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by JaceDraccus

So you are saying there were absolutely no complaints whatsoever about gameplay at all in Vanilla, BC, and Wrath?

I highly doubt that.

So "liked" = "absolutely no complaints whatsoever" ?

That's so retarded as a twist and putting words in the mouth of someone, it just shows just how much bad faith you're having here.

Deleted · 2016-11-23, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheVaryag

Because these forums and this site, Is heavily filled with blizzard fanboys, which Includes the people that run the site, and It's Admins which may or may not have a personal bias towards the subject you're speaking of on here and will yell at you for that reason. Just like the posts above, they want to ignore the problems normal people see, and live In blissful Ignorance. I've lived In blissful ignorance of WoW for 10 years before I was banned for something I didn't do, and still am. And that's opened my eyes to the problems WoW has Including the bannings left and right, but that's another thing entirely.

Shortly, people here are giant fanatics about WoW and they will have their hands to their ears as they hear criticism, and will report/downvote/remove your post just to shutdown criticism.

I see a lot more bitter and spoiled people like yourself complaining about every single thing and then when people disagree you go nuts calling that person retarded for not agreeing with you.

**prwraith** · 2016-11-23, 11:32 AM

I just can't get over how little "legion" I seem to find. You'd expect there to be ya'know a legion. An area of near infinite numbers of demons, something I couldn't overcome if i tried. And yet the most demons we see is during the opening scenario and even that was pretty underwhelming.

**lazzy** · 2016-11-23, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by potis

Apart from AP farming which is retarded, the game is the same as it always has been.

Class 1 :WAHH I WANNA BE THE BEST WITHOUT EFFORT.

Class 2: I AM THE BEST WITHOUT EFFORT, DONT NERF, OH FUCK NERF, WAHHH

Class 3:TOP GUILDS DONT TAKE MORE THAN 1 OF MY CLASS IN THEIR RAIDS, WAHHHH

Therefor, there isnt anything different, just people whining cause they can.

Yes, AK/AP system is retarded, it should become account wide ASAP, but it will never cause they probably believe they would make you sub more for playing your alt, than quitting.

Problem with WoW is the community, not the game.

Because top guild 1 stacks class x times, for whatever valid reason, guild 3000 and guild 5000 players believes it affect then somehow instead of simply focusing on doing the best they can on their own class, in their own guild.

You missed the part where

- Legendary RNG is retarded as hell. Was also bugged where people got 3 when everyone else has zero. On top of that you could get a Legendary and it be complete shit and get your increase luck reset.

- The DPS gap was even further exacerbated because of said Legendary items making your DPS skyrocket.

- RNG titanforge shit killed the feeling of finding upgrades. "Cool i got a new chest!" "Ah shit it's only a 840 roll" meanwhile another person in the party got lucky and rolled a 855 helm. It just feels like shit.

- AP/AK killed alts which is hilarious.

- PvP in Legion is atrocious worst its probably ever been. Which is hilarious because they made it seem like they gave a shit after abandoning it after WOTLK.

- They gutted some classes and changed their entire playstyle. Take Hunters for example they used to be the most played and enjoyable classes now they're like the 4th most played because Blizzard changed the entire class. Also it's ridiculous the state Affliction Warlocks are in. They still have Gold traits from Alpha that were never changed after they removed the NPC that spawned to make them work.

It's not the same as always. Legion could of been an amazing xpac. The leveling was great the concepts were cool but they went the stupid route and added RNG to everything that effects performance in a raiding environment.

There is no world where someone who plays 20 hours a week should be outperforming someone of equal skill level who plays 40+ hours a week because they got 'lucky'.

**SirBeef** · 2016-11-23, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Pickynerd

I am glad to be out of the waahh loop. The AK/AP was meant to slow people down, while the expansion fleshes out. I am an altaholic; however I do enjoy the dedication of of my main being the focus for now. Not long ago, having 1 of every class being level 100 I almost felt like I had to do Garrison missions every day and even with the add-on it took forever of just sending followers on missions, before doing any real content, or anything I enjoyed.

Other than that, AP has gutted the reroll "fotm" which is nice imo.

I have 12 110 characters. I have no delusions about them being anywhere close to my main in terms of AP/AK progression. They are alts. I have two that can raid heroics and possibly pitch in in a mythic fight or two if we need a different DPS. Maybe. The others are WQ heroes, can be LFR heroes, possibly pugging normals if I have the time. But they only have one gold talent, all that is needed for normals. I never though for a moment I could have more than one or two alts comparable to my main in any expansion except for CATA when gear was plentiful and leveling was cake.

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