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  1. #441
    At least hunters, mages and shadow priests got some blue posts explaining what they are doing with the classes and why they are doing it. That makes me happy, because those classes obviously have huge problems, unlike warlocks...

  2. #442
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by noaim View Post
    At least hunters, mages and shadow priests got some blue posts explaining what they are doing with the classes and why they are doing it. That makes me happy, because those classes obviously have huge problems, unlike warlocks...
    Hunters and mages have had a lot of big mechanical changes to the way their specs play in 7.1.5 though, so it's understandable they would address this. Destruction is the most changed warlock spec so far and it's relatively minor things with talent swaps. I'm expecting more significant changes to affliction and demonology at which point we might warrant our own block of text, but right now the changes aren't there for them to comment on.

  3. #443
    Deleted
    the next wave of lock changes

    Empowered Life Tap Life Tap increases your damage dealt by 10% for 10 15 sec. Warlock - Level 30 Talent.

    PvP Talents

    Curse of Shadows Increases the damage taken by all magical damage over time effects by 50% for 10 sec. Affliction Warlock - Tier 5 PvP Talent. 4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. Instant. 20 sec cooldown. 30 sec cooldown.

    Fel Fissure Chaos Bolt creates an eruption of Felfire under the target, dealing Shadow damage every 1 sec and reducing all healing received by 50% for 10 15 sec sec to all enemies within 5 yards of the initial target. Destruction Warlock - Tier 5 PvP Talent.

    Firestone Restores 2 Soul Shards and increases your spell critical strike chance by 100% for 7 sec. Destruction Warlock - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Instant. 45 sec cooldown. 25 sec cooldown.

    Soulshatter Instantly clears all of your damage over time effects on the nearest 5 enemies within 40 yards, dealing 10% of their total health in Shadow damage. For each enemy hit by Soulshatter, you gain 1 Soul Shard and 10% spell haste for 8 sec. Stacks up to 5 times. Affliction Warlock - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Instant. 60 sec cooldown. 100 yd range. Instant. 60 sec cooldown.

  4. #444
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by killeer View Post
    the next wave of lock changes

    Empowered Life Tap Life Tap increases your damage dealt by 10% for 10 15 sec. Warlock - Level 30 Talent.

    PvP Talents

    Curse of Shadows Increases the damage taken by all magical damage over time effects by 50% for 10 sec. Affliction Warlock - Tier 5 PvP Talent. 4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. Instant. 20 sec cooldown. 30 sec cooldown.

    Fel Fissure Chaos Bolt creates an eruption of Felfire under the target, dealing Shadow damage every 1 sec and reducing all healing received by 50% for 10 15 sec sec to all enemies within 5 yards of the initial target. Destruction Warlock - Tier 5 PvP Talent.

    Firestone Restores 2 Soul Shards and increases your spell critical strike chance by 100% for 7 sec. Destruction Warlock - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Instant. 45 sec cooldown. 25 sec cooldown.

    Soulshatter Instantly clears all of your damage over time effects on the nearest 5 enemies within 40 yards, dealing 10% of their total health in Shadow damage. For each enemy hit by Soulshatter, you gain 1 Soul Shard and 10% spell haste for 8 sec. Stacks up to 5 times. Affliction Warlock - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Instant. 60 sec cooldown. 100 yd range. Instant. 60 sec cooldown.

    "Patch 7.1.5 PTR - Build 23109
    The changes in tonight's build are not actually on the PTR yet. This is an incomplete snapshot of some upcoming changes."

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by killeer View Post
    the next wave of lock changes

    Empowered Life Tap Life Tap increases your damage dealt by 10% for 10 15 sec. Warlock - Level 30 Talent.

    PvP Talents

    Curse of Shadows Increases the damage taken by all magical damage over time effects by 50% for 10 sec. Affliction Warlock - Tier 5 PvP Talent. 4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. Instant. 20 sec cooldown. 30 sec cooldown.

    Fel Fissure Chaos Bolt creates an eruption of Felfire under the target, dealing Shadow damage every 1 sec and reducing all healing received by 50% for 10 15 sec sec to all enemies within 5 yards of the initial target. Destruction Warlock - Tier 5 PvP Talent.

    Firestone Restores 2 Soul Shards and increases your spell critical strike chance by 100% for 7 sec. Destruction Warlock - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Instant. 45 sec cooldown. 25 sec cooldown.

    Soulshatter Instantly clears all of your damage over time effects on the nearest 5 enemies within 40 yards, dealing 10% of their total health in Shadow damage. For each enemy hit by Soulshatter, you gain 1 Soul Shard and 10% spell haste for 8 sec. Stacks up to 5 times. Affliction Warlock - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Instant. 60 sec cooldown. 100 yd range. Instant. 60 sec cooldown.
    Lo and behold.. They did listen to some feedback.
    I am speechless.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Firon View Post
    Hunters and mages have had a lot of big mechanical changes to the way their specs play in 7.1.5 though, so it's understandable they would address this. Destruction is the most changed warlock spec so far and it's relatively minor things with talent swaps. I'm expecting more significant changes to affliction and demonology at which point we might warrant our own block of text, but right now the changes aren't there for them to comment on.
    They dont have to comment on changes though, it would be enough if they comment on what issues they recognize and are planning to fix.

  7. #447
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by noaim View Post
    They dont have to comment on changes though, it would be enough if they comment on what issues they recognize and are planning to fix.
    Honestly, I don't think they've figured it out yet. This could be a good sign since they might be thinking of things and listening to feedback. I want to hope that's the case anyway. If not I'm jumping over to my ele shaman alt who actually is getting some love.

  8. #448
    Deleted
    At least the change to Norgannon's Foresight will make it really good for destro, unlike it´s current version.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Firon View Post
    Honestly, I don't think they've figured it out yet. This could be a good sign since they might be thinking of things and listening to feedback. I want to hope that's the case anyway. If not I'm jumping over to my ele shaman alt who actually is getting some love.
    One can hope, I mostly reacted to the following:

    Additionally, Mind Sear is replaced with a new passive effect that allows Mind Flay to fulfill the same purpose. Shadow already has significant multi-target gameplay from the desire to maintain two damage-over-time effects on each target (a process which being is made smoother by allowing Void Bolt to extend DoTs on multiple targets at once).

    Voidbolt, being an instant cast. Meanwhile, we are slowcasting Seed, to keep the only dot we can actually spec so that we dont have to maintain it, up on different targets, but only after we deal some damage to the mob we cast said Seed on. The rest of the time we basically spend on redotting and dumping shards, if there are more than 3 targets (2 if specced into the lovely Soul Effigy).

    I mean, what they are saying is, as I read it, that just rolling dots on multiple targets is boring, so here you have the ability to aoe-refresh them with an instant cast. At the same time, they thought it was a good idea to make affliction single target depend on...rolling dots on multiple targets. Maybe that is the reason for Soul Effigy mechanics being what they are. They dont want us to get bored rolling dots, so if the boss moves a bit, at least we get to recast the Effigy. Yay!

    Not to mention that at least Shadow Priests HAD an "insta" aoe, we as affliction basically have nothing on adds that dies fairly fast. Make seed instant cast and make it deal increased damage on targets already affected by corruption or something, and make it explode from all damage already, not just our own, so we can start multispreading it right away! Ah nm, the more I think about our issues the more pissed I get.

    When bosses become immune to damage, or untargetable for example Attumen. It is a real joy to reapply that damn Agony every time he mounts/dismounts, so you can see it start ticking up to 10/20, and then he mounts/dismounts again before it is there, so you...well anyone playing affliction gets the picture.

    Or as I complained about before. Our talentable cd, 15 seconds, extendable up to 35 if you have TEN agonies out. Seriously, I dont think I had 10 agonies out at the same time once so far in this expansion. I know, you dont have to get 20 seconds extra, but the whole concept is so damn stupid its like they just want to piss us off. When would it ever be beneficial to use 7 extra (assuming 3 targets that are worth putting agony on) gcd's to get some extra damage for a 14 more seconds? IS there even a scenario where it is possible?

    Half-arsed shit the lot of it. Didnt even fix tooltip for Reverse Entropy yet.
    Last edited by noaim; 2016-11-23 at 01:25 PM.

  10. #450
    Deleted
    Going to wait it out before I say some dumb shit. The buff to Empowered Life Tap seems decent, not that I'm terribly interested in a maintenance buff. If they insist on it though, I feel like it shouldn't affect my gameplay too much, aka have me life tap every other second, but 15 seconds seems a lot more reasonable than 10 seconds. Still honestly wonder how it will pan out vs eradication.

  11. #451
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firon View Post
    Hunters and mages have had a lot of big mechanical changes to the way their specs play in 7.1.5 though, so it's understandable they would address this. Destruction is the most changed warlock spec so far and it's relatively minor things with talent swaps. I'm expecting more significant changes to affliction and demonology at which point we might warrant our own block of text, but right now the changes aren't there for them to comment on.
    They don't need to be. That Blue post comments on the intentions more than the changes.

    All they need to say is

    "Affliction warlocks we feel have too much ramp, are a bit too constrained into one role or the other by talent choices and their single target is a little low, so we are looking at changes to address this without changing what we feel is affliction's basic design concept which is a damage over time class that is great at multidotting"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMagicMan View Post
    Going to wait it out before I say some dumb shit. The buff to Empowered Life Tap seems decent, not that I'm terribly interested in a maintenance buff. If they insist on it though, I feel like it shouldn't affect my gameplay too much, aka have me life tap every other second, but 15 seconds seems a lot more reasonable than 10 seconds. Still honestly wonder how it will pan out vs eradication.
    All they are doing is making the talent line roughly equal, which is what they always do. Enhanced Lifetap was a clearly inferior talent that gave you back less at more cost. Still, on the plsu side they did not operate their more usual policy of nerfing the better talents to make the bad one look better.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by kavousanos View Post
    Lo and behold.. They did listen to some feedback.
    I am speechless.
    Maybe that is the first sign, maybe they hired a guy recently that actually play warlock

  13. #453
    Note that full PTR notes don't typically go up, or build information available, til mid day to evening Wednesday for a Thursday testing. What was posted on the front page was preliminary data mining. We need to wait and see what changes, if any, go up today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  14. #454
    No changes and no blizz comments. Yeah keep dreaming there are more to come lol.

    Blizzards attitude with warlocks is disgusting and ashaming, I cant understand the people who still defend them.

  15. #455
    Ok so my brain woke me up early to think about warlock stuff and it really wanted to talk so excuse the wall of text that I will try to break up. Namely some changes I'd like to see for us as warlocks.

    All Specs

    - Demonic Circle be baseline again with the Burning Rush talent that could replace it if taken.
    - Grimoire of Sacrifice - Let us have our demon's abilities again!!
    - Shadowfury talent for all specs, also make fear targets automatically stand in place instead of running all over.


    Affliction

    - Shadowbolt returns, instant procs/nightfall of of Corruption ticks
    - Soul Effigy removed (and may it diaf please) Though slightly more realistic would be make it like a damn shaman totem to at least place wherever we want it (but still it should diaf)
    - Siphon Life Baseline
    - Make Sow the Seeds ability baseline, in its place on the tree you could put Phantom Singularity (could even make it that Phantom spreads dots in some capacity)

    *Mechanically I enjoy actual dotting play style and wish dots to stand on their own. I do not want a return of using Haunt to prop up the dots. The bigger part is our artifact but I am not a big fan of trying to completely rework it as the weapon won't follow us after legion. If there was a way to change a gold trait to say its activation procs with a Shadowbolt hit as well as on death that might be feasible. I just don't see a full rework as possible (even if it does need it)


    Destruction

    - Want to see return of Burning Embers
    - Backdraft or Reverse Entropy Baseline (While I would love to have both I don't want to go back to Charred Remains play style and Chaos Bolt becomes more as a filler, having the small reduction in cast times with either of these I could see
    - Wouldn't mind seeing return of Fel Flame, if we get Backdraft back as it is tied to Conflag, so something for on the move
    - And Destro mastery was slightly change but not sure what, as buffing Chaos bolts again while cool, could severely make 2 target cleave overpowered and don't want to see our strength nerfed

    *While Destro single target isn't in as good of a place, Destro's niche is still fantastic and strong but it really needs a few simple tweaks.


    Demonology

    - Implosion being made baseline
    - Imp Swamr back as an ability or as a talent (could replace Implosions spot if Implosion went baseline, and could then replace it if taken to chose between upfront aoe or more sustained, could also say Demon Swarm instead for some variations even)
    - Demonbolt baseline

    * While something should definitely change with demo's enormous haste dependency and turret spec, not sure exactly which ways to go.


    Final thoughts - Talents are supposed to enhance our play, not pigenhole us so bad we can't contribute in other ways to a fight. Functionality of many of our spells needs to be looked at as well (ie Sacrifice). I know it is easy to say that well I want to play this spec and this spec only, but I have always felt like I play a class not just a spec (and that goes across every character I have played) so I am more ok with sometimes not being able to be whatever spec for everything. But as not everyone feels that way something does need to be slightly adjusted. Numbers tuning is just that but I think mechanically is what most of us want to see fixed more than anything.
    What, you don't care about getting little pixels that show other pixel characters that you killed a pixel dragon anymore?!

  16. #456
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Note that full PTR notes don't typically go up, or build information available, til mid day to evening Wednesday for a Thursday testing. What was posted on the front page was preliminary data mining. We need to wait and see what changes, if any, go up today.
    Sorry to say that Santa and leprechauns aren;t real either.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Sorry to say that Santa and leprechauns aren;t real either.
    More that I'm waiting for the end of today to start the bash train.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  18. #458
    Doesn't seem to have anything else this time. They know better to release when "it's done".

    At least they were good changes, not enough changes though.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Blizzards attitude with warlocks is disgusting and ashaming, I cant understand the people who still defend them.
    Its a 2 way street. The community (not just warlocks) has been on another level of toxic for the past 2 years now and its just snowballing.. And no, its not justified. Its gotten so absurd that the nonsense people spew out is being propagated as truth and it really blows me away honestly. People are so insecure to not be on the popular side of the opinion that they just take a cynical angle on everything. People harp on posters like Gaidax for "blindly defending anything Blizz does" yet 95% of the community will just blindly shit on everything blizz does.

    Listen to yourself... "Blizzards attitude with Warlocks is disgusting.." lol..

  20. #460
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulzar View Post
    Its a 2 way street. The community (not just warlocks) has been on another level of toxic for the past 2 years now and its just snowballing.. And no, its not justified. Its gotten so absurd that the nonsense people spew out is being propagated as truth and it really blows me away honestly. People are so insecure to not be on the popular side of the opinion that they just take a cynical angle on everything. People harp on posters like Gaidax for "blindly defending anything Blizz does" yet 95% of the community will just blindly shit on everything blizz does.

    Listen to yourself... "Blizzards attitude with Warlocks is disgusting.." lol..
    Fight hyperbole with hyperbole, that's a sure way to get your point across!

    No, but seriously. Blizzard's "attitude" towards warlocks hasn't been "disgusting", but I'd rather say it hasn't been there. At times you see that glimmer of hope, when they directly address your concerns, but then they do the most questionable things afterwards.

    Cue Legion Alpha. Affliction Warlock is showcased as the first spec, and we're given a glimpse to their Artifact & Artifact Ability. What the shit is this? Ghost mobs which float towards my target, but I have to switch targets to DoT it up and kill it. Clunky as shit, scrap it Blizz.
    So they do at the launch of Legion Beta. This time they've left 2 Artifact Traits which entirely depended on the old Artifact Ability. Users beg for a change, and well... It's 7.1 - soon to be 7.1.5 and those 2 exact traits are still in the game. We were very vocal about our dislike for the Destruction Mastery stat. The lack of any real synergy in the kit.

    The biggest fix I've seen them commit in Legion for Warlocks is probably changing our base amount of Soul Shards from 1 to 3 sadly. The numbers are there for the Warlock class, but the gameplay in general is just worse than it has been in the past, with the possible exception of Demonology depending on who you ask. They've been developing this game 12 years. It's not a lack of experience that is keeping them from making Warlocks more enjoyable to play. I just don't believe there is any form of passion put into Warlocks as a project. Not after Xelnath's departure at least.

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