Hunter MM going suck in 7.1.5

[Runamuck]

Why cant they just get rid of vulnerable. Boost Arcane Multi and Aimed shot with Marked being our proc DPS boost. Give us the old explosive shot back.

Vulnerable concept needs to go.

[Dracodraco]

Why cant they just get rid of vulnerable. Boost Arcane Multi and Aimed shot with Marked being our proc DPS boost. Give us the old explosive shot back.

Vulnerable concept needs to go.

Mainly because that'd be super boring. Just another generic "hit X button as filler to regen power, hit Y button to get rid of power, smash Z button when it procs". It'd remove any depth the spec has *at all*, and there's not a ton to begin with.

[Bepples]

Tuning Pass hasn't occurred yet.

Most overused, unsubstantial excuse ever repeated on the forums. Every testing phase we hear this, and every time it turns out to be a farce. Without. Fail.

[samao]

Mainly because that'd be super boring. Just another generic "hit X button as filler to regen power, hit Y button to get rid of power, smash Z button when it procs". It'd remove any depth the spec has *at all*, and there's not a ton to begin with.

I'd take boring over boring + punished for poor RNG.

[Deleted]

Steady Shot instead of arcane usable on the move ofc, match it to GCD, marked makes aimed shot instant and buffs dmg, marked shot a short CD that guarantees a mark for aimed shot.

IF they started there I'd instantly like the spec 10 times more. Just give it more of a flow, instead of the twitchyness we have now.

MM has a cool concept and I love the artifact, but it feels... Rushed :P

[Feanoro]

Mainly because that'd be super boring. Just another generic "hit X button as filler to regen power, hit Y button to get rid of power, smash Z button when it procs". It'd remove any depth the spec has *at all*, and there's not a ton to begin with.

So, a slightly modified WoD MM, which similarly lacked any depth. And no, not with the "herp, I like to spaz all over the place" tier bonus. Always amazed me that people focused on the movement and not the real benefit, namely fitting the same damage into 1 GCD that was normally in 3.

MM has desperately needed some sort of feedback loop for a long time, after they gutted it to give all its tricks out to BM and SV.

[Bepples]

And no, not with the "herp, I like to spaz all over the place"

It's always funny when delusional posters try to make mobility sound like a bad thing.

And that set bonus had nothing to do with mobility, anyway; Aimed Shot could be cast while moving before it was instant.

[Tyze]

Will it really suck? Won't it be the playstyle without Sidewinders as it was "meant to be" at the start of Legion?

[CastorBlanc]

Blue post came out about MM:

Marksmanship Hunter:
We agree with players that Marksmanship currently relies far too much on Patient Sniper not only to do good damage, but also to make the rotation feel fun and rewarding. As such, we’re changing baseline Vulnerability to essentially bake in Patient Sniper, and adding a new Patient Sniper talent in its place. We are also adjusting some talents to allow for more diversity within talent rows and reflect the change to the base rotation. In particular, the Level 100 row: while Sidewinders was commonly used in all situations for its effects on the rotation, we’d rather the base rotation felt fluid on its own, and Sidewinders was a talent focused on the wide-area cleave that is its most clear purpose. Among other changes to help with this, Marked Shot no longer requires the targets to have Vulnerable to do strong damage, so builds without Sidewinders will be able to use it more effectively.

[Youn]

You do realize that post is exactly what is implemented on the PTR that most people hate? It means you have a vulnerability window of 7(or less) second that you need to fire off a marked shot (or aimed shot [40% less damage then marked shot]) as late in the vulnerability debuff as possible. The only issue is that the item that procs vulnerability can reset the timer thereby killing your damage on the next marked shot.

Double procs can result in serious damage loss. So, the decision then because fire off the marked shot late in the fight window or possibly lose the damage or fire off the marked shot early in the window and lose all the Aimed shot damage.

[DeicideUH]

Most overused, unsubstantial excuse ever repeated on the forums. Every testing phase we hear this, and every time it turns out to be a farce. Without. Fail.

Thank you for cutting off the rest of my post just so you could pretend you're right. Congrats for being oh so smart, you win the internet!

[PewPewArrowz]

You do realize that post is exactly what is implemented on the PTR that most people hate? It means you have a vulnerability window of 7(or less) second that you need to fire off a marked shot (or aimed shot [40% less damage then marked shot]) as late in the vulnerability debuff as possible. The only issue is that the item that procs vulnerability can reset the timer thereby killing your damage on the next marked shot.

Double procs can result in serious damage loss. So, the decision then because fire off the marked shot late in the fight window or possibly lose the damage or fire off the marked shot early in the window and lose all the Aimed shot damage.

Im pretty sure most of the people were pissed off cause SW didn't apply Vulnerable anymore, now I don't see that issue since Marked shot will be pretty much the same as on Live (damage wise). From what I understand, now we get increased damage on AiS to match AiS with Vulnerable + additional windows where AiS will just hands down rape, and pretty much same cleave as we have on live, I could be way off or something I'm missing

[Deleted]

Mainly because that'd be super boring. Just another generic "hit X button as filler to regen power, hit Y button to get rid of power, smash Z button when it procs". It'd remove any depth the spec has *at all*, and there's not a ton to begin with.

Oh dear i will stay silent no poiint to explain what blizz can change in MM when ppl like you think that having 7 sec Collosus sma..ehm Vulnerability put the MM in depth rotation

[Queen of Hamsters]

How does BM play? I am leveling a hunter right now and i really like BM.

Better than what the doom and gloom crowds claim.

Infinite mobility, only a slight downside to target-swapping but using macros negates a lot of that, our pets move faster and can KC from a distance. Very few melees have such short CD gap-closers.

If MM is indeed as bad as people say come 7.1.5... I guess I should get going with getting my BM spec up to snuff.

[Youn]

The lack of spreading vulnerability means there is no reasonable way with sidewinders to spread it. Thereby completely killing it's actual purpose which is cleave.

Since, barrage also doesn't spread vulnerability it is also useless once you apply a 50% nerf to it. Thereby making it not useful for cleave.

This means If you want to cleave you have to use Volley. Which costs 3 focus each time you autoshot.

When sidewinders lost 20 focus per shot. This means players with no focus loss are going to lose large sums of damage. While players with huge focus loss are suddenly become far more efficient at their shots. Which, since, you should probably be moving to arcane shots/multi-shots and trick shot as the alternative in order to keep your cleave damage up.

This brings us back to vulnerability as a mechanic. If you take patient sniper, because all the rest of the talents in that row are pointless. Then you run into a weird effect that can occur.

Marked Shot is 250% weapon damage. Aimed shot is 61.9% of the damage of a Marked Shot or (250% * .619). So, Patient sniper looks as follow:

6: 115%
5: 130%
4: 145%
3: 160%
2: 175%
1: 190%

You want to fire your marked shot as late in the timer as possible. The issue is if at 4 seconds it resets back to 7 seconds. Then you lost your opportunity to fire the high damage Marked shot. And instead fired the shots that are only 61.9% of the damage you could have fired. So, each reset, basically kills potential damage.

[Deleted]

cant believe ppl still value the "complexity" of the rotation when it comes to actual balance numbers.

[Miggy]

You want to fire your marked shot as late in the timer as possible. The issue is if at 4 seconds it resets back to 7 seconds. Then you lost your opportunity to fire the high damage Marked shot. And instead fired the shots that are only 61.9% of the damage you could have fired. So, each reset, basically kills potential damage.

The blue post today confirmed that marked shot no longer benefits from vulnerable (but will have its base damage increased to compensate) so what you say wont be an issue. Aimed shot is another matter however, I think you will definitely be wanting to leave that as late as possible.

I had a quick play around on the PTR and with about 12% haste I was able to do Marked -> Arcane -> 2x Aimed, the arcane shot was a bit of a filler so that the second aimed shot landed a fraction before vulnerable expired. Marking shots proc appears to proc a lot more often without sidewinders, there was almost always another marked shot waiting to go after the vulnerable expired, the problem was more the focus regen and not having enough to repeat without a bit of arcane shot spamming first.

Still though, it's not as bad a rotation as I thought it would be, and I quite like the timing aspect, trying to squeeze in aimed shots to hit the end of the vulnerable window. Not for everyone though.

[Feanoro]

It's always funny when delusional posters try to make mobility sound like a bad thing.

And that set bonus had nothing to do with mobility, anyway; Aimed Shot could be cast while moving before it was instant.

It's always funny when people with no argument resort to ad homs. And people who whine for the return of that bonus always focus on mobility, not the damage increase.

"Infinite mobility for all classes!" was one of the single biggest moron moves GC ever crapped out, and that's saying something. WoD Sniper Training was a step back towards sanity, and BM is there if planning movement is hard, guiz.

Basically though, what we're seeing is "We didn't actually finish classes before release, tossed some last minute things against the wall (SW, Autoshot RNG), and so now we're trying to finish up the dev cycle. Sorry if that completely screws you, but we're not the old Blizzard who cared about such."


If they're going to bake in PS, they need to treat Vuln as a bonus, not mandatory to do any damage. Further, the two-stage debuff concept (Mark -> Vuln) was unbelievably clunky in alpha, as reported and ignored. At least give us Colossus Smash Shot instead of Autoshot RNG...

[Sol77]

Im pretty sure most of the people were pissed off cause SW didn't apply Vulnerable anymore, now I don't see that issue since Marked shot will be pretty much the same as on Live (damage wise). From what I understand, now we get increased damage on AiS to match AiS with Vulnerable + additional windows where AiS will just hands down rape, and pretty much same cleave as we have on live, I could be way off or something I'm missing

Obviously, if they would simply bake the 150% vulnerability bonus into the base shots, we wouldn't get hurt. Though, why would they do that?

[Deleted]

Marking shots proc appears to proc a lot more often without sidewinders, there was almost always another marked shot waiting to go after the vulnerable expired, the problem was more the focus regen and not having enough to repeat without a bit of arcane shot spamming first.

How can it procc more often if it is only bound to auto attack?