[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[Baconeggcheese]

ELT is now 15 seconds duration. Not ideal, but a massive improvement from Mana Tap situation.

I think it looks like it's going to be a default choice that row, unless we we end up with so many shards that we will have trouble not wasting them, which may be the case with tier.

Yeah ever since the change I imagined its either going to be thee choice or not taken and more than likely will end up thee choice.

I'm still half asleep right now though so I don't feel like braining to try and figure out if its worth the gcd now. I imagine it should be enough or quite close to it, it's just a question of if that's competitive with not having to spend any gcd's on having 60+% up time on eradication.

Does anyone knows if http://www.wowhead.com/item=132379/s...spite#comments works for destro?

Works with all specs.

[Gaidax]

Yeah ever since the change I imagined its either going to be thee choice or not taken and more than likely will end up thee choice.

I'm still half asleep right now though so I don't feel like braining to try and figure out if its worth the gcd now. I imagine it should be enough or quite close to it, it's just a question of if that's competitive with not having to spend any gcd's on having 60+% up time on eradication.

Well I am more thinking around the fact that you are not going to truly turret 24/7 in any sort of decent encounter, so every time you move it's a free 10% boost for 15 seconds.

It may not be the most ideal GCD you may use IF you are actually turreting (although I suspect it will just be enough with this change), but above point, IMO, should cover for this easily.

I'm kinda wondering where it leaves Eradication or even RE in this case.

[Deleted]

my feeling says Empowered Life Tap is the best talent in that row. For AoE and mythics+ and stuff it is probably the best by far.

If you have like Feretory of Souls and multiple chaos bolt shard refund relics the other 2 might get better for single target /cleave if you find yourself constantly casting Chaos Bolts due to lots of shards.

That is just my intuition though.


But I still think that Life Tap is a very outdated mechanic and shouldn't be a thing in 2016. I know class fantasy and stuff, but I don't really like it. They should rather remove mana from warlock like they did with other dps speccs/classes and make us solely rely on soul shards. But this is not going to happen with LEGION so we gotta go with what is best in that row instead of wishing. My bet goes to empowered life tap.

[Scathbais]

We clearly need some sort of passive/rotational healing if Blizzard expects us to Life Tap every 15 seconds. I hope RE gets baked in to our spell book and replaced with something else.

Lastly, the more I look at Channel Demonfire, the more I think it should no longer be tied to immolate. That is a relic from alpha/early beta where CDF hit all immolated targets. Now Immolate actually hinders good CDF usage.

[Werst]

I agree lifetap is a wildly outdated mechanic but devs love the class lore even if it horks a giant phlegm ball on our collective gaming experience. IMO they care more about their lore than how people actually enjoy their product. Ergo the warlock community general satisfaction levels for legion.

I think ILT would be fine at 20 seconds and eradication could use a duration and % bump or perhaps a massive ST one that the bonus gets cut in two when havoc'ing? RE is just such a qol it is perhaps the number 1 talent that should be baseline with something else in its spot...like a weaker focused chaos in pve that throttles whatever CB dmg bonus to the havoc'd target. Also strongly disagree with shadowburn direction. It should be baseline as it was before. Talent should let shadowburn be used at any target HP and scale its damage from haste as CB does crit. Wouldn't mind CDF being castable on the move and not be a trap with havoc use. Sorry but mobility is still a huge thing and since they busted when "doubling down" on our defensives to put it mildly while buffing survival of other ranged.

[Deleted]

We clearly need some sort of passive/rotational healing if Blizzard expects us to Life Tap every 15 seconds. I hope RE gets baked in to our spell book and replaced with something else.

Lastly, the more I look at Channel Demonfire, the more I think it should no longer be tied to immolate. That is a relic from alpha/early beta where CDF hit all immolated targets. Now Immolate actually hinders good CDF usage.

I really don't want to crush your hopes, but Empowered Life Tap is basically confirmation that Blizzard is not going to give up on Life Tap and something like Reverse Entropy will never be baseline. It would render Life Tap completely useless.
I am with you though. I would love for RE to be baseline and Life tap to be removed, but I fear the chance of that happening is less than 0,01%.

[Werst]

What we really need baseline more than RE is just the cast time reductions on CB and RoF. If we had those RE could still be a talent but maybe have it heal on CB casts or grant some flat healing leech percentage?

[Deleted]

What we really need baseline more than RE is just the cast time reductions on CB and RoF. If we had those RE could still be a talent but maybe have it heal on CB casts or grant some flat healing leech percentage?

yeah.

- Chaos Bolt baseline casttime reduced by 0.5
- RE increase CB damage by X% (don't know what would be a good value. maybe 10% ? maybe 15%?) instead of casttime reduce

[Baconeggcheese]

Well I am more thinking around the fact that you are not going to truly turret 24/7 in any sort of decent encounter, so every time you move it's a free 10% boost for 15 seconds.

It may not be the most ideal GCD you may use IF you are actually turreting (although I suspect it will just be enough with this change), but above point, IMO, should cover for this easily.

I'm kinda wondering where it leaves Eradication or even RE in this case.

Light movements not the end of the world for destro though, the portals and conflag especially with the BD change assuming it or shadowburn are competitive are enough to get you through most small movement and if you have to move much more than that you're gonna be in pretty bad shape regardless. If running eradication life tap is still something you can spend a gcd doing as well just for the mana so really it comes down to which ones % dmg is going to win out when weighed against the gcd's spent on ELT.

I'm betting by the end of this PTR it'll end up better one way or another and just be our next maintenance buff we're forced to take though.

[Deleted]

For Ill'gynoth mythic is grimore of service or grimore of sacrifice is the better choice ? I do better damage with sacrifice, but i wanna know more different opinions.

[Deleted]

For Ill'gynoth mythic is grimore of service or grimore of sacrifice is the better choice ? I do better damage with sacrifice, but i wanna know more different opinions.

It depends of your raid problem:
*If you lack dps on the heart => take service
*If you lack dps on the adds => take sacrifice

The good question is : is this AoE dps worth the lost of ST dps ?

[Deleted]

Well i noticed sacrifice is also good in single target. And it gives a static nice dps up. But some of my guildmates says its an uncontrollable aoe dmg, so it kill adds, but i think its only target changing.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Gregpower The aoe from gosac is typically completely unneeded since bloods are entirely about controlled dps. Gosac will do less ST than service.

The entire fight is controlled dps, so the only dmg you should be worrying about is on everything except bloods.

[dofz]

Having the legendary cloak it turns out it was a ST loss for me atleast, both simming and and in practice. With soul conduit it's much easier to keep a very high uptime with eradication. Doing mythic guarm i would end on around 430-450k if we killed him with portal legs and cloak, not using havoc tho.

[Fabinas]

Having the legendary cloak it turns out it was a ST loss for me atleast, both simming and and in practice. With soul conduit it's much easier to keep a very high uptime with eradication. Doing mythic guarm i would end on around 430-450k if we killed him with portal legs and cloak, not using havoc tho.

I hope you used havoc at least on cooldown for that short extra "eradication" buff the legendary cloak provides

[Baconeggcheese]

I hope you used havoc at least on cooldown for that short extra "eradication" buff the legendary cloak provides

That'd be a dps loss on ST.

[Deleted]

Light movements not the end of the world for destro though, the portals and conflag especially with the BD change assuming it or shadowburn are competitive are enough to get you through most small movement and if you have to move much more than that you're gonna be in pretty bad shape regardless. If running eradication life tap is still something you can spend a gcd doing as well just for the mana so really it comes down to which ones % dmg is going to win out when weighed against the gcd's spent on ELT.

I'm betting by the end of this PTR it'll end up better one way or another and just be our next maintenance buff we're forced to take though.

yep

I simply can't see how Eradication would EVER win against Empowered Life Tap.

Eradication flaw out loses that row. Like you said you need to use a global cd for Life Tap aswell, but Eradication won't have a 100% uptime on all targets. Also Eradication is only the damage you directly deal to the target so Pets and Rifts don't benefit from the 12% (correct me if I am mistaken but I feel life I've read it in Brusalks Destro guide).
Empowered Life Tap also just wins out because of AoE and I don't know if any of you guys have played Destruction on single target fights without Feretory of Souls but I can tell you that Eradication actually has a pretty poor uptime and god damn those times when conflag is on CD and you spent your time casting Incinerate until you drop to 40% mana feel endless until you finally can cast a Chaos Bolt again if you have been unfortunate with immolate soul shard generating ticks.

I am 99% sure no good player is ever going to take Eradication at all. The Lazy ones are going RE, but Empowered Life Tap is probably going to win out until people have Feretory + 4 piece T19.

I guess with 4 piece T19 and Feretory you simply don't have any globals left and find yourself constantly spamming super fast chaos bolts and conflags and refreshing immolate, rifts etc so Reverse Entropy becomes the best choice naturally.

TL;DR Eradication will never ever be competitive in that row. It simply is too bad.

[Deleted]

i am not so sure about RE after you get the reduced CB cast from set (and if you also play with backdraft). Eradication could be then the choice to go if you also have the belt.

[Deleted]

i am not so sure about RE after you get the reduced CB cast from set (and if you also play with backdraft). Eradication could be then the choice to go if you also have the belt.

hmm why do you think that?

I just don't see how Eradication ever would be useful.

When you specc into Eradication you still need to Life Tap for mana. You don't need to do it as often as you would with Empowered Life Tap, but you still need to waste globals on it and with T19 4 Piece our globals become much more valueable since we have 3 conflag charges and reduced cooldown. It's like a 6 second cooldown or something then with enough haste. We basically do nothing but keeping immolate up, casting conflags and chaos bolts


I mean it could be for pure single target fights if Eradication actually affects the damage of your pets, rifts, trinkets and enchants too (that is the part I am not certain about).

With how haste works I am not sure ... it will probably be quite complicated then with Backdraft, RE, lots of haste and set bonus -20% cast time. It may reach the point where our talent choices come down to what stats we have. If we have like 40% haste then backdraft or RE might be worse compared to Eradication/ELF or Roaring Blaze.

Interesting times ahead once we got the set. Some very smart people are probably going to figure it out !

[Deleted]

Its just speculation nothing more, but it doesnt seem absurd to think that RE cast time reduction will lose a lot of value if you have 4set + backdraft + a lot of haste (which most of us will have anyway)