Something needs to be done about M+ and its negative impact on the game

[mitre27]

The only problem i have is the sheer amount of AP you get from mythic+ which is spammable, the loot is negligible.

[omeomorfismo]

**Edited - see bottom**

Now before you freak out and tell me I'm stupid, hear me out....

As a former hardcore player (not hardcore progression, but hardcore like 6-7 hours per day) that can only play .5-1 hour a day, M+ is killing the ability for me to progress in terms of gear and AP when compared to other players. M+ is fine in and of itself, it is a fun way to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion and gives players something to do. We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

However, there needs to be a cap on how many times you an run a M+ in a day or in a week OR the rewards need to scale down after you run a certain amount per day. For the majority of players, we don't have time to run M+ all day or even for 4-5 hours in a row. The players that do run these all day have a very, very significant advantage when it comes to AP and gear.

Blizzard has stated that they don't want the game to be just about time sink. Well, Legion is a giant time sink of an expansion, more than I've ever experienced myself (played for 12 years).

If Blizzard wants to stay true to their design philosophies and intent, then they need to put some limits on M+ grinding.

EDIT:

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

oh, it's existed, it is the exponential growth of AP needed for trait plus the exponential growth of AK.

[ripxwx]

What I'm saying is that the way the game is currently structured, if you want to keep up and remain competitive you CAN'T if you are a casual player. This is alienating 80% of the player base and making raiding obsolete.

This makes no sense. Mythic+ gives casual people a way to keep up, if they don't have time for serious raiding. I'm a try hard casual player and I love this new system because I can actually stay relevant without joining a mythic raiding guild. I use my hour or two a day to run M+s and thus am able to still get challenging and rewarding gameplay as a casual player. No other xpac, imo, has offered so much for casual players.

[Jewsco]

Adding a cap would just force everyone to do that many mythic+ each week I would hate being forced to do like 5 per week. I prefer being able to do 40 one week and then do nothing but one +12 the next week.

Exactly if I have the time or the desire I can do as many as I want or like to. With a set cap then I have to run x amount every week. Let me decide how much or little I want to do not the game dictate it

[Hyxi]

That does not go against my suggestion. I completely agree.

It would like to specifically point out that it's only a couple dungeons per evening. That's not a lot.

[Xargoth6634]

This is alienating 80% of the player base and making raiding obsolete.

*Citation needed.

Thanks for speaking for 80% of the player base, but I don't think you're doing so legitimately. Sounds more like squeaky wheel syndrome to me.

[Boyinawell]

What I'm saying is that the way the game is currently structured, if you want to keep up and remain competitive you CAN'T if you are a casual player. This is alienating 80% of the player base and making raiding obsolete.

Seriously, read this line again.

You can't be competitive if you are casual.

How dare they make a system where people who are competitive have to compete.

And your suggested solution is to limit those players to doing a set number of M+ a week. Which doesn't change that you feel raiding is "obsolete" (Which is ludicris. It's still some of the most story heavy, challenging content in the game).

You are obsessed with AP as a number. You should be focusing on what's entertaining for you. If you like WQ's do them. If you like Pet battles, PVP, Raiding, or dungeons, do them. All of these offer some form of progression for your character.

If you want to be competitive with the top end of players, understand that 1 hour a day is not realistic.

[DeadmanWalking]

Thanks for the reasonable question and response.

What I'm saying is that the way the game is currently structured, if you want to keep up and remain competitive you CAN'T if you are a casual player. This is alienating 80% of the player base and making raiding obsolete.

- - - Updated - - -



That does not go against my suggestion. I completely agree.

- - - Updated - - -



oh really? Thanks for reading my mind.

BTW, I replied to him and other reasonable posts/questions.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, exactly my point. The game IS M+ now, there is nothing else as important to do.

- - - Updated - - -



Sure, you can, but it doesn't add anything to the conversation. I'm not saying you can't call me stupid.

This is not alienating the player base. This is alienating YOU. You are not the everyman, you are not a representative of anyone but yourself. Stop acting like everyone is just like you, I play an hour a day and pug 6 hours on friday, I am not even close to cutting edge and I'm okay with that because it isn't everyone elses fault I have limited game time and it isn't the games fault for giving people things to keep them busy because I have a limited play schedule.

If everyone can be cutting edge with 30 mins a day then cutting edge is pretty fucking pathetic and everyone is cutting edge and cutting edge means NOTHING. If I can be cutting edge in 30 mins a day then I don't want to be cutting edge because cutting edge would be a joke. News flash, you are not as Regal and Beastly as you seem to think you are.

[Brewhan]

**Edited - see bottom**

Now before you freak out and tell me I'm stupid, hear me out....

As a former hardcore player (not hardcore progression, but hardcore like 6-7 hours per day) that can only play .5-1 hour a day, M+ is killing the ability for me to progress in terms of gear and AP when compared to other players. M+ is fine in and of itself, it is a fun way to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion and gives players something to do. We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

However, there needs to be a cap on how many times you an run a M+ in a day or in a week OR the rewards need to scale down after you run a certain amount per day. For the majority of players, we don't have time to run M+ all day or even for 4-5 hours in a row. The players that do run these all day have a very, very significant advantage when it comes to AP and gear.

Blizzard has stated that they don't want the game to be just about time sink. Well, Legion is a giant time sink of an expansion, more than I've ever experienced myself (played for 12 years).

If Blizzard wants to stay true to their design philosophies and intent, then they need to put some limits on M+ grinding.

EDIT:

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

I agree M+ should have some sort of cap or the amount of actual loot you can get limited to 7-10 a week or something. Right now mythic+ is the best way to get gear regardless. I'm 872 and I haven't done any heroic raids only normal. That seems a little off to me. I realize M+ is a viable alternative to raiding but I think it should be an addition to raiding not straight up replace it. The drops should possibly fill half your gear slots, M+ just drops loot way to often. Adding a cap would help me at least in being able to play all my alts together. Right now I have 3 alts all 865+ and some days if I get in a M+ grinding mood my other alts go unplayed for the whole next day or two.

I'm fine with it being the best way to farm AP because while it seems like a huge gap from our level 26-28 and the top players level 35 artifact weapon we will catch up to that mid january or so and it won't even be that far behind them. They are just the top 1% of players in mythic raiding so its no big deal to me.

I also hate how the mentality of wow is shifting now to "GOTTA GO FAST" not just in mythic+ but in all things now. It's even worse than before with the mass introduction of timed runs to everyone (when before timed runs were limited to high end players). I was running a normal raid people had no patience and pulling 5 packs in the raid and cost us 15 minutes in wipes.

Was doing a mythic XMOG run from last expansion people pulling without any idea what to do or saying anything just assuming people knew the fights and another hour of pointless dying because people dont stop to explain or say anything. It's just gotta go gotta keep zerging. I would like if mythic+ had no time limit and the bosses were really hard and gave loot based on how well you performed in each fight.

gg blizz

[SkagenRora]

I'm at 7/7 mythic EN 3/3 heroic halls. 878 ilvl. I have done a total of like. 6 Mythic+ since the launch of the expansion. so whatdahfk is your point? You don't need mythic+, at all.

[Deleted]

I'm at 7/7 mythic EN 3/3 heroic halls. 878 ilvl. I have done a total of like. 6 Mythic+ since the launch of the expansion. so whatdahfk is your point? You don't need mythic+, at all.

I think the major point the OP was arguing was the amount of AP you got from mythic plus. The ilvl being a secondary thing and your progress in raids dont really factor in here at all.

Not that i agree its a problem. But i do see his point

[dabanks07]

As someone that can only run a few mythic+ per week I have no problem with people being able to chain mythic+ for gear and AP. The absolute only thing I'd like is for the legendary 'bad luck protection' increases to cap after so many per day/week. As far as I know this may be the case; Blizz has been pretty quiet on how certain things work in this regard.

[tikcol]

**Edited - see bottom**

Now before you freak out and tell me I'm stupid, hear me out....

As a former hardcore player (not hardcore progression, but hardcore like 6-7 hours per day) that can only play .5-1 hour a day, M+ is killing the ability for me to progress in terms of gear and AP when compared to other players. M+ is fine in and of itself, it is a fun way to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion and gives players something to do. We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

However, there needs to be a cap on how many times you an run a M+ in a day or in a week OR the rewards need to scale down after you run a certain amount per day. For the majority of players, we don't have time to run M+ all day or even for 4-5 hours in a row. The players that do run these all day have a very, very significant advantage when it comes to AP and gear.

Blizzard has stated that they don't want the game to be just about time sink. Well, Legion is a giant time sink of an expansion, more than I've ever experienced myself (played for 12 years).

If Blizzard wants to stay true to their design philosophies and intent, then they need to put some limits on M+ grinding.

EDIT:

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

Oh yes I agree. We can't feel forced to run Mythic+ dungeons all the time. This is a problem that goes hand in hand with Artifact Power and the whole "Be in a guild to be successful" dilemma that haunts some of us everyday.

Something must be done to stop those things from trending. I theorize that someday soon Blizzard will realize this is true. It might be too late though, because players get used to things very quickly and then it becomes very hard to take it away from them.

This game isn't Diablo, this is our beloved MMORPG and those new systems they are trying to implement are not fit to be pillars at which the game bases itself. They are faulty pillars that have no place inside WoW.

Grinding used to be fun. Now it's just a chore...

[SkagenRora]

I think the major point the OP was arguing was the amount of AP you got from mythic plus. The ilvl being a secondary thing and your progress in raids dont really factor in here at all.

Not that i agree its a problem. But i do see his point

We'll all be full specced in artifact in a few months, so does it really matter`?

[Zka]

I really enjoy that my gear can stay somewhat relevant with some m+ and WQs. That is definitely not a problem

[Dahti]

I think the problem is that you aren't actually enjoying the game because you feel "behind the curve". If you can't enjoy the game because you aren't 885+ then maybe looking into another game is the solution you are after.

And how did grinding used to be fun? Rep grind to exalted when mobs gave 4-12 rep was fun to you? Not to mention you got like 0 reward while you did most rep grinds...

At least now you get a chance to get to know Sephuz Secrets...

[Accendor]

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

My Problem with that is that I like to run 10 a day if I want to and I see no reason why they should take content away from me.

[Sansnom]

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

I think that is a very selfish attitude to take. You to rein in other players who have the time for your benefit.

If a player can do more M+ than you, they can acquire more AP. If you cannot compete with them in terms of time, then it is an unfortunate situation for you.

Why must the game be change to suit you more than others?

[Rogalicus]

Why must the game be change to suit you more than others?

Yet again:

The game was changed in Legion to be more appealing to your kind in the first place. Even in Vanilla there never was a point where you had to grind like this for all expansion, much less in any other other expansion.

[Astray]

I don't understand. How is capping mythics helping someone with little play time. I have not so much playtime and limiting other players attempts on m+ would change nothing for me. There will always be others with better gear, that's how the game is and always was. It requires dedication and time and hard mythic content is no a lot of fun with randoms, so a group is required that plays together more often than once in a while. I would join such a group, but why should such a group take me for example. They could not depend on me being ready to play like they could with more dedicated players.