7.1.5 Blue Post

[Deleted]

This is the blue post about the 7.1.5 changes on MM hunter

Marksmanship Hunter:
We agree with players that Marksmanship currently relies far too much on Patient Sniper not only to do good damage, but also to make the rotation feel fun and rewarding. As such, we’re changing baseline Vulnerability to essentially bake in Patient Sniper, and adding a new Patient Sniper talent in its place. We are also adjusting some talents to allow for more diversity within talent rows and reflect the change to the base rotation. In particular, the Level 100 row: while Sidewinders was commonly used in all situations for its effects on the rotation, we’d rather the base rotation felt fluid on its own, and Sidewinders was a talent focused on the wide-area cleave that is its most clear purpose. Among other changes to help with this, Marked Shot no longer requires the targets to have Vulnerable to do strong damage, so builds without Sidewinders will be able to use it more effectively.

I dont understand this part

Among other changes to help with this, Marked Shot no longer requires the targets to have Vulnerable to do strong damage

What they mean? They will buff the base damage of the Marked Shot?

[Deleted]

That's what it sounds like.

That way, SW will remain the true AoE Cleave talent, without having to rely on it for a proper ST rotation. Like it should be - it depends on how they tune it though and whether they are, or are not, shittalking.

It will also mean that Marked Shot doesn't get buffed by Vulnerable anymore. Otherwise it would either be pointless, because the base damage would still be too low, or overpowered. The only way to fix that would be to make Vulnerable a 25-50% damage buff, and increase base damage of AiS/MS so that they deal damage without the buff.


However, if the new SW doesn't apply Vulnerable anymore, the damage window uptime for AiS is too small. You'll only be able to shoot AiS after each Marked shot... and that is extremely limiting.

[Aldare]

In particular, the Level 100 row: while Sidewinders was commonly used in all situations for its effects on the rotation, we’d rather the base rotation felt fluid on its own

Hopefully this means we'll see some change to focus generation with Arcane Shot, as that feels horrible at the moment, as well as an increase in Marking Targets procs.

[Heltoray]

that sounds to me like they are already pretty much done and there will be nothing in regards of real buffs or changes to make the spec fun. I smell huge disappointment

[Bepples]

that sounds to me like they are already pretty much done and there will be nothing in regards of real buffs or changes to make the spec fun. I smell huge disappointment

Just do what the fanboys do and claim that an imminent number pass will fix everything, and then just act like you never said that when it inevitably doesn't happen!

[PewPewArrowz]

You're forgetting that AiS overall damage is buffed on PTR (to compare), vulnerable AiS on live = no vulnerable AiS on PTR. At least thats how it was a couple days ago, and concerning this change, tbh I don't see any difference to what it is now, maybe we'll be a tad better for ST but rotation wise it'll be the same. Have to check PTR again to see changes in talents again n stuff, also for people with legendary belt, I don't think they'll switch out of SW unless they nerf its damage completely.

[Youn]

Hopefully, they are not looking at our numbers vs the out of combat dummies and saying that looks fine.

Their description on that blue post is what we have implemented is what we intended to do. Hopefully you will go to using arcane shot over sidewinders and since everyone picked patient sniper anyways, we just baked it into the spec.

The rest of the row is still pretty worthless. As Sentinels just kind of hangs over one place and tosses a hunters mark randomly underneath it. You're far better off taking patient sniper. And of course, as long as explosive shot remains a skill shot. It's dead.

Barrage vs Volley. Barrage took a serious damage nerf. It doesn't put up marking shot on other targets costs alot of focus to fire. Volley, counts as an autoshot. This means it can put up marking shot. And if you fire a Marked Shot all marking shot targets will gain Vulnerability off the wind arrows.

Sidewinders means you cannot take trick shot which has now become a very good talent when combined with volley. And a single multi-shot can quickly put up hunters mark in the place of sentinel.

[marjolaine]

On the PTR right now nothing has changed with marked shot so hopefully that change is incoming. Agree also I hope they don't look at the dummy damage for aimed shot as it currently counts as out of combat which in 7.1.5 aimed shot does 100% increased damage if used out of combat

[Deleted]

You're forgetting that AiS overall damage is buffed on PTR (to compare), vulnerable AiS on live = no vulnerable AiS on PTR.

This is wrong, if they didn't buff the dmg since the first ptr patch. While the base dmg was buffed, vulnarable was nerfed to 100% from 150. Also AiS does 100% more dmg against out of combat targets. Conveniently target dummies always count as out of combat.

It wouldn't surprise me if blizzard also doesn't know this and do their simulation against target dummies.

[Finbezz]

Hopefully, they are not looking at our numbers vs the out of combat dummies and saying that looks fine.

Their description on that blue post is what we have implemented is what we intended to do. Hopefully you will go to using arcane shot over sidewinders and since everyone picked patient sniper anyways, we just baked it into the spec.

The rest of the row is still pretty worthless. As Sentinels just kind of hangs over one place and tosses a hunters mark randomly underneath it. You're far better off taking patient sniper. And of course, as long as explosive shot remains a skill shot. It's dead.

Barrage vs Volley. Barrage took a serious damage nerf. It doesn't put up marking shot on other targets costs alot of focus to fire. Volley, counts as an autoshot. This means it can put up marking shot. And if you fire a Marked Shot all marking shot targets will gain Vulnerability off the wind arrows.

Sidewinders means you cannot take trick shot which has now become a very good talent when combined with volley. And a single multi-shot can quickly put up hunters mark in the place of sentinel.

????? "volley counts as an autoshot so it applies marking shot". You realize that's not how the passive works, right? Autoshots give you marking targets, causing the next arcane shot/sidewinders to apply hunter's mark which allows marked shot to be used and apply vulnerable. Your post literally doesn't make sense.

"And if you fire a Marked Shot all marking shot targets will gain Vulnerability off the wind arrows." wtf are you talking about? Marked shot only hits things with hunter's mark applied to them which is whatever sidewinders/arcane shot/multi-shot hit after a marking targets proc.

You're literally talking nonsense.

[Arenis]

Does this affect aimed shot in pvp in any way? Currently on live pvp, aimed shot during vulnerable hits for 95k and crits for 130k, which is just pathetic tbh

[Thursley]

Okay, at the least this seems like a reasonable design path. Vulnerable uptime will be lower, but damage outside of vulnerable is higher to compensate. Sidewinders will still be great for applying Hunter's Mark to wide arrays of enemies, but not unbeatable on single target because it allowed for maximum vulnerable uptime. Marked Shot essentially unchanged because it won't rely on vulnerable (I mean, it'll change your focus-pooling timing). Having lower maximum focus will take some getting used to, but the new patient sniper seems like it could lead to an interesting, if risky/volatile, gameplay style.

Now we have to see if they can manage the tuning for all this. Fingers crossed.

[Youn]

"And if you fire a Marked Shot all marking shot targets will gain Vulnerability off the wind arrows." wtf are you talking about? Marked shot only hits things with hunter's mark applied to them which is whatever sidewinders/arcane shot/multi-shot hit after a marking targets proc.

You're literally talking nonsense.

If you fire a marked shot at a target and the other targets have marking shot on them the wind arrows generated by the "Call of the Hunter" artifact trait will put vulnerability on all targets that don't have it on them already. Log onto the PTR and try it.

[Finbezz]

If you fire a marked shot at a target and the other targets have marking shot on them the wind arrows generated by the "Call of the Hunter" artifact trait will put vulnerability on all targets that don't have it on them already. Log onto the PTR and try it.

"have marking shot on them" Huh? Do you mean hunter's mark? "Marking shot" is not a debuff.

[Youn]

Play around with it. You will see that targets without hunters mark can be hit because your hitting them with volley and suddenly gain Vulnerability. Without ever changing your single target rotation. Because, the wind arrows off "Call of the Hunter" don't always pick the target your targeting.

[Finbezz]

Play around with it. You will see that targets without hunters mark can be hit because your hitting them with volley and suddenly gain Vulnerability. Without ever changing your single target rotation. Because, the wind arrows off "Call of the Hunter" don't always pick the target your targeting.

I am unable to download PTR at the moment. This *really* sounds like a bunch of weird bugs because there have been no talk about any of this changing. If possible I'd like others to corroborate what you're saying.

[eschatological]

Are you saying the cleave from Volley procs a hunter's mark on things it hits?

Or maybe you're saying volley has a really high chance to proc Marking Targets to put up lots of HMs, because the cleave counts as "autoshot" damage?

[Youn]

After checking it again once I got home it appears it no longer is doing that effect. It appears you now have to fire a multi-shot in order to spread the shots around.

It now appears that my Marked shot hits for exactly 144k each time. And my aimed shots can spike all the way upto 1.7 million on the dummy. Which I would guess is 850k on a normal target.

[Deleted]

Nerf Sw so people consider Shot.
Nerf barrage so people has a clear st talent and a clear AOE talent

Meanwhile in Azeroth...LW - L&L - PS still seems superior to others on 7.1.5

In my optimistic nature,right now ,(on the next build) I fear for LW -L&L more than anything ...and,fuck,now that i think about it,coherence is important, nerf PS too and call it a day.Dont even wait to release..

[Youn]

So, looking at numbers and adjusting in the aimed shot in half not shooting at the dummy. I am trying to figure out why you would fire Marked Shot in any situation that doesn't include multi-target.
These are based off my numbers and normalized so that Autoshot is 1.0

Autoshot		1.0
Volley			1.57 
Arcane Shot		2.1
Marked Shot		5.18
Call of The Hunter	2.39
Aimed Shot 0		6.08
Aimed Shot 1		13.08
Aimed Shot 2		13.99
Aimed Shot 3		14.91
Aimed Shot 4		15.82
Aimed Shot 5		16.73
Aimed Shot 6		17.65
Windburst 		15.06
Multi-shot		0.69
Sidewinders 		3.87