[TV] The Flash!

[Jetstream]

The only way they could pull off a repeat of "X is secretly the villain all along" is if Julian himself doesn't know he is Alchemy. I could also see Alchemy being who Julian was in Flashpoint, and now there's either two of them, or a hidden personae.

Well, I mean, that is Dr. Alchemy's whole bit. At least the original one.

[apepi]

Well, I mean, that is Dr. Alchemy's whole bit. At least the original one.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather it not be either of them. Can't we just have an average person once and a while?

[Jetstream]

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather it not be either of them. Can't we just have an average person once and a while?

No idea. I just know that in standard DC, Dr. Alchemy/Mr. Element really does have bullshit-comics-DPD. Or did, I guess, back in the day.

[Khime]

Well, I mean, that is Dr. Alchemy's whole bit. At least the original one.

I'd forgotten that bit about him. Could still be a red herring. I mean, Julian Albert by day, Albert Desmond by night?

[Svifnymr]

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather it not be either of them. Can't we just have an average person once and a while?

It would be amusing if Savitar takes the focus and big things are happening and then around like episode 21 they realize they lost track of Alchemy this entire time when he pops up with a horde of powered people.

[Gemini Soul]

It would be amusing if Savitar takes the focus and big things are happening and then around like episode 21 they realize they lost track of Alchemy this entire time when he pops up with a horde of powered people.

The focus on a speedster and at the end there is a horde of powered people...that is Zoom and his army of meta's when they invaded E1 What you find amusing is just a rehash of the last season...

[Svifnymr]

The focus on a speedster and at the end there is a horde of powered people...that is Zoom and his army of meta's when they invaded E1 What you find amusing is just a rehash of the last season...

Nyah, there's plenty of differences between the speedster being the focus and plot, while the original guy goes unmasked for the entire season, continuing to do what he was doing. I had even sort of hoped that the two (Alchemy and Savitar) weren't connected, but perhaps competitors, though the Rival jail-scene contradicts that. It's just another trope I'm tired of, the villains all waiting in line to fight the hero, rather than a divergent cast of bad guys off doing stuff. At least season1 had a purpose in Flash leveling up, since then it's really just felt tired.

[Reg]

Malfoy has shown up for Alchemy class.

[Khime]

What a wholly original and totally unexpected plot twist. Not. Damn it.

I mean, it was the most obvious answer as to who Alchemy was, I was just hoping that they'd manage to surprise us with something original.

[Kalcheus]

Ok, so who's Greg Grunberg going to end up being? I can't imagine they added him just to be a cop.

EDIT: Per Emergency Awesome, it may have just been a favor for Kevin Smith.

[Mehrunes]

Alchemy reveal was utterly predictable. As someone complained after last episode, of course it had to be someone from the main cast or connected to the main characters. What's next, Savitar is Dante after he was fucked over by the Flashpoint? Captain Singh? The new fat detective?

Also, while Iris did comment on that (so at least some points for awareness for the Flash creators), it's still stupid that Caitlin blames Barry for her powers when she was hiding them for months and could have very well had them even prior to Flashpoint.

And, finally, with how fast Savitar is, he should have been able to kill both Caitlin and Cisco the moment they appeared and get back to Barry before his body even changed position due to gravity. The Flash created a new trope (of the shit variety): plot-induced slowness.

[Khime]

Alchemy reveal was utterly predictable. As someone complained after last episode, of course it had to be someone from the main cast or connected to the main characters. What's next, Savitar is Dante after he was fucked over by the Flashpoint? Captain Singh? The new fat detective?

It was utterly predictable, but I had held out hope that the writers would surprise me with a twist. I was so disappointed with that reveal.

And, finally, with how fast Savitar is, he should have been able to kill both Caitlin and Cisco the moment they appeared and get back to Barry before his body even changed position due to gravity. The Flash created a new trope (of the shit variety): plot-induced slowness.

Maybe it's that stupid faith I keep having in the writers, but I'm hoping that his speed is not what it seems. He zips Flash around like a rag doll, and bounced Rival around in his cell, but maybe he can't with...

Bah, nevermind. I had a thought that maybe he could only "outrun" speedsters by interacting with them from within the Speed Force, and he was otherwise limited, which is why he's needing Alchemy's help. But Savitar took out all of those cops without slowing down, so yeah, he could've stopped Caitlin easy. Then again, he was also ignoring Joe shooting at him, so maybe he either was so focused on Barry both times that he didn't bother sparing any attention for anyone else, or else he was so supremely confident that he didn't think Joe or Caitlin were a threat, and just happened to be wrong about Caitlin....

No no no no no, damnit, we already know from the acolyte that Savitar has "special plans" for Killer Frost, and has already seen her future! So he would have known all about her! ARGH.

[ravenmoon]

Alchemy reveal was utterly predictable. As someone complained after last episode, of course it had to be someone from the main cast or connected to the main characters. What's next, Savitar is Dante after he was fucked over by the Flashpoint? Captain Singh? The new fat detective?

Also, while Iris did comment on that (so at least some points for awareness for the Flash creators), it's still stupid that Caitlin blames Barry for her powers when she was hiding them for months and could have very well had them even prior to Flashpoint.

And, finally, with how fast Savitar is, he should have been able to kill both Caitlin and Cisco the moment they appeared and get back to Barry before his body even changed position due to gravity. The Flash created a new trope (of the shit variety): plot-induced slowness.

For once, I completely agree. For Caitlin, I just assumed it was frost powers messing with her head. That's why she blames Barry - or I think that's what they want us to believe.

- - - Updated - - -

It was utterly predictable, but I had held out hope that the writers would surprise me with a twist. I was so disappointed with that reveal.Maybe it's that stupid faith I keep having in the writers, but I'm hoping that his speed is not what it seems. He zips Flash around like a rag doll, and bounced Rival around in his cell, but maybe he can't with...

So did I , but the larger hope vanished when I realised he was Malfoy - and i know American TV cast directors.. they are infuriatingly predictable - going by role image rather than the actor. Hey America knows you as Malfoy - evil side dude, "going to be constantly cast in similar roles" - I'm always glad when good actors, .. well when any actor in the U.S. actually gets a good gig with a completely even opposite role to the previous.. they seem few and far between.

[Soul Hermit]

Caitlyn was kick ass this episode!
And Iris really had a nice moment with Barry, too.
Regardless of the obvious reveal, it was a really good episode in my opinion.

[apepi]

Yeah, like I said before, I really wish they did not make him Alchemy.

And...Caitlin totally kissed Barry.

[Jetstream]

*watches the last scene in yesterday's episode*

I may have a heart attack and die of not surprise.

Also, while Iris did comment on that (so at least some points for awareness for the Flash creators), it's still stupid that Caitlin blames Barry for her powers when she was hiding them for months and could have very well had them even prior to Flashpoint.

And, finally, with how fast Savitar is, he should have been able to kill both Caitlin and Cisco the moment they appeared and get back to Barry before his body even changed position due to gravity. The Flash created a new trope (of the shit variety): plot-induced slowness.

A) Does Caitlyn seem rational to you?

B) Have we seen Savitar directly effect anyone who isn't a Speedster? Legitimately curious, cuz I don't remember. I'm wonder if he can even touch someone who isn't a Speedster. If he's, like, a Speed Force entity or some shit...?

[Kalcheus]

B) Have we seen Savitar directly effect anyone who isn't a Speedster? Legitimately curious, cuz I don't remember. I'm wonder if he can even touch someone who isn't a Speedster. If he's, like, a Speed Force entity or some shit...?

Doh! Of course. I was thinking he couldn't interact with non-Speedsters because he killed Rival, but Rival is a speedster duh.

So yeah, my guess is that Savitar can only interact with people who use the speedforce.

[Khime]

B) Have we seen Savitar directly effect anyone who isn't a Speedster? Legitimately curious, cuz I don't remember. I'm wonder if he can even touch someone who isn't a Speedster. If he's, like, a Speed Force entity or some shit...?

Doh! Of course. I was thinking he couldn't interact with non-Speedsters because he killed Rival, but Rival is a speedster duh.

So yeah, my guess is that Savitar can only interact with people who use the speedforce.

That was my vague hope too, but as I pointed out, he killed those cops before grabbing Barry. Lifted one up and broke him, tossed around others, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Regardless of the obvious reveal, it was a really good episode in my opinion.

I agree that it was a really good episode... right up until the obvious reveal.

[Svifnymr]

No no no no no, damnit, we already know from the acolyte that Savitar has "special plans" for Killer Frost, and has already seen her future! So he would have known all about her! ARGH.

How about Savitar is from a future, now lost due to Flashpoint. He journeyed back, but (unlike other time remnants) he has limited resources in his ability to affect others. Or, perhaps, he cannot harm Named Characters because they are important to bringing about his future. Perhaps even the cops were able to get ragdolled because of the Philosophers Stone presence?

He definitely seems a mental presence more than a physical one, or at least out of phase with reality.


Sadly, there is also the Mook Rule. It's entirely possible that he cannot interact with anyone but speedsters, but they forgot about mooks needing to be ragdolled. Same way Arrow can swear off killing, let Merlyn live repeatedly, while sticking arrows in every random guy without a cast credit.

[Feredir]

It was utterly predictable, but I had held out hope that the writers would surprise me with a twist.

You want a surprise twist...how about Savitar is so fast that he's also Dr Alchemy. He hears Savitar in his head, but its an auditory illusion. In reality he has dual personalities coupled with selective amnesia, so he doesn't remember being Savitar when he's Alchemy, and vice versa. Hokey, yes I know, but still better than the obvious reveal imo.