Computer Forum Chat Thread

[Artorius]

With SVP I force mine to have 60 fps. Mwhahahaha!

You force yours to have multiple artifacts

[apepi]

You force yours to have multiple artifacts

Not really. Every now and then I get a few dropped frames and presentation glitches, but they are mostly from starting the thing up. There are a few while the video actually plays, but they are not noticeable to the human eye.

[Artorius]

Not really. Every now and then I get a few dropped frames and presentation glitches, but they are mostly from starting the thing up. There are a few while the video actually plays, but they are not noticeable to the human eye.

[apepi]

I don't think your doing it right...

I did have some artifacting when I first started using all this crap...but having the right settings helped a lot.

[Artorius]

I don't think your doing it right...

I did have some artifacting when I first started using all this crap...but having the right settings helped a lot.

I'm not doing it, this is straight from their website. I tested it long time ago but the artifacts were just terrible and also was the soap-opera effect. I did test it with the anime oriented settings that make it less bad, but even then it was still bad =(

But I mean, I'm incredibly picky with video related stuff so what I find distracting and unacceptable might be ok for normal people.

[Xuvial]

also was the soap-opera effect.

I've set mine to 48fps (double source) for the perfect balance between choppiness and soap opera effect. No artifacts noticed either. Haven't touched any other settings, had it running this way for nearly a year now.



I'm using an older version I think.

[Artorius]

I've set mine to 48fps (double source) for the perfect balance between choppiness and soap opera effect. No artifacts noticed either. Haven't touched any other settings, had it running this way for nearly a year now.
http://i.imgur.com/cO7o9de.jpg
I'm using an older version I think.

Well with 48fps "content" you're going to get judder in a 60Hz, 75Hz and 120Hz displays. 144Hz is safe because you can just repeat each frame 3 times. I find it counter intuitive since you're already interpolating in the time domain fabricating "fake" frames that aren't perfect.

Let's use a 60Hz display for the following example since it's what is the most common nowadays.

This is a 23.976fps video being displayed at it using the "default" method, 3:2 pull-down:



A A A B B A A A B B A A A B B A A A B B A A A B B

Since 60 isn't an exact multiple of 24 there's no way to simply repeat each frames X times and be happy, so what we do is repeat odd frames 3 times and even frames 2 times. This causes a problem in the time domain because the intended motion is lost (half the frames are being displayed for 50% longer than the other half), which can be perceived as judder.

One of the techniques with the most fidelity to the original content is doing frame blending when needed, "the most fidelity" because you won't be "creating" any new frames using interpolation but rather meshing two of the existing frames into a transitional frame:



Which results in A A A+B B B A A A+B B B A A A+B B B

Now instead of repeating half of the frames 1 extra time, you're blending two frames eliminating the problem in the time domain while causing some ghosting in this specific frame. This method is the method that is the closest to native 24fps playback without any motion problems preserving the intended content.

Then they thought about blending every single frame into the next one which indeed makes it feel super smooth, but also blurry:



I don't particularly like this method but it doesn't create artifacts, just like the previous one.

And then you have interpolation which literally create new frames to close the gap between existing frames, that's what SVP does:



It is the most expensive and also the smoothest method, and it theoretically speaking is capable of creating the best results if the algorithm was perfect. The algorithm obviously isn't perfect though, which results in artifacts, mismatched motion and other problems. It also doesn't preserve the intended content since it tries to "expand" it.

[Xuvial]

144Hz is safe because you can just repeat each frame 3 times.

I do have a 144hz, no judder to speak of here

Also on a slightly different (but related) topic - I have trouble believing that judder/tearing is actually even noticeable on 120-144hz monitors, and I feel adaptive sync methods like gsync/freesync are pointless at those refresh rates.

This is something I haven't been able to find much discussion on, since it's a bit subjective and people often just respond with "bruh the tearing exists!".

Yes, tearing always technically happens when refresh rate isn't perfectly divisibile by framerate. No doubt about that. At 60hz it is quite evident.
But on a 144hz screen that "tear" appears for a maximum duration of 7 milliseconds (ridiculously short) before the screen refreshes again and the tear is gone. I find it difficult to believe anyone can notice that, let alone to the point it actually affects their gaming experience. *shrug*

[Artorius]

There's no judder from 24fps content in a 120Hz monitor (repeats each frame 5 times) or in a 144Hz one (repeats each frame 6 times). Tearing should be noticeable regardless of the display's refresh rate but the extent of how much it bothers you depends on the individual =p

[DeltrusDisc]

I'm so torn on this subject.

HAHAHAHA.

[Remilia]

I'm so torn on this subject.

HAHAHAHA.

It's stuff.
Though I understand it I usually only concern my self to image related stuff.

[DeltrusDisc]

Please tell me you got the pun.

[apepi]

I'm so torn on this subject.

HAHAHAHA.

It is such a polar issue.

[Remilia]

Please tell me you got the pun.

Yes, but I hate puns 99.999999999999999% of the time.

[Alindra]

Yes, but I hate puns 99.999999999999999% of the time.

Man, Artorious is such a party pooper. I laughed, @DeltrusDisc.

I took a "Unix stream" so we used "one true brace" style.

I've seen several different styles before, but I can't recall ever hearing them named, and - oh my - are there are lot of them. It looks like I tend to follow the Allman style.

I'm not trying to argue that ISO style indentation is an intentional optimization for a text editor from the late 1960s, but you have to admit it's probably the best syntax to work on if you don't even have "visual mode" or extended regular expressions yet.

It's an interesting point, though. There were limitations back then that we don't even have to think about now, like variable name length. (I've seen programs with a plethora of variables with gibberish names.) I wonder what kind of things we're limited by now that in the future we'll look back on and people will think "why did they do it like that?!"

At any rate, I don't have the personal experience of the times so it's easy for me to not even be aware of the possible connection between computers at the time and how it could influence an indentation scheme. My first programs were BAISC programs for the TI-85 graphics calculator. (I briefly tried to teach myself assembly, but it didn't end well, hah.) Other then that, it was Visual Basic in high school (ew) then Java/C++ in college (yes, they pushed emacs as an IDE).

When you start adding weird whitespace like GNU style this becomes more difficult, but what would you expect from the jerks who brought us emacs?

Hah! I never really learned emacs that well. I was still thinking that GUIs were king and all those "funky commands" were just plain obtuse. Now I grimace when I have to take my hands off the keyboard to use the mouse for something when programming. (I'm looking at you Visual Studio. Some of your interfaces are just godawful. Why are there fixed sized property pages for lists that can get really long? Ugh!)

-----

A while back I mentioned that I dropped my phone and cracked the screen. At the time, it seemed like pretty much everything was functioning perfectly. Welp, I've discovered something that didn't - the IR sensor. Turns out that when I make a phone call, the screen will stay shut off even when I pull it away from my head. What's this mean? I can't hang up, use the virtual keypad, etc. :|

/sigh
For what I use it for, I don't really think upgrading it is necessary from a performance standpoint.

[DeltrusDisc]

During all this major basement cleanup - I've practically played no video games over the last couple weeks... I'm pondering if I should move my desk at all. Change the setup at all a bit? Maybe... I've begun tearing down my drumset so I can finish cleaning up, vacuum, etc. I'm also burnt out on WoW right now, I went HARDXCOR3 on Legion, if I wasn't working, pretty much, I was playing WoW.

I've thrown out/recycled SO MUCH STUFF. It's insane. I'm thankful I'm not a true hoarder, just a pseudo-hoarder. I finally got the rest of the unopened beer out of the basement and sure enough all but one bottle pretty much were bad, though there's like 2 bottles left now in the refrigerator from the basement stash, pretty sure they're bad too, but anyways, that opened up a solid area of floor space... Cut down my beer bottle 'collection' and so I was able to put more on the book shelf. I'll be trying to cut it down more...

This is going swimmingly.

So many dead bugs on the floor. Yeah guys... not much to eat in a basement, better luck outside. =|

[Artorius]

I'm trying to find something to purchase, no clue what though. It's the black friday effect =(

[DeltrusDisc]

Black Friday is dumb.

Happy buy nothing day!

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I'm trying to find something to purchase, no clue what though. It's the black friday effect =(

Blizz has Overwatch digital CE for half price so I got that.

[Iapetus]

Ok. I don't think this question warrants a thread of its own so I'm asking here. What's the relative 'power level' of the builds that get posted on MMO-C every month? The Puppy, Dolphin, Narwhal, Unicorn things. I'm finally in a situation where I can build a PC and there's Black Friday sales going on. I'm just a complete idiot when it comes to looking at parts and specs and knowing how 'good' the end result might be. Hope this isn't too vague haha.