is that big sexy beautiful wall going to be built?

[Tijuana]

You're ignoring the part that the fences at prisons have barb wiring, are often electrical, and have guards all over. A prison is much smaller than say the entire boarder of Mexico / US.

If Trump were to build an actual wall that would be slightly more effective, though there would be people who could still get through. This also ignores that a lot of illegal immigrants come here with visas / greencards and simply overstay their welcome since getting reapproved and let back in the country is extremely difficult. If you're a poor immigrant with a family to feed, you don't take that risk.

I understand the sentiment behind the wall idea. But it is inheritly flawed and will not solve the issue, while simultaneously costing Americans tons of money with little to no payback. I'm sure jobs would be created to make the wall in the first place and boarder control would need a lot more people. But those making the wall would be out of a job once it is done.

I personally don't think he'll make the wall. He has already backpeddled on some of his other promises. I'll wait and see once he is actually in office, though if he does try to go through with the wall I don't see it realistically doing much good.

Ok, you guys have a fundamental problem going on here. It starts with you being a hard core partisan. Hard core partisans assume that everyone who says a single thing that is a tiny bit different from what they think is best, is in their mind, is their polar political opposite and/or Satan incarnate. Take a deep breath. Now another.

I have this weird fetish where I like to discuss ideas and facts. Some of my ideas and some of the facts oppose any one ideology. This makes it difficult for you guys to put me in one of your labeled boxes. I understand this can be confusing. I feel bad you kids grew up in a world where only tribalism matters, and individual thought is something they do only in the dystopian future movies. However, I digress.

1. Do I think walls are bad just for being walls? No
2. Do I think it's possible to climb a wall? Yes
3. Do I think it's possible to dig under a wall? Yes
(these last two were why I used the dog example earlier)
4. Do I think it's possible that a wall could be built that is very expensive? Yes
5. Do I think Donald Trump is the devil? No
6. Do I think walls need to be supervised in order to be effective? Yes
7. Do I think illegal immigration is a problem that we can dramatically improve on? Yes
8. Do I like the idea of immigrants coming to our country, in historic numbers, via the historic methods? Yes. Emphatically YES.
9. Do I think the Department of Health and Human Services is lying to us about how we may need to resume vaccinations we have ceased, due to illegal immigration from areas of the world less fortunate than us, who lack basic vaccination programs? No
10. Do I think a single poster here is interesting in having a discussion about the wall, in an honest and intellectually stimulating manner? I mean I was kind of hoping so but...

[Paranoid Android]

If you actually think a physical wall is gonna be built along the border then idk what to tell you. You might as well believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus at that point.

Well I do expect to have presents on Xmas Day.

[Auxora]

The wall itself as others have said isn't that relevant by itself. I guarantee there will be 50+ tunnels under the fence before it's even finished. What's more important and likely is that he'll vastly increase border patrol resources in terms of people, drones, sensor equipment, etc. People focusing on the wall apparently didn't see the El Chapo escape where they built a mile long tunnel with lights, ventilation, and a rail system, just to get 1 guy out. They are very good at it and the Border Patrol has said there are already an estimated 30+ working tunnels already under the border at any given time.

So build the wall or don't build the wall, but increasing 3x-4x the number of border patrol agents and funding for the border patrol will do far more for a lot less to slow illegal immigration than a wall will. Watch 30 minutes of a border patrol documentary and it's pretty clear that they are way outnumbered and essentially just trying to somewhat slow the tide of people. They would need way more help to come closer to stopping it.

[Rojaha]

Ok, you guys have a fundamental problem going on here. It starts with you being a hard core partisan. Hard core partisans assume that everyone who says a single thing that is a tiny bit different from what they think is best, is in their mind, is their polar political opposite and/or Satan incarnate. Take a deep breath. Now another.

I have this weird fetish where I like to discuss ideas and facts. Some of my ideas and some of the facts oppose any one ideology. This makes it difficult for you guys to put me in one of your labeled boxes. I understand this can be confusing. I feel bad you kids grew up in a world where only tribalism matters, and individual thought is something they do only in the dystopian future movies. However, I digress.

The irony.

[Tijuana]

You're the one who's already decided its worth it, even though you say it won't fix the problem. How much is it worth, then? Is there any point you would find the wall to be unacceptable?

I never said this. I literally never said, "I already decided it's worth it"

I never said that.

You cannot show where I said that, because I never said that.

I have yet to see a Trump wall plan, therefore I cannot ever say if I think it's worth it.

Did I mention the part where I DID NOT FUCKING SAY THAT?

[Tijuana]

When did mmo-c become full of libtards?

Are...Are you serious? I don't even....what?

[lazypeon100]

Ok, you guys have a fundamental problem going on here. It starts with you being a hard core partisan. Hard core partisans assume that everyone who says a single thing that is a tiny bit different from what they think is best, is in their mind, is their polar political opposite and/or Satan incarnate. Take a deep breath. Now another.

I have this weird fetish where I like to discuss ideas and facts. Some of my ideas and some of the facts oppose any one ideology. This makes it difficult for you guys to put me in one of your labeled boxes. I understand this can be confusing. I feel bad you kids grew up in a world where only tribalism matters, and individual thought is something they do only in the dystopian future movies. However, I digress.

1. Do I think walls are bad just for being walls? No
2. Do I think it's possible to climb a wall? Yes
3. Do I think it's possible to dig under a wall? Yes
(these last two were why I used the dog example earlier)
4. Do I think it's possible that a wall could be built that is very expensive? Yes
5. Do I think Donald Trump is the devil? No
6. Do I think walls need to be supervised in order to be effective? Yes
7. Do I think illegal immigration is a problem that we can dramatically improve on? Yes
8. Do I like the idea of immigrants coming to our country, in historic numbers, via the historic methods? Yes. Emphatically YES.
9. Do I think the Department of Health and Human Services is lying to us about how we may need to resume vaccinations we have ceased, due to illegal immigration from areas of the world less fortunate than us, who lack basic vaccination programs? No
10. Do I think a single poster here is interesting in having a discussion about the wall, in an honest and intellectually stimulating manner? I mean I was kind of hoping so but...

Dude, relax. I wasn't being partisian or saying you were wrong. I was pointing out something I thought you missed and then gave my input why I don't think it's a good idea.

I was literally just trying to engage you on the topic :/.

[Tijuana]

Dude, relax. I wasn't being partisian or saying you were wrong. I was pointing out something I thought you missed and then gave my input why I don't think it's a good idea.

I was literally just trying to engage you on the topic :/.

That's cool. I'm sorry if I over reacted. I just had to beat off like 6 of you guys putting words in my mouth, and assuming anyone who says they are wrong, is an alt-right fan who wore a KKK suit to vote Trump. I didn't even vote for Trump...

[Rojaha]

schizophrenic ranting

Is there any potential plan that could be put forth which you would object to? Is there a line in cost/time that you'd find objectionable?

Do you think the wall is integral to stopping cartels and terrorists? Do you think its the best way to increase border security?

[lazypeon100]

That's cool. I'm sorry if I over reacted. I just had to beat off like 6 of you guys putting words in my mouth, and assuming anyone who says they are wrong, is an alt-right fan who wore a KKK suit to vote Trump. I didn't even vote for Trump...

No worries. My dad is a former marine and has always leaned right (former republican, went independent about a year ago though) and I've always leaned left. I'd rather listen and talk to someone I disagree with than ignore what they have to say. And yeah, it's the internet. I don't exactly blame you for assuming I was trying to jump down your throat.

[Tijuana]

Is there any potential plan that could be put forth which you would object to? Is there a line in cost/time that you'd find objectionable?

Do you think the wall is integral to stopping cartels and terrorists? Do you think its the best way to increase border security?

Oh, you want to actually hear what I have to say? I thought you just wanted to tell me what I think, since you wanted to tell me what I said. "Schizophrenic ranting indeed"...

No, of course I do not blindly support any idea without seeing the price tag. I am, after all, a conservative. I ALWAYS want to do the math.

There are several issues regarding the funding:

1. Cost effectiveness
2. Portion of budget size
3. Who pays for it? (lol not Mexico)
4. Maintenance

I would object to number 1 at any time when the job could be better done by manpower and tech.

I would object to number 2 at any time where we had to harmfully cut, or borrow money to pay for this.

I would object to number 3 at any time that results in a trade war, or actual war with Mexico. (Just...lol though. This obviously won't DIRECTLY happen)

I would object to number 4 if the maintenance costs proved to be a burden going forward.

Why is it so hard for you little scamps to reconcile the two ideas that someone might be in favor of a wall, yet not a crazed racist Trump voter?

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Im sure that would be true except the american worker is never given an opportunity to get the job as the businesses prefer to give slave wages to illegals. If people TRULY wanted to stop the jobs being given to illegals a wall is not the answer. The businesses that pay these illegals should be punished and the punishment should hurt. Fines in excess of 10 million for each illegal found to be working. If the business has more than 10 employees then make it 100 million fine for each one. A message has to be sent to the business owners that the hiring of illegals will not be tolerated.

This should also be extended to immigration. If you hire someone on a working visa over someone who is qualified for the position from the US then the same fines are involved. Do a national advertising campaign encouraging people to dob in businesses. Make it a law that states that if you are not successful for a job you are told why and then told who got the job.

Sick of people taking your job? Don't blame the immigrant or the illegal. Blame the business who tell the American public to go fuck themselves and hired them.

I'm all for it.

[Tijuana]

Im sure that would be true except the american worker is never given an opportunity to get the job as the businesses prefer to give slave wages to illegals. If people TRULY wanted to stop the jobs being given to illegals a wall is not the answer. The businesses that pay these illegals should be punished and the punishment should hurt. Fines in excess of 10 million for each illegal found to be working. If the business has more than 10 employees then make it 100 million fine for each one. A message has to be sent to the business owners that the hiring of illegals will not be tolerated.

This should also be extended to immigration. If you hire someone on a working visa over someone who is qualified for the position from the US then the same fines are involved. Do a national advertising campaign encouraging people to dob in businesses. Make it a law that states that if you are not successful for a job you are told why and then told who got the job.

Sick of people taking your job? Don't blame the immigrant or the illegal. Blame the business who tell the American public to go fuck themselves and hired them.

I agree with nearly all of this. But, I would go one further on your last statement. Blame the government for letting it happen. We have laws that prevent this issue. Yet, we do not enforce them. The solutions to nearly all government problems start in the voting booth.

[zephid]

No, it will probably not be built.

[Rojaha]

Oh, you want to actually hear what I have to say? I thought you just wanted to tell me what I think, since you wanted to tell me what I said. "Schizophrenic ranting indeed"...

Dude, you keep quoting that post from pages ago. I already responded that its completely beside the point. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Clearly I misunderstood your point, I acknowledged that, and continued to try to ask my questions in a way that might be clearer to you. Yet you keep ignoring everything like a bull seeing red, and bringing it up and responding to that old post multiple times, and exploding in caps locks and profanity like a crazy person. You're so defensive and hostile that its impossible for anyone to engage or question you, without you going on a tirade about how everyone is partisan and labeling, which is pretty ironic. You complain about everyone accusing you of being an alt-right nazi. Funny enough, I get accused of being that too in other threads. Calm down. Follow your own advise. Don't make yourself look like the right wing version of the "anyone who doesn't explicitly agree with me is a nazi, I'm triggered, I'm triggered" people.

[Tijuana]

Dude, you keep quoting that post from pages ago. I already responded that its completely beside the point. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Clearly I misunderstood your point, I acknowledged that, and continued to try to ask my questions in a way that might be clearer to you. Yet you keep ignoring everything like a bull seeing red, and bringing it up and responding to that old post multiple times, and exploding in caps locks and profanity like a crazy person. You're so defensive and hostile that its impossible for anyone to engage or question you, without you going on a tirade about how everyone is partisan and labeling, which is pretty ironic. You complain about everyone accusing you of being an alt-right nazi. Funny enough, I get accused of being that too in other threads. Calm down. Follow your own advise. Don't make yourself look like the right wing version of the "anyone who doesn't explicitly agree with me is a nazi, I'm triggered, I'm triggered" people.

I wrote a lengthy reply to your question. Did you miss it perhaps? Scroll back up, yo.

If you don't want people to get angry, don't lie and accuse them of saying things they didn't say, including providing links to where they didn't say it. You are in the wrong, not me. There is no irony. I have not attacked you in partisan ways. I have not lied. I have not labeled your beliefs. I have not claimed you said things you did not. You have a very, very strange understanding of events, sorry. How many pages back are we not allowed to consider part of the discussion? I have no metric for that.

[Daedius]

Soon™

[Vash The Stampede]

No, because the wall would cost a fortune. If we're to build a wall, I suggest one between USA and Canada. Why? Because that's where all the cold air comes from. Make America Warm Again.

[Zelk]

From what I understand, the plan was to impose a 50% tax on all money wire transfers into Mexico via companies like western union.

- - - Updated - - -



Naaaa, seeing you upset about the election is enough for me

I thought tax was immoral now or something?

[LilSaihah]

Building a wall is too expensive.

Use landmines instead.

I thought tax was immoral now or something?

I'm not sure if it's a tax. It might be a tariff.