Something needs to be done about M+ and its negative impact on the game

[anaxie]

My shammy is 5/7M, which is decent for 5 hours a week raiding. My pally completed Realm first 15. I know how to gear and what matters. And I think you think it matters a lot more than it really does.

EN is fucking garbage tier tuning easiest shit since Naxx lvl80. It's not decent by my standard or by lesser standards. It's overlall fairly mediocre in my opinion.

and yes gear does matter in progression focused mythic guilds. You're WAY WAY down on the progression list. We don't share the same mentality and you aren't going to grasp what I'm saying if you havn't already.

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To progress in M+'s and the sense of improving ones character which is the essence of RPG's?

Raiding has never been more irrelevant then in Legion. 99% of the playerbase don't care who does Helya, and the like, on Mythic after the initial kill.

The real whiners these days are the minority, the raiders, that can't seem to be able to accept the leveled playing field, which has no bearing on their performance in said raids.

lol the denial is hilarious and blissfully ignorant of reality.

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I play both. I love D3 RoS. I actually started another season character again recently. From my experience, loving D3 is actually getting in the way of appreciating D3 features that Blizz tried to port to WoW since D3 makes you fully cognizant of how epically they failed.

Great!

but they are two different games and genres

smashing them together is mixing peanut butter and mustard.

[Christonya]

Capping M+ will do one of two things. 1: Effect nothing for those that only run the amount. or 2: cut off content to people who do more then the capped amount.

Ultimately, you arn't experiencing an issue with M+, your experiencing two issues, the first being bad luck. You havn't gotten upgrades and therefore have fallen behind in gear. This is a result of the terrible warforge system that they have in place, as well as going overboard on this "SUPER RNG LOOT IS FUN!!!" mentality. The second issue is your lack of time. Wow requires time, it's always been that way. If you don't have the time, that sucks, but that's not an issue with a system, its a personal problem.

[MrExcelion]

Nighthold heroic will have 890 base gear for whatever that's worth, a sort of gear reset is coming

[anaxie]

Capping M+ will do one of two things. 1: Effect nothing for those that only run the amount. or 2: cut off content to people who do more then the capped amount.

Ultimately, you arn't experiencing an issue with M+, your experiencing two issues, the first being bad luck. You havn't gotten upgrades and therefore have fallen behind in gear. This is a result of the terrible warforge system that they have in place, as well as going overboard on this "SUPER RNG LOOT IS FUN!!!" mentality. The second issue is your lack of time. Wow requires time, it's always been that way. If you don't have the time, that sucks, but that's not an issue with a system, its a personal problem.

WoW has since TBC launched till Legion never required the absolutely insane expansion launch to finish grinding this game requires now to keep up with progression.

To bring up the old Machinema video

You got to play WoW... You got to play every day

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Nighthold heroic will have 890 heroic gear base for whatever that's worth

and 5 mans are getting boosted ilvl base and higher top end cap. SOOOOOOOO?????

[Deleted]

Great!

but they are two different games and genres

smashing them together is mixing peanut butter and mustard.

Exactly this. Completely different pacing, monetization and just about everything else. That's why legendaries with game-changing affixes are awesome in D3 but cancer in WoW, greater rifts are awesome in D3 but sucky in WoW and same applies to just about everything else they tried to port. It was a lot more amusing when done in reverse, possibly because the core D3 team is a lot more competent (it felt really hilarious for my DH to loot a Corrupted Ashbringer )

[Zubacz]

EN is fucking garbage tier tuning easiest shit since Naxx lvl80. It's not decent by my standard or by lesser standards. It's overlall fairly mediocre in my opinion.

and yes gear does matter in progression focused mythic guilds. You're WAY WAY down on the progression list. We don't share the same mentality and you aren't going to grasp what I'm saying if you havn't already.

I think you have a real problem grasping the fact, that this thread is about a guy who plays up to 5 hours a week. Try to keep that in perspective when you answer.

[Deleted]

Why should people, who are capable and willing to, run more than 2 M+ a day be obstructed by your lack of interest or time?
The more you play, the more you should be rewarded of course.

Stop whining about people having more time to play the game, hence having better gear.

[Deleted]

I am and I did

What a constructive post you made

*slow ""impressed"" clap*

But:

EN is fucking garbage tier tuning easiest shit since Naxx lvl80. It's not decent by my standard or by lesser standards. It's overlall fairly mediocre in my opinion.

Something's not quite right... So either you did quit, then you wouldn't have any idea of how EN is tuned, or you didn't quit which kind of makes you a liar. Better get back to those Hookers that you mentioned, they might actually have more respect for you than the people you are attacking in this thread.

[lordzed83]

So wait if I dont raid YOU want me to have nothing to do ?? I always loved 5mans more than raids and i like higher diff m+s. Every week i run 30-40 pluses. If there was a cap on it i would quit due to having nothing to do.

Atm i log in and have stuff to do first time since wotlk there is always some way or chance to upgrade Your character LOVE IT !!!!

[Deleted]

You are right...

but 75% of THIS forum is a hardcore player base , adults younger then 30 , no children , no famility. they PLAY 5-6hours a day or more, thats why u get "flamed" a bit .

There are 3 main problems:

1. You HAVE to do atleast a +10 , better +12 to stay competetive early on , because you get a 880 item per week , which is a huge upgrade if you started to raid EN Mythic the first weeks.
2. if you want to get , atleast a second or third (usefull) legendary you have to spam aaaaaaalllooooottttt tons of higher mythic +, because other good sources of legendarys are limited ( raid IDs , wq only daly ).
3. the chance of geting titanforged gear is low yes , but if you spam mythic + for 4-5 hours a day thats means you can get hugggeee item level without even geting in a mythic raid. We have a guildy which is workless and spaming mythic + all the day.. he has better gear then all the EN mythic raiders , pretty strange.

[khalltusk]

snip

If you choose to be hardcore and don't like the requirements then maybe you are right to quit the game. I used to be hardcore and I can't ever see my self going back to the view point such as yours. Not saying its a bad view pont, just that I no longer share it.

If people feel forced to do such content and they really dont want to, they need to change guild or stop playing as you did. The minority should not demand changes to affect the rest of the player base

[fathom81]

I think you have a real problem grasping the fact, that this thread is about a guy who plays up to 5 hours a week. Try to keep that in perspective when you answer.

And add the fact that he said he didnt play since WoD...everyone has an oppinion even if its not theyre own.

[Christonya]

This is a result of the terrible warforge system that they have in place, as well as going overboard on this "SUPER RNG LOOT IS FUN!!!" mentality.

So pretty much this?

[Dominus89]

World first? Try any progression oriented guild. Clearly you have never been in one normie

I am in a progression guild right now and have been since I first started playing WoW.

If "normie" was to be considered as some kind of an insult, it was a pretty poor one at that.

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Also seriously fuck pug. Not everyone pugs. I'm talking about progression organized content. the foundation the game was built on.

It never was the foundation of the game. That it's a big part of the game does not mean its the foundation.

[Chemii]

Playing wow is actually a hobby, the same way normal hobbies require time investment - you get out, what you put in.

This has always been the case for wow, I don't understand this sudden switch in mentality that something has changed in Legion that makes the game less accessible for people with little time. Stop kidding yourselves.

If you don't have time to play, it's not a design problem - you simply don't have time or, as is most likely the case - you don't want to make time.

There are plenty of pick up & play games that require little investment. WoW isn't one of those titles.

[Glorious Leader]

The fact that you feel forced is a good thing. It means that content is worth doing.

[Haloswin]

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

Thing is you don't want to hear what they are telling you. You just want what YOU want...

There is NOTHING wrong with Mythic+, or being able to spam them. You have a problem with people who play more being able to get further along -- that's it, that's the crux of your entire argument. So instead of just accepting that time restraints are impacting your personal progression rate, you want to limit everyone else.. Yours is a selfish self serving argument that really doesn't merit anyone else's input because frankly the only thing you seemingly care about is you, you, you. Look, there is no one way to play this game. Some people can only play at night, others during the day, some on weekends, etc etc. Capping means limiting the pool and the opportunities for people who's lives force them to play outside of "normal" hours. Your argument that the current system caters to the small percentage of people that can dedicate a large amount of time to the game ignores that those people are available to EVERYONE including people with time constraints and odd play times.... Again .. you are only seeing how the situation is impacting YOU.

MMO's have always been time sinks. It sucks your schedule has changed and you can't dump as much as time in game as others but, your solution only serves to help keep others from progressing.

It's a you problem dude.. Deal with it.

[IntellectuallyChallenged]

Mythic+ has no negative impact on the game. You're reaching for something that isn't there. The only way it will have is if the players themselves make it look that way. Then again, they've been letting players destroy the game for over a decade now.

[dmfg]

If you're not in a world top 200 guild and you're not competitive in your raid, it's not because of mythic+ or AP (unless you don't have second golden yet I guess).

I'm artifact level 31. There's a guy in our guild who lives in NL mythic+ who has level 35. He has a couple of ilvl on me and his 4th golden. We were competitive on dps last tier, we are still competitive now. Seems fair that he gets a (tiny tbh) benefit for the hundreds of extra hours he invested into the game.

[anaxie]

Playing wow is actually a hobby, the same way normal hobbies require time investment - you get out, what you put in.

This has always been the case for wow, I don't understand this sudden switch in mentality that something has changed in Legion that makes the game less accessible for people with little time. Stop kidding yourselves.

If you don't have time to play, it's not a design problem - you simply don't have time or, as is most likely the case - you don't want to make time.

There are plenty of pick up & play games that require little investment. WoW isn't one of those titles.

another oblivious posters who clearly may have never accomplished a single noteworthy thing in the game.

Yes WoW was give and take on time investment.

now with the time investment the game just fucking eats your time with the absolute bare minimal feedback.

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I am in a progression guild right now and have been since I first started playing WoW.

If "normie" was to be considered as some kind of an insult, it was a pretty poor one at that.

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It never was the foundation of the game. That it's a big part of the game does not mean its the foundation.

i dont consider progressive guilds to be ones that do something in 2-3-4 months what the first 100 do in 2 weeks.

Then again I'm we aren't the same player and my viewpoint is only going to come off as insulting because of my standards.