Exorsus and their statement.

[Shrouded]

Exorsus certainly is a big factor in the world first race. And PvE, hardcore guilds, pessionate players is what made this game big in the first place.

Completely agreed, but that was a long time ago. The game isn't like that anymore (for better and worse), and hardcore raiding is a niché interest now more than ever. I used to raid pretty hardcore back in vanilla through WotLK so I know what it was like, but there's simply no going back to that.

[Gaucho-]

And the things that followed were completely useless information/opinions nobody cares about.

Why can't the high end guilds ever NOT be pathetic.

People flooded them with questions on what happened exactly, hence the official statement. This looks like a personal problem of you, more than a problem of these guilds stating what happened. Also, it was your choice reading further beyond the official statement part.

[Aggrophobic]

In WoD they didn't stop entire abilities from happening for the rest of the fight (Archimonde for example).

The problem was not that letting the tank die would stop a breath and its adds.
It was that afterwards Helya would not do breaths any more.

- - - Updated - - -


Because then there is no drama and we hear nothing of it.

I don't know. Monks on Blackhand?
Not my problem though. We didn't have a monk tank back then and we killed him. We'll get Helya as well, though our rather melee heavy team has problems even killing Odyn at this point so who knows.

Frustrating raid, that.

[tratra]

Its hard to give prices to so many people. Lets say they pull a 500k $ price for EN WF top 5 guilds. How you gonna split them towards people.

If you assume that everyone gets the same amount of money, and say they have 25 raiders per guild thats like 4k $ each...

$4k can you afford to live on that for 2 months? You'll still have to boost etc. And what about guild that ends up on top6 and won't get money...

Generally its very hard to create an e-sport out of it.

As for the streaming thing, they don't do it cause of tactics. We all know that there might be some guilds that have VERY VERY skilled players and then another guild that has skilled TACTICIANS. Are you gonna share the tactics with another guild? Thats not gonna work for anyone in reality.


I understand their pov that they need some money in order to be more hardcore but thats up to them. If exorsus wants money then they can definitely stream their race progress and maybe incentivise other guilds to do so, which won't happen but ok.

Also don't forget the race lasts days or weeks even depending on bosses. Lets say you get a boss like LK that lasted what 8 weeks until it was killed? will you watch for 8 weeks? its weird you just cant have an esport out of it and I think blizzard has realised that.

After all don't forget blizzard has a marketing team and its full of smart people if they saw an opportunity they would take it. There is just 0 chance that raiding can become esport.

Maybe M+ race could become an esport.

[Gaucho-]

Completely agreed, but that was a long time ago. The game isn't like that anymore (for better and worse), and hardcore raiding is a niché interest now more than ever. I used to raid pretty hardcore back in vanilla through WotLK so I know what it was like, but there's simply no going back to that.

I dont get the conclusion of your post? Pretty much anyone who is involved with high end raiding in WoW has a sub button on twitch and a ton of followers. I could name atleast 5 people for each guild with thousends of viewers daily. Great players wont ever be a niche in any game - and world first is what makes them big. I highly doubt I'd know of a Fragnance (who is the best single player in this world, IMO), if he wouldnt be raiding hardcore.

[Blackmist]

Hard to get excited for something that is over in two days, and doesn't come around again for months.

How about Mythic+ for raiding. Bring down the regular Mythic difficulty, then allow guilds to attack each boss and keep scoreboards of time to kill for each rank of M+ and boss. Eliminate split farming with personal loot only, and increased drop chance to offset that. Allow multiple M+ kills each week, and increase drop chance for each rank. So if +3 gives a 30% chance, and +4 gives 35%, killing +4 after +3 in a week gives 5% loot chance.

[Nikkaszal]

It was a cry. Nothing more.

Limit took it like men. Exorsus are looking to blame anyone or anything but themselves.

They abused an exploit. Everyone knows. They need to get over themselves.

[Deleted]

I really love how they tell everyone in the face that every top guild is somehow into real money trading because they see the game as more as just a game. Realism pure and no more sorry, no more excuse for anything that is not absolutely professional.

Start by paying taxes.

[coprax]

What do you think?

I think you should include said statement in your opening post, or do you want us to google it ourselves?

[Deleted]

"Solution to this issue is surprisingly easy: either let us exchange our 2-3 legendaries into a new one or just remove this softcap"


His solution showcases a lack of understanding, if they implemented his solution then it turns legendaries just into extra talents, that you choose based on what "BEST SPEC!!!" dictates. If everyone eventually has all 8 spec legendaries, then they became a annoyance, because then you are carrying them all, and additional regular loot, because you are switching based on boss.

Thus what went from exciting loot that slightly alters your character becomes a annoyance that you need macros for. I dont disagree that 4 legendaries per spec is horseshit, but perhaps a system where you can "sacrifice" a legendary, to then open a new slot would suffice, but even that has problems with it.


And that perfectly sums up hardcore raiding: its people treating the game as a job, as a obstacle, and then using that mentality to overcome it. No wonder they are asking for getting paid for it, because it has all the negatives of a job, except the perks: money.


As for the poster who said that these guilds were important and reason why the game is successful: i dont even know if you are trying to troll here. That is an absurd statement. The vast majority of players cannot even name a single top guild, nor a single top PVE player. Even competitive Arena has some personalities that are somewhat known. Mitch Jones shaving his head while playing Arena would get 10x the viewers that any of these guilds gets, doing any Mythic content.

He is putting the cart before the horse, there is no audience to support them getting paid any significant amount of money. Even Starcraft 2 which can get 50 to 60k viewers on a big tournament, is considered a dying esport game.

[klaps_05]

Exorsus statement just summarizes what forums are writing, so it is simply a poor way to try and mask the exploiting. Wowprogress needs to mark every single guild which has exploited instead of blizzard giving a joke of a suspension, especially when the guilds in question have the balls not only to blatantly admit what they have done but also arugantly cry how hard it is to be a hardcore raider.

when we were progressing through cata and mop and boosting all alts and mains, gathering millions of shit mats, pots, flasks, etc., writing addons to manage certain boss abilities, no one was writing shit and just did it.

exorsus' problem isnt that there is no pay for pve - their problem is that there are ppl who love the game and are willing to take weeks off and go crazy farm modes for free just to get there first. exorsus just wants to either get paid or force blizzard to limit every guild on how much they can dedicate to the game. also blizzard's prize pool for bcon arena is a complete joke, let alone if there was a pve award. if you want to earn money with games, go play CSGO and Dota 2 where there are real prizepools.

[Amerissis]

SSo it seems (as we all know) that it's not doing too well. Exorsus attributes that to Blizzard paying no attention to it whatsoever. I personally agree and feel that if Blizzard actually made it something to be hyped about and gave motivation to try and get world first aside from "bragging rights" the scene would absolutely flourish.

I'm glad they don't. It's apparent that it leads to exploiting, cheating, rule-breaking guilds and that is not something this game should have or promote.

Not only would the high end raiding scene be flooded with new blood but we would most likely see a return of old world first guilds. I feel like the high end raiding scene has a ton of potential. I wouldn't call it an esport but it would be something really cool to watch. How cool would it be to watch the world first guilds stream their progress as Exorsus mentioned? And whoever gets first gets the prize pool.

Not cool at all! Watching 600 pulls of some boss? I'd fall asleep. I don't even find the last pull interesting (wouldn't you rather play the game?), but I can understand it when someone enjoys watching that kill. I can't understand people enjoying 600 non successful pulls.

I really do feel like they brought up some good points and I also hope Blizzard takes them to heart and thinks about it. The community hypes up the world first scene a ton, now imagine if Blizzard actively promoted it added incentive to the race. It would flourish.
What do you think?

Tell me, what is the pro of the race? Why is it important that the race is promoted? I see none. Those top guilds should all be permabanned for cheating and selling runs for real money (screwing up the economy) and be done with it. The race is uninteresting and useless.

[Deleted]

well they could do some news about it once someone achieved world first.


that's literally 0 effort for blizzard.

[PowerOfTwo]

exorsus just wants to either get paid or force blizzard to limit every guild on how much they can dedicate to the game. also blizzard's prize pool for bcon arena is a complete joke, let alone if there was a pve award. if you want to earn money with games, go play CSGO and Dota 2 where there are real prizepools.

They tried to limit attempts in WotlK (Algalon / LK) and poeple just used an army of alts to learn the mechanics and burn thought attempts. Outside of accountwide (and account shareing says helo) lockout , you can't realy limit the amount of time spent on in M during the world first race. Personaly i find it kinda bullshit as even exorsus themselves admit , it's not down to skill , it's who can put in 14+ hr raid days the longest.

Class stacking, account sharing, split runs , 14+ Hr raid days... very little to killing a M boss comes down to skill. You just brute force the thing down, pull after pull you figure out what works and it'll eventualy go down. I remember archimonde world first took like... 550ish pulls to kill. Blackhand took like 700... and this was done wthin a week ffs. Thats not a demonstration of skill it's an endurance check... to quote Yahtzee "put your hand on a stove for 14 hours and you'll probably stop feeling the pain, sure, but that's because most of your hand burned off by that point"

Here's a thought.... server wide limited attempts?.... like you get a reasonable 250-500 pulls server wide of a M boss, and once those wipes are done, it's despawned for the week. I'd just love to see the M race put more emphasis on skill.

[Deleted]

[IMG]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]

[Deleted]

After reading the exorsus statement, which i must say it is very well written and explained, i can not but think how alien to the average players these top guilds are, provided they all more or less share the view of exorsus.
For starters, WoW is a game for me, a hobby, something i share with a bunch of internet friends, and sometimes with nice people i meet when playing.
I am gonna give the game in no way a higher value, because for some people is a way of living, professional gamers, so if the world race is being streamed or not, if the world race gives money or not, if dozens of guild take part in it or not, i ,as an average player, could not care less.
Only thing i care about is what i do, and what i can do in the game, a game i play for fun and entertaintment, not for making a living out of it, and not for profiting.
Also, i would like to know what does Blizz has to say about a guild, top or not, who openly talk about selling carries, not just for gold, but for real money.
I have already express in the past my opinion about boosting in the game, so i will not repeat myself.

[shonist]

they exploited so... theres nothing to talk here i guess.

[Lime]

who is exorusus and what is the statement about?

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...nd_some_other/

[Wilderness]

If you think there is cheating, exploiting, playing others accounts, and anything else to find a slight edge now - just add prizes and even more motivation for even more people to do whatever they think they can get away with to win. I don't think it would provide a great benefit to the high end raiding scene.

[Deleted]

[I]Mitch Jones shaving his head while playing Arena would get 10x the viewers that any of these guilds gets, doing any Mythic content.

Lol, I dont know who you are trying to troll here, but I have no fucking clue who is Mitch Jones, nor Im really interested if he plays some sideshow in wow...

If there was a stream of Leonardo di Cabrio shaving his balls, there would be 1000x more viewers than any fucking Mitch "meaningless" Jones, so whats your point?

e:

If you think there is cheating, exploiting, playing others accounts, and anything else to find a slight edge now - just add prizes and even more motivation for even more people to do whatever they think they can get away with to win. I don't think it would provide a great benefit to the high end raiding scene.

Tbh the reason for this kind of flawed race existing is because of so little attention paid on it. And when attention is paid, its only negative.
Still there is huge amount of people who are interested of it, there is long threads in MMO-C, people in Discord servers talking about it, bliz fan pages writing about it, every second average Joe looking at those guys armories and so on, list continues.