Something needs to be done about M+ and its negative impact on the game

[exeetor]

haha how can this even be an issiue?
Mythic+ keeps my main intressting now since I dont raid and frankly even thou I cant put in the same amount of time as others I still love doing them.
Why would "Someone else has better gear then me cause they can play more" be an argument to block them from doing content?
Put it like this. Having ALL that time to play might put them about 10-15 ilvls higher then you, thats it. Sure they might get accepted into higher Mythic+ groups for it but common... if you soo wanna play high-end mythic+ get a static group that you can play with instead.
And if ur not a hardcore player anylonger how can even ilvl be that important for you?
Do what you find fun ingame and stop comparing your character to someone who is clearly a hardcore player with tonnes of time on their hands (and whom would have even higher ilvl then you if there were no mythic+ cause they raid mythic raids while you would be stuck with low-ilvl gear from normal mythic dungeons).

[Gratlim]

The only issue as have with M+ is that it makes raids irrelevant. Mostly because never before one can jump into a new raid already overgearing everything before even killing the first boss. For me it is bad design. Unless Blizzard means true end game is no longer raiding if you want to progress your toon through gearing.

[anaxie]

But:




Something's not quite right... So either you did quit, then you wouldn't have any idea of how EN is tuned, or you didn't quit which kind of makes you a liar. Better get back to those Hookers that you mentioned, they might actually have more respect for you than the people you are attacking in this thread.

I'm informed on the game works wether I play or not.

I have an extensive 10 year history at the tippy top tier in this game. Yes I can spot shit tier difficulty especially when people I have known almost a decade, FIghts, and the developers themselves claim as such. Yeah AHA gotcha! I'm way out of your league peasant.

You want more proof armory me. I use the same name. Heroic/Mythic hardstop start of HFC

[Hyperborean]

who clearly may have never

Well that's a rollercoaster. Is it obvious? or a strict maybe? I'm on the edge of my seat here. DONT STOP! FLAME ON!

[exeetor]

The only issue as have with M+ is that it makes raids irrelevant. Mostly because never before one can jump into a new raid already overgearing everything before even killing the first boss. For me it is bad design. Unless Blizzard means true end game is no longer raiding if you want to progress your toon through gearing.

You meen raids are irrelevant for gear-upgrades. The raids are still there, they do what they always have done. its just that the first time you enter a raid its not balanced around the correct ilvl of the raid. Something Blizzard prob going to fix. ToV seems to be kidna alrite in difficulty.

[anaxie]

Well that's a rollercoaster. Is it obvious? or a strict maybe? I'm on the edge of my seat here. DONT STOP! FLAME ON!

I've been falling asleep between furiously posting in my chair. stick it out with me.

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Why should people, who are capable and willing to, run more than 2 M+ a day be obstructed by your lack of interest or time?
The more you play, the more you should be rewarded of course.

Stop whining about people having more time to play the game, hence having better gear.

implying this game has any rewards worth giving anymore.

[Deleted]

Mythic + is far very very very far from beeing the biggest problem in the game atm.

Fix legendaries, fix AP grind, fix talents... and then we can lookat mythic +. Actually fixing the AP problem would probably fix the problem you have with mythic +.

[Chemii]

another oblivious posters who clearly may have never accomplished a single noteworthy thing in the game.

Yes WoW was give and take on time investment.

now with the time investment the game just fucking eats your time with the absolute bare minimal feedback.

Oblivious to what exactly?

MMO's by their very nature are grindy, wow less so but every expansion if you didn't raid you were left behind. How is it that M+ dungeons have made an hour a day guy suddenly behind top end raiders?

You were always behind if that's all you've ever played - with your welfare epics and crafted gear for the last 12 years - when no such dungeons existed; your item level was relatively lower - or do you really think a 232 item level dungeon hero in wrath could compete with an ICC25 man heroic guy on DPS/HPS at 264?

The gaps have always existed for those people, it has nothing to do with the new mythic plus system.

[Dominus89]

i dont consider progressive guilds to be ones that do something in 2-3-4 months what the first 100 do in 2 weeks.

Then again I'm we aren't the same player and my viewpoint is only going to come off as insulting because of my standards.

Not because if your standards, but of your attitude towards people that dont share your opinion.
It's pretty obvious for everyone on this forum that you cant handle it when others dont agree with you.

By your logic only a handfull are progression guilds after EN mythic and same for ToV mythic.
You seem to forget that theres also competitions on a server level, not everyone aspires to be the best guild in the world.

[anaxie]

So wait if I dont raid YOU want me to have nothing to do ?? I always loved 5mans more than raids and i like higher diff m+s. Every week i run 30-40 pluses. If there was a cap on it i would quit due to having nothing to do.

Atm i log in and have stuff to do first time since wotlk there is always some way or chance to upgrade Your character LOVE IT !!!!

Yes.

I want to go back to the golden age of this game in Warcraft TBC. Where if I saw you stray too close to the Tempest keep or the Entrance to Sunwell someone eventually would steer your arm away like a small child asking. You lost little fella? nooo you dont go in there. Maybe one day but you? Nooo. Perhaps Kara is more your level!

Those were the good old days.

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Not because if your standards, but of your attitude towards people that dont share your opinion.
It's pretty obvious for everyone on this forum that you cant handle it when others dont agree with you.

By your logic only a handfull are progression guilds after EN mythic and same for ToV mythic.
You seem to forget that theres also competitions on a server level, not everyone aspires to be the best guild in the world.

I think it's the other way around.

I have a jolly great time debating and it usually devolves into a handful of posters furiously screwing at me to shut up and leave.

And well yeah. really at my level there are only 200 or so guilds worth noting. Everyone else is at a different level thats usually used as entertainment or helping out by gracing them with my presence when I played.

It's not ment to be offensive. Thats just the roles we were put in. When I played I was top 15 US guild in a pretty damn casual guild setting only logging average 20 MAX hours a week in entirety. despite this I was considered by thousands to be the authority of top 10 greatest players playing the spec. Its okay if some people are a big deal and help out the little people. I did my charity part in WoW plenty of times.

[Gratlim]

You meen raids are irrelevant for gear-upgrades. The raids are still there, they do what they always have done. its just that the first time you enter a raid its not balanced around the correct ilvl of the raid. Something Blizzard prob going to fix. ToV seems to be kidna alrite in difficulty.

That is what I meant yes. Thank you for clarifying. I mean it's nice to have M+ as an alternative way of gearing up, but it takes away a bit of raids attractiveness IMO.

[Hyperborean]

The only issue as have with M+ is that it makes raids irrelevant. Mostly because never before one can jump into a new raid already overgearing everything before even killing the first boss. For me it is bad design. Unless Blizzard means true end game is no longer raiding if you want to progress your toon through gearing.

The problem with raids is that it makes M+ irrelevant. If i got a free drop every time some filthy casual with a carry guild ends up in one of my M+ runs, I'd be 890+. They have no idea how to chain pull, no idea when to conserve their mana, and always pull stupid mobs that we don't need. especially now with ToV out, it's getting harder to tell of iLvl alone who has actually spent any time in dungeon, or even knows what basic affixes look like. especially locks. next time volcanic comes around, locks might as well just take a tent into EM, cause they are dead to me.

Frankly i wish Blizz would unlock the raids so that raider could stay where they are, cause im tired of their slow, clumsy, directionless, unrunes asses clogging up the perfect flow that would be my M+ run.

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I've been falling asleep between furiously posting in my chair. stick it out with me.

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I got a good laugh, well played

[khalltusk]

I got a good laugh, well played

You pug M+, you brave soul you!

[Hyperborean]

You pug M+, you brave soul you!

gotta get a fresh key somewhere

[anaxie]

Oblivious to what exactly?

MMO's by their very nature are grindy, wow less so but every expansion if you didn't raid you were left behind. How is it that M+ dungeons have made an hour a day guy suddenly behind top end raiders?

You were always behind if that's all you've ever played - with your welfare epics and crafted gear for the last 12 years - when no such dungeons existed; your item level was relatively lower - or do you really think a 232 item level dungeon hero in wrath could compete with an ICC25 man heroic guy on DPS/HPS at 264?

The gaps have always existed for those people, it has nothing to do with the new mythic plus system.

Legion is grindy as fuck. Grind? Please there was no grind the top tier rading back in Wotlk / Cata/ MoP

The game switched gears with the trademark blizzard knee jerk. Now it's a grindy RNG filled fucking mess. Denial is just hilarious and to say other expansions were grinding in any way by comparison is hilarious.

also of course if you dont raid you are left behind

thats how it should be.

Thats where the challenging content is. Thats where the centerpieces of the story take stage since the game was created. BIG surprise

lets also not forget how royally fucked and big a middle finger Legion threw towards PvPers.

[khalltusk]

gotta get a fresh key somewhere

God no! :P I only ever got two "random" people from the pug scene. We needed a 5th both times. 1st one was on our very first ever M+. We had 2 people die due to trash damage, but had plenty of time to clear the dungeon. Random dude just left and you can't replace him. We cleared it still missing the timer by 10mins with 4 people. 2nd time we were clearing fine no deaths on track for 3 chest. Dude said "GTG sorry". we had 2 bosses left! we cleared it and just missed 2 chest. Never again for M+ :P

[anaxie]

haha how can this even be an issiue?
Mythic+ keeps my main intressting now since I dont raid and frankly even thou I cant put in the same amount of time as others I still love doing them.
Why would "Someone else has better gear then me cause they can play more" be an argument to block them from doing content?
Put it like this. Having ALL that time to play might put them about 10-15 ilvls higher then you, thats it. Sure they might get accepted into higher Mythic+ groups for it but common... if you soo wanna play high-end mythic+ get a static group that you can play with instead.
And if ur not a hardcore player anylonger how can even ilvl be that important for you?
Do what you find fun ingame and stop comparing your character to someone who is clearly a hardcore player with tonnes of time on their hands (and whom would have even higher ilvl then you if there were no mythic+ cause they raid mythic raids while you would be stuck with low-ilvl gear from normal mythic dungeons).

quote who you are talking to next time because I have no idea what this rant is about and if it's directed at me lol@you

[khalltusk]

The fact that you feel forced is a good thing. It means that content is worth doing.

I know you're someone (based on past interactions at least) who enjoyed 5 man content, are you playing this expansion? Just curious to know what you think of dungeons so far. For me Kara has been the icing on what has been an enjoyable cake so to speak. I've not done the speed run yet, we've had a couple of goes at it and e're just 3mins out of doing it so far. No doubt we will give it another go soon and actually get it done. But i'm in no rush to do it as i'm just enjoying the game and doing bits here and there.

[Deleted]

Blizzard aren't going to cap or nerf Mythic+ because a tiny irrelevant minority of turboautists feel "forced" to run it. You could all quit tomorrow and it'd be a unnoticeable blip on the radar.

[bromanbro]

Mythic+ is fine. NH will have Tier, which will make it far better than Mythic+ for gearing.