Huge Feral Nerfs

[Lycanoth]

They could easily separate the two. Don't just assume is nerfed because PvP without evidence. It is more likely they think it needs toned down for everyone, which is why they toned it down for everyone not just PvPers, which they are more than capable of doing.

Of course they can easily separate them but they have yet to do so in over a decade.

It is PvP specific. Blizzard is trying to get rid of the bleed and kite playstyle that is problematic in Arena's right now which is another reason why so many honor talents are getting reworked. This crap happens across all specs every expansion this is nothing new.

[Rivin]

Not confusing at all, they wanted to buff MoC, the change to OoC allows them to buff it in a different way by only letting it be used on damaging abilities without stepping on the toes of Bloodtalons.

% damage increase needs to be better probably, but its an alright idea

They could change MoC without nerfing OoC in the process. Picking MoC is a choice and having the option to modify OoC in this way is fine. Nerfing OoC as well is just a nerf for the sake of a nerf.

[Kraineth]

They could change MoC without nerfing OoC in the process. Picking MoC is a choice and having the option to modify OoC in this way is fine. Nerfing OoC as well is just a nerf for the sake of a nerf.

It's not a nerf, if you actually do less damage with the OoC change you need to practice the rotation some more and stop relying on lucky OoC procs to fix mistakes. The change makes OoC always affect your most expensive spells so that you don't end up blowing it on silly things like 25 energy cost on FB, or 30 energy cost on Moonfire. Stop trying to say it's a nerf.

And of course they need to modify baseline Omen of Clarity. The gist of MoC is just having more free spells when you get procs, not to completely change the way you use the ability.

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It seems highly unlikely to me that MoC could compete with BT even if it effected all abilities.

And you assume MoC competing with BT was what I was addressing.

BT focuses on buffing bleeds. MoC focuses on buffing direct damage. Two entirely different focuses for two entirely different talents.

[Rivin]

It's not a nerf, if you actually do less damage with the OoC change you need to practice the rotation some more and stop relying on lucky OoC procs to fix mistakes. The change makes OoC always affect your most expensive spells so that you don't end up blowing it on silly things like 25 energy cost on FB, or 30 energy cost on Moonfire. Stop trying to say it's a nerf.

And of course they need to modify baseline Omen of Clarity. The gist of MoC is just having more free spells when you get procs, not to completely change the way you use the ability.

I already wrote a long post explaining how it's a nerf; I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

They can change the idea behind Moment of Clarity if it's not working, which it apparently isn't if they feel the need to change how it works.

[Hobbes0773]

Of course they can easily separate them but they have yet to do so in over a decade.

It is PvP specific. Blizzard is trying to get rid of the bleed and kite playstyle that is problematic in Arena's right now which is another reason why so many honor talents are getting reworked. This crap happens across all specs every expansion this is nothing new.

They have PvP coefficients on everything now and are constantly changing things only in PvP. There are now PvP templates that affect individual abilities, stats, and talents.

They literally do this exact thing. It is new to this expansion, so maybe you missed that?

[Lycanoth]

They have PvP coefficients on everything now and are constantly changing things only in PvP. There are now PvP templates that affect individual abilities, stats, and talents.

They literally do this exact thing. It is new to this expansion, so maybe you missed that?

Did you not read the previous time you quoted me lol? Of course I know about that.

Except it is not nerfed just for PvP on PTR. The whole talent was nerfed. What you said is beside the point.
The nerf to displacer beast is 100% unnecessary for PvE but definitely warranted for PvP. Instead they flat out nerfed it.

The previous PTR nerf that lowered the speed buff to 2 seconds was a flat nerf as well.

[teddabear]

And you assume MoC competing with BT was what I was addressing.

BT focuses on buffing bleeds. MoC focuses on buffing direct damage. Two entirely different focuses for two entirely different talents.

You state this as if you feel the choice between talents will be defined by whether you want more bleeds or more DD for a fight.

I think this is astronomically unlikely for 99.9999% of Ferals.

In any event I will restate my main point, save your efforts for the big changes. If there are no big changes then that is a very serious problem.

[Deleted]

Still waiting for a proper balancing of the last two talent tiers, I mean people have been giving feedback and suggestions for those since Beta... Bloodtalons baseline would be a start.

[Lucrece]

Still waiting for a proper balancing of the last two talent tiers, I mean people have been giving feedback and suggestions for those since Beta... Bloodtalons baseline would be a start.

The proper balancing would be to undo the damage shift that happened toward the end of beta so our direct damage abilities aren't total trash.

[Tradu]

Our tier 5 is pretty close to it. There will always be a mathematical winner, but if SR was toned down a couple percent that tier would be as close to a preference as you can get.

The tier with Blood talons though? Not even a competition right now. That needs to be fixed. They are attempting it on the PTR, I just don't think it is there yet.

Clearly you've not read anything I've posted, because the SR tier can't be balanced to the point where it's preference, because the 2 talents that are not SR would just be straight up better than SR if that row was balanced on ST.

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I already wrote a long post explaining how it's a nerf; I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

They can change the idea behind Moment of Clarity if it's not working, which it apparently isn't if they feel the need to change how it works.

Just because your post was long doesn't make it correct.

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[MENTION=626478]

By the way, have you noticed how the very capable Ferals have left us in Legion? Pawketz plays DH, Tinderhoof plays rogue. Why do you think that happened? You can read Tinder's answer in the attached screenshot.


[IMG]http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161123/b4d60374fbff2c42bbc3cd4f6390b2ac.png[IMG]

Pawkets doesn't play at all anymore, and part of the reason he switched was to avoid potentially having to play idiotic Shred/FB builds. Tinder barely played anymore anyway, and is wrong about like half of what he tweeted(as well as having a lot of other opinions I strongly disagree with). Luckily we have people like Xanzara, Moonbunnie and Guiltyas who picked up the torch and continue doing theorycrafting work for Feral. People changing specs really doesn't say much. I mean, if we go by that kind of logic, Feral clearly went to shit in MoP because Mihir rerolled to WW.

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This is not getting nerfed because of raiding. This is more PvP nerfs trickling over to PvE. So much for the honor talent system and the stat template preventing this crap.

Displacer Beast is getting nerfed because Blizzard is still trying to make people pick Renewal rather than accepting that it's complete trash and getting rid of it. Basically every druid of any spec picks Displacer Beast in raids, that most certainly contributed to them nerfing it.

[Zanzha]

Displacer Beast is getting nerfed because Blizzard is still trying to make people pick Renewal rather than accepting that it's complete trash and getting rid of it. Basically every druid of any spec picks Displacer Beast in raids, that most certainly contributed to them nerfing it.

Renewal is actually pretty good, it's just very out of place in a tier focused on mobility and doesn't belong there.

[Meanshield]

I mained feral in wod and it was awesome. But now i'm sad cuz savage roar is such a stinky talentchoice. It used to be clunky but it worked as the cost was low and the duration and percentage was high. Now it just blows.

Really hope devs just remove this and give feral some ridiculous passive like hailstorm that does all the damage w/o having to change rotation.

[Bralek]

BT focuses on buffing bleeds. MoC focuses on buffing direct damage. Two entirely different focuses for two entirely different talents.

I never thought about it that way.
In this case, could they change BT to affect only bleeds ? => more freedom to use regrowth

[Rivin]

Just because your post was long doesn't make it correct.

...Duh? Refute what you think is wrong; just saying "You're wrong because you suck" like Kraineth did doesn't accomplish anything.

[Lycanoth]

Displacer Beast is getting nerfed because Blizzard is still trying to make people pick Renewal rather than accepting that it's complete trash and getting rid of it. Basically every druid of any spec picks Displacer Beast in raids, that most certainly contributed to them nerfing it.

Even if that was their logic it is still beyond stupid. Nerfing one talent to try and force people into picking something else does not solve the problem of people focusing on one specific talent. Renewal will have to be spammable to compete with Displacer Beast at this point.

For PvP a lot of people have already started jumping ship to Wild Charge. Renewal has a much higher chance of being useful in that tier in PvP content than it does PvE.

[Hobbes0773]

Clearly you've not read anything I've posted, because the SR tier can't be balanced to the point where it's preference, because the 2 talents that are not SR would just be straight up better than SR if that row was balanced on ST.

I love when people assume you haven't read what they say because you disagree with them. It is adorable.

I read it. I understand it. I disagree with your strawman. Balance on ST, and keep SR a bit ahead. TADA.

Don't patronize kid. It doesn't help your argument.

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Did you not read the previous time you quoted me lol? Of course I know about that.

Except it is not nerfed just for PvP on PTR. The whole talent was nerfed. What you said is beside the point.
The nerf to displacer beast is 100% unnecessary for PvE but definitely warranted for PvP. Instead they flat out nerfed it.

The previous PTR nerf that lowered the speed buff to 2 seconds was a flat nerf as well.

They nerfed it for PVP and PVE.

They have the ability to nerf for just PVP.

Therefore, it follows pretty damn easily that they intended to nerf it for both PVE and PVP.

The difference here is that you think with your personal opinion that it was not warranted in PVE so that it must be a PVP only nerf, and that PVE was hit with too. This is clearly not true because they could easily nerf it only for PVP. They didn't. Guess what? Whether you like it or not, they nerfed it for PVP and PVE.

If you think it was a PVP nerf, then explain to me why they hit the entire ability in PVE and PVP instead. Explain with intelligence how that is the case. And don't give me "Because blizzard is a bunch of lazy dicks" or similar argument...changing a coefficient is about as lazy as you can get.

Not sharing their opinion does not change the fact that they clearly nerfed it for both PVE and PVP.

[Lucrece]

Even if that was their logic it is still beyond stupid. Nerfing one talent to try and force people into picking something else does not solve the problem of people focusing on one specific talent. Renewal will have to be spammable to compete with Displacer Beast at this point.

For PvP a lot of people have already started jumping ship to Wild Charge. Renewal has a much higher chance of being useful in that tier in PvP content than it does PvE.

Displacer Beast is picked EVERYWHERE, including PvP, because the other two are trash.

Let's communicate this to people:

Renewal is a Crimson Vial, that needs to be talented, and is four times the cooldown. It's absolutely retarded. Hell, if we want to look at talented heals, look at Healing Elixirs. Worse than crimson vial, but still a 15% heal every 30 seconds with 2 starting charges and a 30 sec cd per charge.

Hell, the druid talent tiers are trash like what warlocks got. They got shit they had baseline made into competing talents. What are affinities but the passive? With the arrival of affinities, they didn't even improve the form capacities, they just pruned how forms functioned in WOD and made you pay a talent for it with a passive effect on top.

Savage Roar needed to be baseline, the other talents simply cannot exist when they compete with it. And savage roar is aids to play in pvp with its massively reduced duration where people don't just let you sit there and turret your abilities on someone without interrupting your snapshots.

[Lycanoth]

I love when people assume you haven't read what they say because you disagree with them. It is adorable.

I read it. I understand it. I disagree with your strawman. Balance on ST, and keep SR a bit ahead. TADA.

Don't patronize kid. It doesn't help your argument.

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They nerfed it for PVP and PVE.

They have the ability to nerf for just PVP.

Therefore, it follows pretty damn easily that they intended to nerf it for both PVE and PVP.

The difference here is that you think with your personal opinion that it was not warranted in PVE so that it must be a PVP only nerf, and that PVE was hit with too. This is clearly not true because they could easily nerf it only for PVP. They didn't. Guess what? Whether you like it or not, they nerfed it for PVP and PVE.

If you think it was a PVP nerf, then explain to me why they hit the entire ability in PVE and PVP instead. Explain with intelligence how that is the case. And don't give me "Because blizzard is a bunch of lazy dicks" or similar argument...changing a coefficient is about as lazy as you can get.

Not sharing their opinion does not change the fact that they clearly nerfed it for both PVE and PVP.

You are still missing the entire point which is "Why does it need to be nerfed?" Sitting there and telling me because it is picked too much is the most illogical reasoning imaginable. Personal opinion has very little to do with this that you are derailing the thread with even bringing that up.

The BIG MASSIVE GLARING ISSUE is no matter how hard Displacer Beast is nerfed no one in their right mind is going to take Renewal over it in a raiding environment simply due to the fact that you have a shitty heal competing with mobility. Wild Charge is a situational talent as is but with the current EN fight mechanics there is no reason to pick it and nerfing Displacer beast isn't going to change that either.

Looking at it purely from a PvP perspective Displacer Beast was competitive against 95% of the comps out there. Nerfing it means that Renewal will be picked to sustain burst comps, wild charge will be used to stick to ranged while displacer beast will be used to kite melee heavy teams aka frost dk's that are in 90% of the arena matches. Nerfing it for PvE does absolutely nothing to encourage more variety in that tier while in PvP it does.

Which makes it a very shitty change for PvE because Displacer Beast will still be picked regardless of this change. I guess if you want to get a little more technical because this might make it a situational choice for Resto but it is still beyond a hot garbage nerf for both Balance and Feral Druid for really no reason at all. They are going to have to do much much more than nerfing displacer beast and buffing renewal to make that talent something worthwhile. Honestly Renewal shouldn't even be there. If Feral had Guardians Guttural Roars in that spot instead I would definitely pick that up on heavy raid movement fights like Elereth and Ill'gynoth.

Displacer Beast is picked EVERYWHERE, including PvP, because the other two are trash.

Let's communicate this to people:

Renewal is a Crimson Vial, that needs to be talented, and is four times the cooldown. It's absolutely retarded. Hell, if we want to look at talented heals, look at Healing Elixirs. Worse than crimson vial, but still a 15% heal every 30 seconds with 2 starting charges and a 30 sec cd per charge.

Hell, the druid talent tiers are trash like what warlocks got. They got shit they had baseline made into competing talents. What are affinities but the passive? With the arrival of affinities, they didn't even improve the form capacities, they just pruned how forms functioned in WOD and made you pay a talent for it with a passive effect on top.

Savage Roar needed to be baseline, the other talents simply cannot exist when they compete with it. And savage roar is aids to play in pvp with its massively reduced duration where people don't just let you sit there and turret your abilities on someone without interrupting your snapshots.

What makes renewal trash is simply because it is competing with 2 mobility talents that provide much more utility and many more useful interactions over an encounter. Renewal will have to get beyond massively buffed to get Ferals to use it outside of PvP and questing.

All I am saying is nerfing Displacer Beast is not the answer to fixing two trash talents. When is Blizzard going to understand that?

[Lucrece]

Never so long as Celestashit is running the show. Mionelol had it right when he said they were throwing darts in the dark.

[Hobbes0773]

You are still missing the entire point which is "Why does it need to be nerfed?" Sitting there and telling me because it is picked too much is the most illogical reasoning imaginable. Personal opinion has very little to do with this that you are derailing the thread with even bringing that up.

The BIG MASSIVE GLARING ISSUE is no matter how hard Displacer Beast is nerfed no one in their right mind is going to take Renewal over it in a raiding environment simply due to the fact that you have a shitty heal competing with mobility. Wild Charge is a situational talent as is but with the current EN fight mechanics there is no reason to pick it and nerfing Displacer beast isn't going to change that either.

Looking at it purely from a PvP perspective Displacer Beast was competitive against 95% of the comps out there. Nerfing it means that Renewal will be picked to sustain burst comps, wild charge will be used to stick to ranged while displacer beast will be used to kite melee heavy teams aka frost dk's that are in 90% of the arena matches. Nerfing it for PvE does absolutely nothing to encourage more variety in that tier while in PvP it does.

Which makes it a very shitty change for PvE because Displacer Beast will still be picked regardless of this change. I guess if you want to get a little more technical because this might make it a situational choice for Resto but it is still beyond a hot garbage nerf for both Balance and Feral Druid for really no reason at all. They are going to have to do much much more than nerfing displacer beast and buffing renewal to make that talent something worthwhile. Honestly Renewal shouldn't even be there. If Feral had Guardians Guttural Roars in that spot instead I would definitely pick that up on heavy raid movement fights like Elereth and Ill'gynoth.



What makes renewal trash is simply because it is competing with 2 mobility talents that provide much more utility and many more useful interactions over an encounter. Renewal will have to get beyond massively buffed to get Ferals to use it outside of PvP and questing.

All I am saying is nerfing Displacer Beast is not the answer to fixing two trash talents. When is Blizzard going to understand that?

I did not miss the point. I got the point. Your point still doesn't address the fact that Blizzard clearly intended to nerf the ability in PVE and PVP. If they didn't they would have just adjusted one or the other, which they are more than capable of doing.

You might completely disagree with them and think they are batshit crazy, but the fact remains, they chose to nerf it in both intentionally. It was not, I repeat, it was not a pvp change that affected PVE.

I never debated any of your other points, so stop defending those.