Why is 7.1.5 Referred to as the "Death Patch"?

[Deleted]

It's fine. When has Fire Mage ever been anything less than viable?

[Deleted]

Preach is salty I believe about a few of the mage changes. It seems at present on the PTR there is a lot of class revamp thats not tuned fully yet. People will claim the sky is falling even though the patch version isn't release set yet.

The mechanical changes of some specs are shit, we don't care about tuning, we care about specs that work fine, to not be altered.

[bubbadubba]

Fire mages are on the middle-low pack, check warcraftlogs.

No, I don't care if you see mages on hcs doing 5 times your damage on a boss that lasts 20seconds.

I checked WClogs and in mythic EN, fire mages are third at 99th percentile, fourth at 95th and 90th percentile, third at 80th and 75th percentile. Heroic they are second in the 99th percentile, fall below in the rest but no where are they close to middle-low pack unless you call being upper middle of the pack to be shit which means most of the classes need buffs.

ToV doesn't have enough kills on mythic to judge how people are doing. They still are in the higher half when at the top percentiles which is more important on class balance.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you might want to stop listening to Preach. That guy lives on controversial, salty statements that drives views to his channel.
It's a very well thought out strategy.

He really does feed on Salt. I hope I never meet him, I am a salty person so he may try and eat me.

[Lime]

It's fine. When has Fire Mage ever been anything less than viable?

Cataclysm launch before Blizzard had to buff all 3 mage specs.

- You had Arcane which only did competitive DPS during it's burn phase, quickly dropping during the conserve phase. So you could choose to do high DPS but run out of mana, or low DPS and have stable mana.
- You had Frost which didn't have mana issues, but couldn't pull competitive numbers.
- And you had Fire which was a slot machine. Good RNG? No mana issues and competitive numbers. Bad RNG? Enjoy being bottom of the DPS barrel and likely getting kicked.

Now, I think Blizzard has learned a lot since, so I highly doubt it will be all that bad, but this was just to answer your question.

[Deleted]

I play a shadowpriest, and i hate this patch so much... Because blizzard are hellbent on keeping Surrender to madness in it's current iteration, they have to change everything else to suit that one talent. A talent that you can't possibly balance, because the reward has go be good when the downside of the talent is that you die (and cant be ressed) if you fuck up. How can you balance that ?! it HAS to be good, but how good, is good enough ?.

I don't do PvE myself, so i'd rather that they just scrap the talent alltogether, and keep the rest of the mechanics as they currently are.. But nope, because of S2M, we get lingering madness as a talent instead of a baseline passive, and it's being put in the same row as reaper of souls.
Voidbolt no longer refreshing dots, but instead extend dots on the target, and targets around the target by 3 seconds. In PvP, its a huge nerf.
Also removal of Mind Sear, though they might make Mind Flay castable on friendly targets, which im hoping for.

[Lime]

I checked WClogs and in mythic EN, fire mages are third at 99th percentile, fourth at 95th and 90th percentile, third at 80th and 75th percentile. Heroic they are second in the 99th percentile, fall below in the rest but no where are they close to middle-low pack unless you call being upper middle of the pack to be shit which means most of the classes need buffs.

Very misleading, something a lot of top raiders are going to point out to you. Take Xavius for example. Fire Mage has a lot of ignite damage on adds that don't contribute to the fight and only exist to pad meters, if anything. If you look at damage done to Xavius himself, all 3 mages specs should be around the middle of the pack at acceptable percentiles. But even that's not the perfect way to determine how effective they are.

[Deleted]

The mechanical changes of some specs are shit, we don't care about tuning, we care about specs that work fine, to not be altered.

YES, exactly this.

[Deleted]

Unhappy with changes ? Try it out on PTR instead of whining. Next step (after testing - and I mean more than 1 hour) use the system to post feedback - what is the problem, how is it a problem, and what can be done to loosen the bad impact that you experience ?
Overpowered specs will get nerfed - if you didn't expect that you are a very naiv person.

[Scarletlion]

Balancing overpowered speccs isn't destroying them.

How is MM Hunter is overpowered? There are only 2 boss fights that MM hunter performs way much better than other classes and that's it. It's weak on ST fights and they are taking away the only powerful aspect of the spec, which is aoe.

[bubbadubba]

Very misleading, something a lot of top raiders are going to point out to you. Take Xavius for example. Fire Mage has a lot of ignite damage on adds that don't contribute to the fight and only exist to pad meters, if anything. If you look at damage done to Xavius himself, all 3 mages specs should be around the middle of the pack at acceptable percentiles. But even that's not the perfect way to determine how effective they are.

We mine as well throw WClogs out the window because the majority of top parses are classes padding and the other half is people not playing as well as those padding players.

[ComputerNerd]

Yea because this isn't the same thing that happened in beta or anything and went live anyway...

don't worry it's only alpha

don't worry it's only beta

don't worry it's only pre-patch

don't worry first raid tier isn't even over yet

don't worry it's only ptr

don't worry the next patch will fix it

don't worry the next expansion will fix it

There is plenty of stuff which does get changed, but you conveniently focus only the stuff you deem not fixed.
People see what they want to see.

[bubbadubba]

How is MM Hunter is overpowered? There are only 2 boss fights that MM hunter performs way much better than other classes and that's it. It's weak on ST fights and they are taking away the only powerful aspect of the spec, which is aoe.

MM is all around decent. That being said, these changes are not even balancing for mM from how it looks. They are trying to change around the spec to make it work better. The damage difference between the main talent set up and the next one under it is giant.

They even commented that Sidewinders fuels the spec to much, it was just supposed to be an increased cleave and it has become the staple ability when it shouldn't have.

[melodramocracy]

Whiners are angsty. Angsty people like their safe space. Safe space is somewhere, where everything stays like they know and how they come to like it.

Now stuff changes --> safe space lost --> angsty people get triggered --> whine occurs --> deathpatch.

And this is true, because all changes are for the better, in all cases.

[Bathory]

Stuff is changing and people are doomsdaying

[Deleted]

Isn´t this why Blizzard changed into the new talent tree from the old one in the first place?
They said it would make the balancing easier. Kinda funny to see the struggling now ^^

[shonist]

Because they are balancing OP specs.

pd: git gud and you will be ok.

[Aggrophobic]

Balancing overpowered speccs isn't destroying them.

Fire is not that strong anymore and MM is just a cleave spec. It has the worst singel target damage in the game.

I play both thoes classes and even though fire looks a bit "meh", I'm cool with the MM changes.
Never did like the "snakes" and the "machine gun".

I'm hoping that after a few number changes our singel target damage goes up a bit even if it'll ruin our AOE.

[Aleksej89]

Hunters got ruined with legion changes and 7.1.5 is fixing nothing and breaking even more stuff.

[Armourboy]

We mine as well throw WClogs out the window because the majority of top parses are classes padding and the other half is people not playing as well as those padding players.

Well and then you get into the legendaries which for a spec like Fire Mage will make a huge difference. I don't care how good I play, I'm not going to be competitive with someone that has the bracers and the ring when I don't. They also are propping up certain specs in certain areas, for Fire mages it's the bracers and single target. Outside of combustion, Fire Mages single target isn't all that great, but with the bracers you can be good.

I'm not sure on the other specs, but all of the initial concerns for Fire Mage is that they were changing more than just numbers. Flame on was changed, combustion was nerfed to hell and back, and we lost a huge amount of mobility with Ice Flows being removed. Now it's starting to look like the Flame on change will probably be a good one in the long run ( although frankly it should be baseline) and as long as they increase our sustained single target damage we will be fine. Movement will suck due to RoP, but I can live with it.

I'm not nearly as concerned about it as I originally was, especially after reading the blue post that basically says they want to keep our damage the same, they just want to move it around. Currently we are all burst, our sustained is garbage. They nerfed the burst on PTR but haven't added the changes in that will buff sustained yet. I'm not exactly comfortable though, because if they don't buff that sustained, Fire Mage will be a dead spec, and that's not really an overreaction based on the numbers we have seen so far.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Because they are destroying alot of specs, two that comes to mind are Fire Mage and MM Hunter

So two of the specs that are consistently top or high on absolutely everything due to retarded spammable AoE at insane range, WHILE MOVING, gets nerfed? Yeah that's fine.