7.1.5 Blue Post

[Deleted]

So, looking at numbers and adjusting in the aimed shot in half not shooting at the dummy. I am trying to figure out why you would fire Marked Shot in any situation that doesn't include multi-target.
These are based off my numbers and normalized so that Autoshot is 1.0

Autoshot		1.0
Volley			1.57 
Arcane Shot		2.1
Marked Shot		5.18
Call of The Hunter	2.39
Aimed Shot 0		6.08
Aimed Shot 1		13.08
Aimed Shot 2		13.99
Aimed Shot 3		14.91
Aimed Shot 4		15.82
Aimed Shot 5		16.73
Aimed Shot 6		17.65
Windburst 		15.06
Multi-shot		0.69
Sidewinders 		3.87

Because it applies Vulnerable

[Ometius]

I guess they will buff Marked Shot base damage, right now it's "bugged" (or they just haven't updated the tooltip), and it's not affected by vulnerability, so it hits like a wet noodle.

[Youn]

Pretty sure that it works as intended now:

Among other changes to help with this, Marked Shot no longer requires the targets to have Vulnerable to do strong damage, so builds without Sidewinders will be able to use it more effectively.

That sounds like it doesn't care about vulnerability anymore.

[threads]

blizzard is so fucking out of touch it's amazing. the duration of patient sniper was probably the least important part of why people chose it and that's the thing they decide to make baseline. i doubt anyone on their class design team has actually played this spec outside of some target dummy test.

[Gurg]

EU player here so i cant post this on US forums, ill post it here so if any other Survival player find this as concerning as much as i do they can post on US forums, which devs actually read.. from time to time.

Going forward in 7.1.5 survival got a new passive that give a boost to our traps if they are armed more than 2s.
Im concerned how will this playout IN ANY FORM OF PVE.

My idea is that our gap closer, Harpoon, works like contra-death grip, pulling US TOWARD the target. Harpoon also has several traits/talents related to it, among them reset on kill, but also adding a DoT via second golden and extra damage via belt legendary. Obviously its ment to be used A LOT.
So how new passive playout in this case?

1. In group/dungeon content you will have to "closely work with your tanks" as they put it, basically harrasing tank to pull the mobs/boss in your traps. This it self is an issue on its own.. all bosses have their predetermined positions during a fight which was strategized during fight prep. Its a extra hussle for tanks, probably ending in most tanks simply ignoring our traps as gain is almost none. Risking a boss attack that can hit a raid just to give one raider a dps boost is... pointless.

2. All said was in mind that boss is not stational, like Wrath, Heyla.. etc. This, by default, hits our DPS performance as we cant take usage of new passive.

3. Solo PvE concept goes even more bonkers.
How would opener go? Rotation it self?

Toss your traps between our target and us, wait for 2 seconds and new passive to trigger, then what?
1. Harpoon in to apply the DoT from our second GOLDEN trait, followed by backpedal to triger your steroid traps. Backpedal cause you cant dodge/block if your ass is turned to mobs face.
2. Traps, wait for passive to trigger, hatchet toss/throw axes/pull with pet, mob gets aggro, runs toward you, triggers your traps and then your Harpoon to your target? But this diminish value of your legendary belt as distance between mob and you gets shorter.

In any form new trap passive is working agains our legendary belt.

Stupid af. In contribution to this claim, that is expected of us to use new passives gameplay style as much as we can, goes fact that latest ptr bluepost states that Explosive trap was nerfed in latest build with increased CD timer from 30s to 40s without any boost to its damage.

[turboether]

I guess they are resigned that nobody plays Surv in raids since their 7.1.5 buffs will have affect in raids once in a blue moon. Seriously, just making their traps do a lot more damage unconditionally isn't going to break them in terms of competing with other melee dps. It's honestly pretty sad.

[Tehterokkar]

Pretty sure that it works as intended now:

Among other changes to help with this, Marked Shot no longer requires the targets to have Vulnerable to do strong damage, so builds without Sidewinders will be able to use it more effectively.

That sounds like it doesn't care about vulnerability anymore.

Which makes it super weak. Literally shit tier AoE damage.

Marked Shot on PTR: 250% wep dmg
Marked Shot on live: 625 wep dmg (due to SW always applying Vulnerable)

Like unless Blizzard has some PTR change that has yet to be on ptr data servers, that would increase marked shot damage by at least 100% baseline, Marked shot is dead, MM AoE/Cleave is dead.

[Chickensoup23]

Ok, so NOW can we actually panic? We told them there was a huge issue with the changes. They came out with a round of updates...and didn't do jack shit.

Yep, it's BM time. Wait, that is shit too.

[Finbezz]

Which makes it super weak. Literally shit tier AoE damage.

Marked Shot on PTR: 250% wep dmg
Marked Shot on live: 625 wep dmg (due to SW always applying Vulnerable)

Like unless Blizzard has some PTR change that has yet to be on ptr data servers, that would increase marked shot damage by at least 100% baseline, Marked shot is dead, MM AoE/Cleave is dead.

holy shit, calm down. literally months before this ptr goes live. they're definitely going to buff marked shot base damage.

[Gurg]

I guess they are resigned that nobody plays Surv in raids since their 7.1.5 buffs will have affect in raids once in a blue moon. Seriously, just making their traps do a lot more damage unconditionally isn't going to break them in terms of competing with other melee dps. It's honestly pretty sad.

The thing is.. its not unconditional. Its conditioned by 2s "fully arming" timer via new Survivals only passive.
I guess that trap build will be the thing if its end up even playable in any form, however.. i would like to see a equally performing talent choices and builds that keep current gameplay style without punishing me for not going full trap build, therefor deciding to not go so immersive in their "fantasy."

With all its flaws i actually enjoy Survival, i just dont like the idea of being forced to play trap build as, as i explained in my previous post, i see soo maaannyyy issues with it to the point thats.. hardly even playable.

[Tehterokkar]

holy shit, calm down. literally months before this ptr goes live. they're definitely going to buff marked shot base damage.

Blizzard has been known to be very ignorant and they don't test classes in raid situations. Sometimes it feels like they don't even playtest them in any situation(such as recent Shadow Priest changes & their 7.1.5 class change update, where they claimed SP peak was just before next voidform, which is so far from the truth).

And again, it's only IF they buff Marked Shot damage. If they don't, MM is rip. But if they exclude Marked Shot completely from Vulnerable and buff its base damage to 600% or something close, then MM will be fine mechanically(though Aimed Shot tuning is still to be questioned, with overall reduced vulnerable uptime).

[Ometius]

Ok, so NOW can we actually panic? We told them there was a huge issue with the changes. They came out with a round of updates...and didn't do jack shit.

Yep, it's BM time. Wait, that is shit too.

What round of updates?

[Deleted]

I have a better idea: remove this proc fest, remove vulnerable, remove marked shot and replace it with an ability that involves decent gameplay not just "shoot on proc".

Too many dps specs in Legion are either builder/spender or a proc circus

[Deleted]

It's not really an idea if you have basically no "idea" and just state "change something to something different".

I'd like to have a refreshing gamestyle too, but skillshots are never going to be a thing in WoW and proc/rotation/debuff management is all we can expect.

[Gurg]

holy shit, calm down. literally months before this ptr goes live. they're definitely going to buff marked shot base damage.

Weeeell, Nighthold opens in early January, end of S1 Legion PvP is on December 23rd. so.. Somewhere between? Could hardly say "months before this ptr goes live."
Adding "literally" before is just.. wrong.

[threads]

holy shit, calm down. literally months before this ptr goes live. they're definitely going to buff marked shot base damage.

this is the same dumb shit everyone said about the 9 months of alpha where BM felt unfinished and guess what? the spec is still unfinished and boring as fuck. MM is still a shitfest held together by bandaid talents. and SV is still useless.

[Uriel]

I have a better idea: remove this proc fest, remove vulnerable, remove marked shot and replace it with an ability that involves decent gameplay not just "shoot on proc".

Too many dps specs in Legion are either builder/spender or a proc circus

Heh some are even both.. like pirate rogues

[Deleted]

It's not really an idea if you have basically no "idea" and just state "change something to something different".

I'd like to have a refreshing gamestyle too, but skillshots are never going to be a thing in WoW and proc/rotation/debuff management is all we can expect.

But skillshots already exist in WoW. They just need to be fast paced and not useless like explosive shot. Also its not only about skillshots, its about offering something more engaging since MM spec has been incredibly dull and boring since cataclysm. The previous iterations of MM were more "functional" and less RNG but still boring

- - - Updated - - -

this is the same dumb shit everyone said about the 9 months of alpha where BM felt unfinished and guess what? the spec is still unfinished and boring as fuck. MM is still a shitfest held together by bandaid talents. and SV is still useless.

BM is nothing new, just like MM, its been a braindead spec since 7 plus years

[Deleted]

But skillshots already exist in WoW. They just need to be fast paced and not useless like explosive shot. Also its not only about skillshots, its about offering something more engaging since MM spec has been incredibly dull and boring since cataclysm. The previous iterations of MM were more "functional" and less RNG but still boring

Help me out, because I really can't think of any skillshot other than Explosive shot.

But you could be right, if you didn't have to detonate it manually it could've worked.