Serenity caught exploiting on Helya?

[Veshx]

With the recent bans on Exorus/From Scratch/Limit about exploiting on Helya it has come to light that a certain Shadow Priest from Serenity was exploiting aswell(heresay as of right now).

Now I do not play a Priest or a Shadow Priest at that.
Some posters over on the WoW subreddit have said that was this player was doing is Exploiting, getting something alont the lines of 71 stacks of insanity without Bloodlust/Timewarp/Heroism and Surrender to Madness.
This is the post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...a_which_gives/

The video that shows this:
https://vid.me/IZ6u


Would this be considered exploiting? Clever use of game mechanics?

EDIT: This post isn't here because "serenity haters/method fanboys". It's here because of the recent bans on 3 world class guilds, while other exploits go un-punished.
In the end, exploit or no exploit, Blizzard needs to be alot more transparent when it comes to exploits and the world 1st race. For some of these players, this is what they do. (Brand recognition, streams, etc) And if I were a member of one of the three guilds that was slapped with a ban I would be furious to see that another world class guild used an exploit to get a kill and nothing happens to them. You can't pick and choose which exploit you want to ban. You either go all the way and ban every single exploiter or you don't ban any of them.

[Jotaux]

How are they doing it?

[Clozer]

How are they doing it?

VT on a immune mob followed by dispersion, bugs the insanity. But seriously he's last in dps anyway at that moment.

[Deleted]

hmm anyone see the Death knight bug yet then?

[Deleted]

VT on a immune mob followed by dispersion, bugs the insanity. But seriously he's last in dps anyway at that moment.

No matter how much smaller the advantage, cheating is cheating. If Blizzard wants to send the clear message they seem to want to send, and i aprove of it, at least the individual player should be banned and his achievement removed.

[Deleted]

Yes this is what i would consider exploiting. He knew it was wrong, he knew how to exploit the bug. its like a DK causing his runes to recharge 2x faster for 30 seconds, or a MM hunter never focus starved perma aimed shotting, or a rogue never having to use his builder and just spamming spenders. thats the kind of dps we are talking for those of you who dont know how big of an impact to get 70+ stacks of voidform without surrender is. Using this to dps tenticles down faster - no he wasnt to pdps, cuz hes not aoe cheesing the adds to pad meter. but if one patch tanks are allowed to die on archimonde to not get a crystal in last phase which was how almost all top guilds did it because of the dps requirement, but blizz didnt bat an eye, then to ban guilds for doing essentially the EXACT same thing here, but being removed from the race. Then to see world 2nd using a bug to exploit a class. Its pathetic. :/ No one SURELY can defend this action? I would LOVE to see a priest defend him, even if you dont believe its right. I just want to see someone try to defend cheesing the class so your insanity starts to drain asif you are on 0 stacks again.

[Woobels]

Who's to say Method didn't do this either at the this point.

What a shit show.

[Veshx]

Who's to say Method didn't do this either at the this point.

What a shitshow.

That is a very good point, as Method used 3 Shadow Priests for their 1st kill.

[Moshots]

Yes this is what i would consider exploiting. He knew it was wrong, he knew how to exploit the bug. its like a DK causing his runes to recharge 2x faster for 30 seconds, or a MM hunter never focus starved perma aimed shotting, or a rogue never having to use his builder and just spamming spenders. thats the kind of dps we are talking for those of you who dont know how big of an impact to get 70+ stacks of voidform without surrender is. Using this to dps tenticles down faster - no he wasnt to pdps, cuz hes not aoe cheesing the adds to pad meter. but if one patch tanks are allowed to die on archimonde to not get a crystal in last phase which was how almost all top guilds did it because of the dps requirement, but blizz didnt bat an eye, then to ban guilds for doing essentially the EXACT same thing here, but being removed from the race. Then to see world 2nd using a bug to exploit a class. Its pathetic. :/ No one SURELY can defend this action? I would LOVE to see a priest defend him, even if you dont believe its right. I just want to see someone try to defend cheesing the class so your insanity starts to drain asif you are on 0 stacks again.

The problem is your comparing apples to oranges.... I put this along the lines of some other "unintended class issues" and not a "exploit"

Did you know that Even though old gear sets were removed to stop prepull gear... as a DH you can start the fight in Full mastery Gear Hit Chaos Blade prepull swap gear as boss is pulled and do
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...066&end=110187

Or that as a Boomkin up untill 7.1 you would Snapshot your mastery and it would stay that way for the whole fight... EVEN able to be used on trash then swap trinkets for boss keeping the stacks? almost every top 5 heroic/normal druid log on dragons and ursoc used this for the first few weeks...

There are many class "issues" that are unintended but they are usually fixed eventually and none are "ban worthy"

[TheRabidDeer]

Yes this is what i would consider exploiting. He knew it was wrong, he knew how to exploit the bug. its like a DK causing his runes to recharge 2x faster for 30 seconds, or a MM hunter never focus starved perma aimed shotting, or a rogue never having to use his builder and just spamming spenders. thats the kind of dps we are talking for those of you who dont know how big of an impact to get 70+ stacks of voidform without surrender is. Using this to dps tenticles down faster - no he wasnt to pdps, cuz hes not aoe cheesing the adds to pad meter. but if one patch tanks are allowed to die on archimonde to not get a crystal in last phase which was how almost all top guilds did it because of the dps requirement, but blizz didnt bat an eye, then to ban guilds for doing essentially the EXACT same thing here, but being removed from the race. Then to see world 2nd using a bug to exploit a class. Its pathetic. :/ No one SURELY can defend this action? I would LOVE to see a priest defend him, even if you dont believe its right. I just want to see someone try to defend cheesing the class so your insanity starts to drain asif you are on 0 stacks again.

Didn't archimonde still cast crystals after the tank died? It avoided the mechanic, but it didn't break/bug the fight. What these guilds did would be like letting a tank die on mythic archimonde and suddenly infernals didn't spawn for the rest of the fight.

[Clozer]

Didn't archimonde still cast crystals after the tank died? It avoided the mechanic, but it didn't break/bug the fight. What these guilds did would be like letting a tank die on mythic archimonde and suddenly infernals didn't spawn for the rest of the fight.

yeah but they "could" use it again the whole fight. So in their words it would not change much. If she had cast it again just let tank die again and so on.

[Deleted]

yeah but they "could" use it again the whole fight. So in their words it would not change much. If she had cast it again just let tank die again and so on.

Exactly, how many breaths did they skip then 3? you skip 3 crystals on archi if im correct. all thats happened is 1 extra brezz for a 12 min fight would be needed for another breath. could have 3 battle resses just for tanks last phase because of killtime length no? This was about during the fight bug with a class though.

[TheRabidDeer]

yeah but they "could" use it again the whole fight. So in their words it would not change much. If she had cast it again just let tank die again and so on.

They "could" use it again, or they could have them available for other members of the raid or change raid composition or a number of other things.

[Dylemma]

A lot of you need to realize, if you think this is the first time it's happen before. You're wrong. Almost every guild at the top has used bugs, account sharing, etc. Just the first time you're seeing blizz throw some bans out.

[Deleted]

Back on topic, everyone is fine with mythic first races having classes exploit a bug mid fight - not pre pull gear, to which blizz accounts for bursts at the start so there no mechanics required at the start for this reason to kill adds etc. (bar straight up beserk timer fights obvs but they are rarely ever the end/hard boss).

[Veshx]

A lot of you need to realize, if you think this is the first time it's happen before. You're wrong. Almost every guild at the top has used bugs, account sharing, etc. Just the first time you're seeing blizz throw some bans out.

We're not debating if this is the first time or not.
We're debating if this counts as an exploit, and if it does, then they need to be stripped of their kill as those 3 other guilds were for using an exploit.

[TheRabidDeer]

A lot of you need to realize, if you think this is the first time it's happen before. You're wrong. Almost every guild at the top has used bugs, account sharing, etc. Just the first time you're seeing blizz throw some bans out.

Blizzard has banned on numerous occasions before for world first exploits. World first Lich King and Yogg 0 lights both got bans IIRC. And I remember some others too, but only vaguely

[Zyky]

Class exploit for sure, at this point I don't care anymore who gets bans and who doesn't. Truth is ToV has been grossly overtuned since the beginning. When you're literally making fights so that you can only barely kill it with a guild average item level of 890 and the cap on gear is 895(not counting legendaries) and those 20 players have to play PERFECTLY then that's a gross way to design a raid/encounter. So yes exploiting happened, if the raid wasn't so grossly overtuned then guilds wouldn't have had to search for said exploits in order to kill it. Blizzard needs to be more consistent. Bugs have been happening every raid tier since the beginning of the game, the last time they actually banned a whole guild for using an exploit was in Wrath(maybe Cata, I don't remember if the guild who used DS on Sinestra to copy and then put Wrack back onto the boss was banned). But there have been several exploits abused every tier and nothing was done. Blizzard needs to have a little consistency with their banning process or properly tune raids so that you don't need to search for and then use an exploit to kill the boss.

[Kraineth]

yeah but they "could" use it again the whole fight. So in their words it would not change much. If she had cast it again just let tank die again and so on.

Its foolish to compare Archimonde crystals to Helya's breath.

On Archimonde, the crystal is designed to kill a tank either by damage or knocking them off the edge. The Archimonde strat was to let the crystal do what it was designed to do, kill a tank. And then you used a Brez to keep going.

Helya's breath is a tank swap mechanic on top of a ton of raid damage on top of a DPS check. It isn't designed purely to kill the tank, it is designed to kill the raid, either by having the slimes explode, or missing a soak in p3. Having the tank die during the breath makes the mechanic that affects the entire raid just not happen to begin with.

So even if she didnt bug out and continued to breath, and they still used tank deaths to avoid the raid mechanics, that is still easily bannable.

People only compare the two because they either don't realize how completely avoiding that mechanic breaks down the integrity of the fight, or they simply don't care and want to make excuses.

[Deleted]

True Zyky, however method did kill it (so far as we know no bugs) but the raid unfortunately had to be overtuned because an embarrassment like EN clear time couldn't happen again, so it had to account for the guilds having 885-890 itlvl otherwise it would have ended too quick