Something needs to be done about M+ and its negative impact on the game

[ShiyoKozuki]

I'm about as casual as it gets on this forum.

"I'm a turbo casual and don't see a problem"

That's..literally the point?
This expansion is fine if you're a turbo casual or a super min/max tryhard. For the rest of the player base, it isn't fun

[Deleted]

Cannot agree more. All posters below you just don't get the point. No one have complained about someone playing .5-1 hours per day get all benefits. It is about thing that have never been in WoW - more you play - more you get. In all addons since Vanilla there was a cap - raid lockouts. even if you are super hardcore raider you could complete your Mythic BRF, Heroic ToT, Heroic Firelands or whatever in several hours and be done with it for the rest of the week. Now if you want to stay competitive even if you are super hardcore Method-Serenity guy you HAVE TO play a lot.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Legion a lot, Mythic+ instances for such casual player as I am like a bottle of water for dying in a desert, but there should be a cap. Softcap if you ask me - like first 10 M+ you get normal chance to receive an item, then for next 2 runs you have 50%, then 20% and so on.

Then you also have to limit PvP gains, oh and please limit mythic raid benefits too - because not many people can go there/have the time for that, etc. etc. etc.

In the end you'll have your garrison simulator back and everyone will whine about how they have nothing to do.

[Feyranna]

I play a hell of a lot more than an hour a day and I agree with the OP in spirit at least. Either M+ needs a lockout or they need to lift all restrictions on mythic raiding. They kill 10man to promote larger group content then they make 5man the best gear path...that makes fricking sense.

[Ashkiman]

You "high end" raiders need to understand that if you grind the crap out of everything that has the slightest chance to drop some purples to be "better" than others, it doesn't mean that game's design is bad and it should be changed so you don't have to play hundreds of hours anymore, it's your own life choices that are bad and should be changed.
You can play the game however you want but if you decide to play it like this, then don't blame Blizzard and let others enjoy playing this game however they want.

[Dagon]

This has to be one of the most retarded threads ive seen in awhile.

You are basicly asking Blizzard to limit gameplay for others because you cant put in the hours yourself.
Get over yourself, you earn equal to the effort you put into the game. If thats not fine with you then find yourself another game and stop asking to remove/change features of the game just because you can only play an hour every day.

[Rogalicus]

You are basicly asking Blizzard to limit gameplay for others because you cant put in the hours yourself.

He's asking Blizzard to stick to their core design from the beginning of the game instead of caring about idiots who don't know what to do with their time.

[Deleted]

since you cant play that much per day you obviously dont raid. while we cap mythic +, what should we do with raiding? because they obviosly will get more loot / ap which you wont ever be able to get? we cant have that.
anyone got a good solution?
oh instead of capping the raiders we should give people like the op 1 raid item per week.
/s

@OP if people spend more time then you they deserve more then you. For what do you need gear anyway?

[Dagon]

He's asking Blizzard to stick to their core design from the beginning of the game instead of caring about idiots who don't know what to do with their time.

Yes because everyone that has more than say 1-2 hours of gametime on a daily basis is a moron with too much time on their hands, that makes sense. And what "Core design" is it you are refering to? can you link me a relevant post of a developer talking about them having a core design revolving around them making the game and designing it for people that can only play an hour per day?. Please.

Like, people that defend a limitation of content because they cant play as much themselfs are the selfish and egoistic ones. So what if person X can play 6 hours a day and player Y can only play 2 hours. By default the person that puts more time and effort into the game deserves better rewards, Its only logical and I have no idea how you can argue against it unless you are that selfish that you think the world revolves around you and Blizzard should make this game your harem and appeal to your playtime.

[Rogalicus]

And what "Core design" is it you are refering to? can you link me a relevant post of a developer talking about them having a core design revolving around them making the game and designing it for people that can only play an hour per day?. Please.

Can you find any moment in the game when you could farm gear, that is better than what current raid drops, infinitely?

[Deleted]

This has to be one of the most retarded threads ive seen in awhile.

You are basicly asking Blizzard to limit gameplay for others because you cant put in the hours yourself.
Get over yourself, you earn equal to the effort you put into the game. If thats not fine with you then find yourself another game and stop asking to remove/change features of the game just because you can only play an hour every day.

Yeah, we should allow Mythic raids not to be loot saved. Because why put a limit on gameplay for others you cant put in yourself?

I mean.. there is absolutely nothing wrong here. Also we should remove all restrictions on Seals too. People who have farmed resources and gold should be rewarded for their effort, not be limited by only having 3 seals. pft.

Also transmutations should never be gated, gating is something that is put in for lazy players. people with the resources should be able to craft what they want.


You are right, limiting gameplay is retarded, why have all these silly restrictions not been removed long ago?

[Thage]

"I'm a turbo casual and don't see a problem"

That's..literally the point?
This expansion is fine if you're a turbo casual or a super min/max tryhard. For the rest of the player base, it isn't fun

Citation needed. I long for the day when people on this forum stop equating their personal experience and that of their immediate circle of friends with being representative of the entire player base. I'll concede, as I did in my first post (if you bothered to read it, which I highly suspect despite its relative brevity) that the AP grind is an issue for raiders because it's very unfriendly towards alts and third/fourth specs (and a quick look through my post history will confirm that, yes, I do see it as a problem writ large, albeit one that doesn't effect me because I gather up more than enough for what I do with dungeons and world quests). Beyond that, however, it really isn't Blizzard's job to save players from themselves. Trying to do that is what led to Warlords of Draenor, where the reward structure and pacing was so irrevocably broken that it pretty much eviscerated their playerbase and participation rates so badly that they spent the rest of the expansion patching in slapdash fixes like Pathfinder and current-season Arena gear from Ashran, then just gave up and banked on Legion (which, luckily, turned that ship around).

Now, I know it's trendy on this forum to get angry at people who speak only for themselves rather than deigning to designate themself the voice of the masses, but I think you'll find you have a much stronger arguing point in almost any situation if you relay personal experiences and draw a conclusion that relates to yourself, rather than trying to take a very small, skewed sample and pin it on the entire playerbase to make your position seem stronger.

[Hyperborean]

He's asking Blizzard to stick to their core design from the beginning of the game instead of caring about idiots who don't know what to do with their time.

I'd love to roll this thread into a "vanilla wow was better" thread. Then we can point out that Blizz is just trying to make money off our subs, and that their motive for making the game fun and accessible, and that the diverse playerbase is happy and enjoying themselves, is purely capitalist.

[Regalbeast]

this thread is still going?

how

It obviously hit a nerve with a lot of MMO-C posters.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well it certainly was kind of a dampener on our mood when some found out that a family&friends invited person which professes to be some kind of casual, was jumping around with 10 more item levels than the people that have downed several mythic EN bosses so far. In the end it it's surely not everyone getting such drastically better gear, I know mysefl that most of my mythic+ gear so far was utter trash, but I wouldn't deny that it might be overtuned a bit if you spam low to mid keystones thanks to reta.. I mean titanforging.

[Fenzha]

As someone that will never touch mythic+ with a 10 foot pole i would rather they make normal mythics something i can run repeatedly for loot than have them cap mythic+.

[Basileus]

I think the only thing that needs fixing are the people who leave mid run. Had THREE tanks bail today on three of my keys. Lost all three.

I'm an asshole, but I think people who leave shouldn't be able to run for the rest of the week.

[ssviolett]

Then you also have to limit PvP gains, oh and please limit mythic raid benefits too - because not many people can go there/have the time for that, etc. etc. etc.

In the end you'll have your garrison simulator back and everyone will whine about how they have nothing to do.

wtf you are talking about? there is already caps for everything - arena gear per week, raid lockouts, one weekly chest, everything except Mythic+. Please, get at least minimum knowledge about the game before you post.

[Faenskap]

This is a personal problem, not a game problem. I also do not have the time to spam M+ and yet I do not feel compelled to whatsoever. I would argue that caps are actually more unhealthy for the game, because then suddenly I WOULD feel compelled to hit the cap each week. At the mo I just pick it up when I get time and have fun. That's better.

Also, what exactly is wrong with rewarding people who spend more time on something? If they put more in they should get more out of it.

I agree with this. OP, I play more than you, but I still don't feel that I have to do harder content in order to get more AP. Yes, I'd like that artifact skin for unlocking every trait now but, still, it'll come in due time, so I sit back and know that I'll have it one day.

Furthermore, I don't have a problem with people putting in more hours in harder content getting rewarded for that, as long as I - a non-raider/non-highend PvPer - have things to do/meaningful content for me. If you can't put in the time you want, I think you should rather spend the little time you have doing something you enjoy, than forcing yourself to do something you don't actually enjoy and stressing you out. Yes, we are both behind the more ambitous people dedicating more time/effort, but relax. It's only a problem because you see it as one.

The expansion is 3 months old, and I don't feel Blizzard is being too mean with pacing things out a little.

[Deleted]

OP is one od these reasons why blizzard does not listen the community Are u srsly crying that u can't be ahead of curve while playing 1-2 hours a day? Lol. It is MMORPG, the more u play the more u get. Simple as that. I am playing about 3h a day and while not farming any AP my artifact weapon is now at 31lvl.
However, maybe OP has some great idea what the players that play more than 5h a day would do in wow if mythic+ would be gated on 2 runs per day. Doing 2 mythic+ runs at around 10lvl takes no more than 1h...
If u are casual u should not QQ about gearing system as u simply won't need that much of gear anyway...

Ps. People are crying about artifact level while it has the least impact on our dps. Between 25 and 31lvl of artifact weapon it is maybe 4% increase in dps, huge difference hm?

[khalltusk]

Yes! Ive been enjoying it immensely. The.variety of activities availablr is great. I actually even picked up raiding again as well. Done a few speed runs too. Highest so far has been +7. For the most part this expansion has been a blast. Fuck legendaries and fuck suramar though.

heh, I got sephuz on two characters, I had a positive mind set towards these items and so far I am OK with it. Suramar I really enjoyed aside the elite area that place can go disappear into a black hole. That aside the general questing I enjoyed (cut scenes had some real feels to them), M+ has been a positive change for me, cleared a 10 not in the timer sadly but still got loot from it. Raidings been OK for a scrub casual like myself. Cleared EN on normal and up to last boss on HC. TOV I will get around to on Normal in a few weeks.

Kara - they need more dungeons like this, not since BRD have I felt a dungeon feel immense and immersive like this. Might be some nostalgia there but still, give me a few more dungeons like this. Later on they can open it up to LFD and split it into wings etc perfectly cool with that as I think its a fantastic idea.

The new mounts from the isle are great, currently working on my snowfeather one and need ursoc + one more pet battle to unlock it. This time in Warlords I was already unsubbed, as for me it was raid or die. The addition of scenarios in the near future again will certainly make me happy as well. Missed doing those.