Most Americans Don't Want Undocumented Immigrants to Leave

[Kalis]

People who take drugs are not responsible for our Drug Policy. But the drug users do create the demand for drugs coming here.


Geezus! Didn't I just effing say that Americans will not do these jobs, especially for the shit wages.

If there aren't any illegal immigrants, then companies will have to up their pay in order to get workers.

Why do you hate working class Americans and legal immigrants?


Deja vu.

[Mormolyce]

If there aren't any illegal immigrants, then companies will have to up their pay in order to get workers.

Why do you hate working class Americans and legal immigrants?

If they raise the pay then why wouldn't non-immigrants want to do the job?

What makes you think I support businesses paying substandard wages to illegal immigrants under the table anyway?

[Tennis]

As Trump campaigned on deporting illegal immigrants and just won the Presidency, then that is a better yardstick for American attitudes.

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If there aren't any illegal immigrants, then companies will have to up their pay in order to get workers.

Why do you hate working class Americans and legal immigrants?

Oh I agree. How many Americans voted for him? Less than 25% of the country. The elections result doesn't disprove anything. Nice try.

[Paranoid Android]

Isn't this the same media that polled and said Clinton had a 10 point lead and was going to easily win the presidency?

Final NBC/WSJ Poll: Clinton Holds a Four-Point National Lead Over Trump. It was actually within the plus/minus 3/4%. Hillary does have a 2 million vote lead. Too lazy to look but its almost 2%. So technically they were correct.

Yes they didn't predict swing states and since small wins in popular votes in any number of states in a "take all" electoral vote. That can swing the election.

[Kalis]

If they raise the pay then why wouldn't non-immigrants want to do the job?

That is kind of the point. You don't want to flood the market with cheap labour, as it is detrimental to the working classes.

What makes you think I support businesses paying substandard wages to illegal immigrants under the table anyway?

Then you support strong immigration controls?

[Thepersona]

No, that's true. However a poll is hardly relevant when it's such a small sample size (0.000003%), especially when the pollers go after specific demographics of people to get responses to back what they want to publish.

Definitely going to get a good idea of what the "majority" want.

you dont know how stats works right?
when done right (ie, full randomization) a sample of 1000 can represent 300 millions very easily, just as likely as a sample of 50 million

[Paranoid Android]

If they raise the pay then why wouldn't non-immigrants want to do the job?

What makes you think I support businesses paying substandard wages to illegal immigrants under the table anyway?

That dude is arguing some dumb shit that you and I do not condone. Instead of seeing both our views on the businesses contribution to the problem. He/she just wines about illegals and open borders.

[Kalis]

Oh I agree. How many Americans voted for him? Less than 25% of the country. The elections result doesn't disprove anything. Nice try.

How many people were polled? Less than...I can't even be bothered to work out what percentage it was, as it was so low.

[Kaleredar]

If there aren't any illegal immigrants, then companies will have to up their pay in order to get workers.

Then either the price of food increases or the US begins to import more food and farmers start losing their jobs. That money to pay the workers has to come from somewhere.


Example after example has proven that American workers will not do farm labor jobs at minimum wage, much less for the wages immigrants do them at.

Conservatives are bitching a fit about how their big macs will cost 30 cents more if the minimum wage is raised to 15 dollars; the moaning would be legendary if suddenly ALL food could no longer be harvested for pennies to the dollar.

[Paranoid Android]

Then either the price of food increases or the US begins to import more food and farmers start losing their jobs. That money to pay the workers has to come from somewhere.


Example after example has proven that American workers will not do farm labor jobs at minimum wage, much less for the wages immigrants do them at.

Conservatives are bitching a fit about how their big macs will cost 30 cents more if the minimum wage is raised to 15 dollars; the moaning would be legendary if suddenly ALL food could no longer be harvested for pennies to the dollar.

I have been saying this past two pages to that person. He/she still cannot grasp that shit.

[Kalis]

Then either the price of food increases or the US begins to import more food. That money to pay the workers has to come from somewhere.


Example after example has proven that American workers will not do farm labor jobs at minimum wage, much less for the wages immigrants do them at.

Conservatives are bitching a fit about how their big macs will cost 30 cents more if the minimum wage is raised to 15 dollars; the moaning would be legendary if suddenly ALL food could no longer be harvested for pennies to the dollar.

That argument is shit when used for minimum wage increases, so what is your point?

[TrumpIsPresident]

Well, it's at least nice of you to recognize your sites are 100% bullshit. Making progress I assume.

Haha, ya that was the point, right, riiight.

[Kalis]

I am going to do what quite a few love to do when they cannot make a substantial argument.

What? Send me a PM telling me that you are going to ignore me for being mean?

[Mormolyce]

That is kind of the point. You don't want to flood the market with cheap labour, as it is detrimental to the working classes.

Then you support strong immigration controls?

Well, assuming I gave a shit about immigration, which I really don't, and assuming I lived in the US, then I would probably support prosecuting businesses that employ illegal immigrants. Seems like a much better way to go about it than wasting time building fantasy walls that won't work.

And besides, I'd be much more concerned about businesses undermining minimum wage legislation than illegal immigrants.

[Kaleredar]

That argument is shit when used for minimum wage increases, so what is your point?

My point is: who's eating the cost for the increase in wages?


The increase in minimum wage is nominal and can be eaten at the corporate level with little impact on the cost of any of the goods produced. The only argument "against" minimum wage increases are people not wanting it "because they don't think people should take minimum wage jobs to live off of" and corporate level greed. Which is stupid.

The increase in wages to coerce American citizens to take farm labor jobs (which would likely have to be HIGHER than minimum wage, as minimum wage doesn't work now) is an increase that would be magnitudes greater and has no "corporate level" to eat the impact. You'd not only be hypothetically fielding an entirely NEW workforce (meaning you also have to find that many unemployed individuals or individuals working the jobs in very specific locations) but have to pay them the new wages.

So again: where does that money come from?

Americans aren't losing farm labor jobs to illegal immigrants. Americans won't do those jobs, period.

[Paranoid Android]

Well, assuming I gave a shit about immigration, which I really don't, and assuming I lived in the US, then I would probably support prosecuting businesses that employ illegal immigrants. Seems like a much better way to go about it than wasting time building fantasy walls that won't work.

And besides, I'd be much more concerned about businesses undermining minimum wage legislation than illegal immigrants.

Thank you!! I hope that person gets it. The lonely lil immigrant is just the whipping boy of a one political party to stir up whatever you want to call it.

To be clear both parties protect businesses over hiring of illegals. Only one used to with a heavy hand in prosecuting one side.

[Kalis]

Well, assuming I gave a shit about immigration, which I really don't, and assuming I lived in the US, then I would probably support prosecuting businesses that employ illegal immigrants. Seems like a much better way to go about it than wasting time building fantasy walls that won't work.

And besides, I'd be much more concerned about businesses undermining minimum wage legislation than illegal immigrants.

If you don't stop the illegal immigrants, then it is going to be a wasted effort.

The wall is dumb though.

[Paranoid Android]

My point is: who's eating the cost for the increase in wages?


The increase in minimum wage is nominal and can be eaten at the corporate level with little impact on the cost of any of the goods produced. The only argument "against" minimum wage increases are people not wanting it "because they don't think people should take minimum wage jobs to live off of" and corporate level greed. Which is stupid.

Americans aren't losing farm labor jobs to illegal immigrants. Americans won't do those jobs, period.

Wait. So if you pay someone a wage they can live on. They might actually take that job. Amazing how that works.

<snark> I agree with u.

[Kaleredar]

Thank you!! I hope that person gets it. The lonely lil immigrant is just the whipping boy of a one political party to stir up whatever you want to call it.

Some of the biggest hypocrites are the central Californian farmers who supported Trump because he pandered to them about water. If Trump did successfully kick all the illegals out or somesuch, there'd be no one to pick Central California's crops.

To be clear both parties protect businesses over hiring of illegals. Only one used to with a heavy hand in prosecuting one side.

And the persecution part is what makes it less of a true parallel.

I feel that people do nothing but muddy the discussion when they make a point that "both sides" do something. Generally, that's the case... But when one side does SO many other things so much more than the other side (Gerrymandering, lying in the past election, etc,) it no longer seems equatable to point out "well sure both sides do it."

[Paranoid Android]

And the persecution part is what makes it less of a true parallel.

I feel that people do nothing but muddy the discussion when they make a point that "both sides" do something. Generally, that's the case... But when one side does SO many other things so much more than the other side, it no longer seems equatable.

No doubt. Which is why it is xenophobia and nationalism. I know for most in here those are too strong of words, but it is exactly what it is. They are persecuting one party, which in the big picture, has the least influence of why our wages and job opportunities are fucked up.