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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Dehooka View Post
    Out of curiosity, how does a guild of your caliber manage when players lack of accountability and professionalism gets in the way of the message the leadership projects. For example, your letter was well-written, thoroughly thought out, and overall the only redeeming factor of this whole mess, but it seems strange to someone like myself on the outside when your players, even as high as your officers, consistently demonstrate that they feel different about the matter. From everything that has come out, it just seems like a few players in the guild are genuinely apologetic and regret the decision, but others are taking it very lightly and even went as far as bad mouthing fellow top-end guilds regarding the matter.
    The fact of the matter is is that we have ~26 people in our guild all with different opinions and different ways of coping with a frustrating (and deserved) punishment regarding a mistake we made. The guild statement reflects our overall feeling regarding the ban. We deserve it, we knew it was an exploit, and we made an incorrect call to use the exploit on the basis of some foolish assumptions. That is the truth and nothing will change that. Whether certain people want to go on social media to partake in harmless trash talk or make seemingly arrogant claims that we would have killed the boss without it (based on some level of truth..) should have no bearing on the integrity of our initial message. In fact, Max and Dossou both wholeheartedly agree with our initial guild statement. What they have said in social media do not really contradict that.

    On another note, I find the questions you ask along with their phrasing completely and totally asinine. Not to mention you made your forum account for this specific scandal and named it eerily close to a fairly well known member of our guild and a large majority of your posts are almost strictly hounding our guild. Why don't you represent yourself more wholly with some of that accountability that you so greatly value?

    Out of curiosity, how does a guild of your caliber manage when players lack of accountability and professionalism gets in the way of the message the leadership projects.
    What the hell does this mean? You have to remember that this is about a group of people that exploited a mechanic in a video game. We're not BP or some other corporation embroiled in a scandal.
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2016-11-25 at 04:50 AM.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjaguar View Post
    The fact of the matter is is that we have ~26 people in our guild all with different opinions and different ways of coping with a frustrating (and deserved) punishment regarding a mistake we made. The guild statement reflects our overall feeling regarding the ban. We deserve it, we knew it was an exploit, and we made an incorrect call to use the exploit on the basis of some foolish assumptions. That is the truth and nothing will change that. Whether certain people want to go on social media to partake in harmless trash talk or make seemingly arrogant claims that we would have killed the boss without it (based on some level of truth..) should have no bearing on the integrity of our initial message. In fact, Max and Dossou both wholeheartedly agree with our initial guild statement. What they have said in social media do not really contradict that.

    On another note, I find the questions you ask along with their phrasing completely and totally asinine. Not to mention you made your forum account for this specific scandal and named it eerily close to a fairly well known member of our guild and a large majority of your posts are almost strictly hounding our guild. Why don't you represent yourself more wholly with some of that accountability that you so greatly value?



    What the hell does this mean? You have to remember that this is about a group of people that exploited a mechanic in a video game. We're not BP or some other corporation embroiled in a scandal.
    First, to say that those statements were "harmless trash talk" is ridiculous in itself; it just proves that there is zero accountability. As somebody who was genuinely proud of how well the US did in this progression race, it just seemed immature to bash Midwinter, which is our next best chance at a top 5 world kill. Then you also said that you would have killed the boss without the exploit is equally silly. Your guild even stated you killed it within 5 attempts of seeing the final phase with the exploit. The fact that no other guild has been able to kill this guild since Exorsus, From Scratch, and Limit were banned speaks to the difficulty of the boss, especially considering 5 of the guilds still working on the boss beat Limit in Emerald Nightmare. So I actually find it incredibly arrogant that your guild even up to the levels of you as the GM feel like you would of killed the boss regardless of exploiting within a short time. I wish your confidence would have been this strong when you were deciding to exploit so that you could have made the morally just decision not to exploit.

  3. #443
    lol unreal that method is the only guild that killed the boss without exploiting shadow priest or the breath and noone can kill the boss yet.. i wonder what happens to serenity when people realize serenity had viklund exploit so they would have the dmg to down her

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Keska71 View Post
    lol unreal that method is the only guild that killed the boss without exploiting shadow priest or the breath and noone can kill the boss yet.. i wonder what happens to serenity when people realize serenity had viklund exploit so they would have the dmg to down her
    You do realize that p1/p2 is not the hardest part of that fight? and that the guilds that killed it/cheated killed it all were making P3 consistently... The bug is only doable in p2..... So the bug actually had as Much effect on the outcome as a Demon hunter using Prepull mastery gear then swapping.... or any other tiny "unintended thing" than guilds are using. Very Little actual effect on the actual outcome of P3..

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Yindoo View Post
    Man dude, you got some serious issues. They are just a guild in a video game.
    yeah he doesnt even care about shadow priests exploiting everything like crazy AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT!! your reaction would make sense if they weren't banned but they did get banned.

    edit: where is the official tweet statement? dehooka removed it from the OP looks like
    Last edited by Keska71; 2016-11-25 at 06:13 AM.

  6. #446
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    I can safely tell you that the blink chest is one of the best legendaries unless the only thing you care about is big dick deeps.
    Too much asmongold

  7. #447
    why did u remove the official statement from OP??

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Insomlol View Post
    I think the point theyre trying to say is, if Helya kept breathing after the tank had died (not the same cast) in the same way that Archimonde did with the wrought. Then this wouldnt be a problem?

    Im agreeing with the fact that they shouldnt have used the bug. But i can understand how they found it (saccing a tank)
    If For Scratch, Limit and others found this bug you can be damn sure that Method and Serenity did as well, however they chose to not exploit it and that shows who's the honest top guilds.
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    Blizzard's terms are not laws, and Blizzard has no legal recourse against individuals who do it outside of civil tort, and even that's a joke (this person sold his services and time to this other person by means of performing some action in the game, in what way does this harm Blizzard?)

    Ultimately Blizzard rarely does anything about it. They allow and even offer support when in-game gold is involved, but I've never even heard of people getting bans after scamming when real money is involved. I doubt they care except in extreme cases like doing it on a popular stream.
    Except no matter what it is still against the Terms of Service and if Blizzard felt inclined to enforce it (as they've stated in the past) they can just flat out ban their accounts or even hardware ban them (as in the case they've done with Overwatch).

    There isn't anything about it being law or anything at all. Blizzard can ban them for whatever reason if they choose so not really sure what angle you are trying to play at.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    If For Scratch, Limit and others found this bug you can be damn sure that Method and Serenity did as well, however they chose to not exploit it and that shows who's the honest top guilds.
    Yeah Serenity were just exploiting different things during the fight.

  11. #451
    Weren't these guilds just complaining about EN being too easy? Particularly the last boss? Now we get a raid that's harder, particularly the last boss, and exploits are used in the first week to beat it? smh

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Except no matter what it is still against the Terms of Service and if Blizzard felt inclined to enforce it (as they've stated in the past) they can just flat out ban their accounts or even hardware ban them (as in the case they've done with Overwatch).

    There isn't anything about it being law or anything at all. Blizzard can ban them for whatever reason if they choose so not really sure what angle you are trying to play at.
    That's not what the word "illegal" means. People say stupid things like "selling runs is illegal." No.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    That's not what the word "illegal" means. People say stupid things like "selling runs is illegal." No.
    Except, I never said it was illegal. Just that it was against the Terms of Service.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Except, I never said it was illegal. Just that it was against the Terms of Service.
    Quote Originally Posted by xqt View Post
    Isnt it funny how Exorsus just admits they sell Boost for Real Money which is illegal so if Blizzard has any Balls they give them 6months+ Ban
    This is the original quote I responded to. I just said it's not illegal.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    This is the original quote I responded to. I just said it's not illegal.
    Yeah, but in your original post you quoted me and then someone say "Yes it is". Which was nothing to do with the context and the confusion. Looks like you meant to quote something else, but got the wrong post.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Actually that's a different deal.

    There are places where using clever game mechanics or the tools you have to avoid damage - such as the lock dispel prior to the hotfix or monks on Blackhand - that Blizz is ok with. It's not really a bug, in the one case it was just an oversight and in the other it's basically how monks worked then and how they work now.

    Completely negating a mechanic through intentional and reproducible means though is a big deal and will get you the ban. We saw this on LK with the saronite bombs and we are seeing it here with the helya breath combat rez. If all the rez did was allowed you to soak with one character and then rez them and be forced to rez them again as the mechanic continued throughout the fight then Blizz would have been fine with it.

    It didn't do that though. It straight up turned off a mechanic that then downtuned the fight to a lower tier where that particular mechanic wouldn't otherwise be there.

    Sorry, but you don't get mythic rewards for completing LFR level content with mythic HP on the mobs.
    Sorry, just don't see the difference there. I knew that I won't gain insanity if I used imp, so I specifically summoned him, when my usual choice would be grimoire of sacrifice.
    By removing insanity gain from that ability we intentionally made the fight easier, by getting rid of a certain mechanic, making boss easier.
    That's basically what Exorsus and others did, they exploited an oversight by blizzard. Kinda unfair imho

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by The Emperor View Post
    That's basically what Exorsus and others did, they exploited an oversight by blizzard. Kinda unfair imho
    And you can be sure developers watch close when world first guilds do a boss, as in real time as it's the ultimate check for themselves if an encouter works.
    They see them using mechanics for days and can't ban days later when the mechanic guilds used in p1 have a side effect in p3.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by The Emperor View Post
    Sorry, just don't see the difference there. I knew that I won't gain insanity if I used imp, so I specifically summoned him, when my usual choice would be grimoire of sacrifice.
    By removing insanity gain from that ability we intentionally made the fight easier, by getting rid of a certain mechanic, making boss easier.
    That's basically what Exorsus and others did, they exploited an oversight by blizzard. Kinda unfair imho
    Unless your raid decided to entirely class-stack Warlocks in order to secure a week-1 kill it's most definitely NOT the same thing.

    Yes it's a bug that you took advantage of but the severity when compared to avoiding the breath is of pretty wide magnitudes.

    Guilds weren't downing Xavius on the strength of their 3 or 4 warlocks being able to soak later in the encounter, but a lot of guilds only managed to secure their kill by glitching Helya.

    Should Blizz have caught it? Yup.

    Does that give those guilds a license to escape punishment for having exploited the bug? No. Of course not. As I said earlier that's like saying you're not responsible for taking $40 off someone's desk at work because they didn't secure it.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    It is slightly different. Source of Chaos will kill your tank unless the raid soaks the beam and kills the Source. Fair enough, some guilds just let the tank die and get a rez to save some DPS.

    The method of dying on Helya though prevents the breath from being cast at all. No damage goes out, no adds spawn, no patches of goo fill the room. Clearly not a way that's intended, although I still think it could be filed under clever use of game mechanics, and it's easily within Blizz's ability to change how the cast works if they don't like guilds doing it that way.
    Its funny because your post shows how blurry the line is. It was stated that killing the tank to negate breathe is acceptable, what was not acceptable was the part where breathe stopped being cast in P3
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Everything is artificially prolonging the game, it's called the game

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaklog View Post
    Its funny because your post shows how blurry the line is. It was stated that killing the tank to negate breathe is acceptable, what was not acceptable was the part where breathe stopped being cast in P3
    That's a pretty clear difference to me. It's like, say, having someone go into a corner and die when they get the hammer debuff on Tyrant. You negate the mechanic as it was intended, but you don't ignore it entirely, someone has to die or pop an immunity- clever use of game mechanics. If you found a way to make the boss never cast the debuff for all three phases, and consistently used that, then it's an exploit that outright removes a mechanic, that's not OK.

    Same thing here. Stacking the adds removes a lot of the mechanic's dangers, but doesn't entirely ignore it, and she still breathes in ph3. Obviously, Blizzard thinks it's unintended if they fix it, but it doesn't cross the line into an exploit that entirely removes breath from the equation for the entire fight. And killing the tank to negate one breath would be acceptable, many mechanics were handled this way over WoW's history, Blizzard is obviously OK with that.

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