Protection legion Discussion

[Kueson]

Devastator makes Devastate become a passive making it proc on white swings. It still has the same chance to proc SS.

To be honest I seem to like the gameplay with Devastator.

Being completely honest, I can get behind the Devastator playstyle, its giving up 25% HP from Indomitable that is sort of an issue for me.

I don't see any reason Devastator is on out level 75 tier. It makes far more sense to have it replace Ultimatum.

For that matter, Best Served Cold should not be re-tuned into a DPS talent. It would make far more sense to keep it right where it is and turn it into something like "Revenge increases the maximum effect of your next Ignore Pain by X% per target hit, up to 5." The level 75 tier is a survival choice tier, why is there a DPS talent on it now. >.>

[Senen]

I've just read the blue post about the design philosophy behind the changes and I'm in awe.
I thought this expansion was about class/spec identity. The one thing warprots have always have is: slow gcd, gcd capped, rage spenders off gcd.
Now Blizzard tells us "Yeah, we don't want you to have a rage spender off gcd. Oh, and btw, what about not being gcd capped anymore?"
WHAT. THE. FIRETRUCK.

Worst part is I kinda liked the PTR changes (not a huge fan of 7.0 prot) but I was hopeful and thought that Blizzard would iterate a bit to find a decent rotation with a spender off gcd.
Now I'm sad.

Also to the people saying "they said Devastator is just a gameplay choice and wouldn't be the best choice in the row":
1) With current design, if Devastator is even remotely competitive for ST, it will be the best choice BY FAR for Mythic+
2) They said the same thing for Demon Blades, and now it's the best talent for Havoc DH. So yeah, let's NOT trust Blizzard on that one.

[Milocow]

double revenge's damage kthxbye

also is thundercrash best dps relic now loool?

[Deleted]

I have some questions regarding SB uptime.

SB has a 13second charge cooldown.
With 30% haste the charge cooldown is 10 seconds or 8.666666667 GCDs.

SB buff lasts 6 seconds enhanced by 1.5 seconds if SS is used and Heavy Repercussions is specced.

If you SB just before SS you always get your 7.5 seconds.
With 30% haste SS has a cooldown of 6.923076923 seconds or 6 GCDs.

Means inside the 7.5 second buff you can use SS again. This brings the buff duration to 9 seconds. Still 1 second short of the 10 second charge cooldown.
After 9 seconds we can use our second shield block charge. But this charge might only be increased by one Shield Slam.

How do people say that you have 100% SB uptime with 30% haste. From my understanding that is not possible. Because of the charge cooldown gap you will run out of charges. Am I missing sth?

[THE Bigzoman]

I'm a bit late to the party. I have a few questions for the grizzled vets here on how to play, gear, and upcoming changes.

1. Ignore Pain Utilization : I recently started tanking Mythics and realized that I'm not 100% clear on how it works. At first, I thought I had to time my Ignore Pains so one would immediately follower another when either one wears off or is eaten through by mobs. But when I messed with it earlier this morning, I discovered that Ignore Pain may have a stacking effect and that mythic enemies do so much damage that I can't time one after another unless I pop CDs. Am I in the ballpark? Regardless of if I am or not, how do I get the most out of Ignore Pain?


2. Gear Optimization, . Most resources i've read/watched say one of two things: Either Haste>Versatility or Versatility>Haste.
Should one of these stats take precedent over the other or is there no clear answer? If there isn't a clear answer, what are the pros and cons of prioritizing one over the other? I should be able to chart an optimal tanking set for content once I find these answers.

3. Thoughts on Upcoming changes and where I can find them I never liked focused rage because I really liked the HS setup in WOD. I think Focused Rage is just a clunkier version of Heroic Stike, so I wondered why Blizz even bothered. I'm not 100% on what the other changes are because I can't find them on MMOC's front page or the Blizzard site. Where are you guys getting this info from?

[Sluvs]

I came here to ask for tips on how to weave focused rage + ignore pain using the vengeance talent. Well, now that´s gone I suppose.

[Voyle]

I have some questions regarding SB uptime.

SB has a 13second charge cooldown.
With 30% haste the charge cooldown is 10 seconds or 8.666666667 GCDs.

SB buff lasts 6 seconds enhanced by 1.5 seconds if SS is used and Heavy Repercussions is specced.

If you SB just before SS you always get your 7.5 seconds.
With 30% haste SS has a cooldown of 6.923076923 seconds or 6 GCDs.

Means inside the 7.5 second buff you can use SS again. This brings the buff duration to 9 seconds. Still 1 second short of the 10 second charge cooldown.
After 9 seconds we can use our second shield block charge. But this charge might only be increased by one Shield Slam.

How do people say that you have 100% SB uptime with 30% haste. From my understanding that is not possible. Because of the charge cooldown gap you will run out of charges. Am I missing sth?

You are missing the chance to proc shield slam earlier than once every 6 GCDs.

Edit: most people also only say effective uptime, as in 100% of the time you are tanking

- - - Updated - - -

I'm a bit late to the party. I have a few questions for the grizzled vets here on how to play, gear, and upcoming changes.

1. Ignore Pain Utilization : I recently started tanking Mythics and realized that I'm not 100% clear on how it works. At first, I thought I had to time my Ignore Pains so one would immediately follower another when either one wears off or is eaten through by mobs. But when I messed with it earlier this morning, I discovered that Ignore Pain may have a stacking effect and that mythic enemies do so much damage that I can't time one after another unless I pop CDs. Am I in the ballpark? Regardless of if I am or not, how do I get the most out of Ignore Pain?


2. Gear Optimization, . Most resources i've read/watched say one of two things: Either Haste>Versatility or Versatility>Haste.
Should one of these stats take precedent over the other or is there no clear answer? If there isn't a clear answer, what are the pros and cons of prioritizing one over the other? I should be able to chart an optimal tanking set for content once I find these answers.

3. Thoughts on Upcoming changes and where I can find them I never liked focused rage because I really liked the HS setup in WOD. I think Focused Rage is just a clunkier version of Heroic Stike, so I wondered why Blizz even bothered. I'm not 100% on what the other changes are because I can't find them on MMOC's front page or the Blizzard site. Where are you guys getting this info from?

1. With the indomitable talent IP stacks up to 3 times (60 rage worth), and never surrender allows 6 stacks of IP, in most scenarios where you are taking somewhat serious damage you will be able to use ignore pain without wasting it. Generally you do want to use IP a second time before the first one runs out, however in the other scenario where mobs are ripping through it faster than you can put it back up you should be using it when you are below 80%ish health so that the healer can begin healing you while you are saving up rage again to use it another time. If you are doing a boss that does burst damage or vs casters you may want to apply as soon as you have rage to avoid giving your healer brown pants.

2. Versatility was thought to be the better stat based on sims that have since proven unreliable. Most players are now suggesting Haste 20-30% suggested > Mastery > Versatility >>>>> Crit (avoid crit). Haste gives you more shield block up time, mastery gives you more critical block, versatility reduces all damage (especially useful vs magic as you cannot block it), crit gives you parry.

3. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post43306382 Plus yesterday has a warbringer change to 2.5 seconds

[Lysozyme]

Vers was better because IP was 50% stronger than it is now at the time

[Zortorai90]

So let me get this right.
They are removing a worthless talent in Best Served Cold, replacing it with a damn near mandatory talent in Devastator. So by taking Devastator we will lose 25% increased HP and 25% IP effectiveness. They are also removing Focus Rage, which has already been nerfed once before, so Vengeance is going to be worthless, and the other two talents on that line are always pretty much worthless. So now Ignore Pain is going to be even more gibbed than its been since the round about nerf it got and the direct nerf it got.

And all of this just to make Revenge a "bigger" ability.

Is it Blizzards goal to just murder prot warriors?
or am I missing something?

[Bigbazz]

So let me get this right.
They are removing a worthless talent in Best Served Cold, replacing it with a damn near mandatory talent in Devastator. So by taking Devastator we will lose 25% increased HP and 25% IP effectiveness. They are also removing Focus Rage, which has already been nerfed once before, so Vengeance is going to be worthless, and the other two talents on that line are always pretty much worthless. So now Ignore Pain is going to be even more gibbed than its been since the round about nerf it got and the direct nerf it got.

And all of this just to make Revenge a "bigger" ability.

Is it Blizzards goal to just murder prot warriors?
or am I missing something?

They wanted to leave class re-designs to new expansion packs, so instead they re-designed Prot in a way that changes the playstyle more than it did from WOD to Legion.. In other words as usual Blizzard talks one thing and does another, their actions (or lack of at times) always speak louder than their words, which as usual have little relevance to what is going on or what is going to happen.

I definitely fall into the crowd of player who really likes the off-gcd gameplay, and quite frankly their hardon to remove it has annoyed me greatly over the years. If it was my choice I would fire the lot of them, there is a clear line of mis-communication between the actual team doing the work and the guys communicating to the playerbase, and there is a clear lack of communication between the players and those communicating to the engineers/designers.

[Senen]

I have some questions regarding SB uptime.

SB has a 13second charge cooldown.
With 30% haste the charge cooldown is 10 seconds or 8.666666667 GCDs.

SB buff lasts 6 seconds enhanced by 1.5 seconds if SS is used and Heavy Repercussions is specced.

If you SB just before SS you always get your 7.5 seconds.
With 30% haste SS has a cooldown of 6.923076923 seconds or 6 GCDs.

Means inside the 7.5 second buff you can use SS again. This brings the buff duration to 9 seconds. Still 1 second short of the 10 second charge cooldown.
After 9 seconds we can use our second shield block charge. But this charge might only be increased by one Shield Slam.

How do people say that you have 100% SB uptime with 30% haste. From my understanding that is not possible. Because of the charge cooldown gap you will run out of charges. Am I missing sth?

You are missing the chance to proc shield slam earlier than once every 6 GCDs.

Edit: most people also only say effective uptime, as in 100% of the time you are tankings

That, plus the fact you can use your artifact ability to fill a SB gap.
But yeah, I'm currently at 30% Haste and still stacking a bit more to be reliably at 100% uptime for m+ runs.

They wanted to leave class re-designs to new expansion packs, so instead they re-designed Prot in a way that changes the playstyle more than it did from WOD to Legion..

To be honest, it's probably a bigger change that anything that happened to prot since MoP.

[Deleted]

@Voyle + @Senen
Thank you.

What annoys me about SS/SB is the following. What happens if I get that SS proc early but SB is running out in 2 seconds and the next charge becoming available in 1.5. Then I have to SS and do not even get to buff the SB without delaying SS. With bad luck I only get an SB buff that lasts 6 seconds. That is a big 4 second gap in the cooldown.

On top of that...our artifact stinks! How many times do you need to run out of puddles/bad stuff or get knockbacked/stunned while trying to use that artifact. Three seconds casting is really long at times.

Btw, is there any current prot warrior blogging? In only found https://vengeancetanking.wordpress.com/ from end of WoD.

[Toybox]

@Voyle + @Senen
Thank you.

What annoys me about SS/SB is the following. What happens if I get that SS proc early but SB is running out in 2 seconds and the next charge becoming available in 1.5. Then I have to SS and do not even get to buff the SB without delaying SS. With bad luck I only get an SB buff that lasts 6 seconds. That is a big 4 second gap in the cooldown.

On top of that...our artifact stinks! How many times do you need to run out of puddles/bad stuff or get knockbacked/stunned while trying to use that artifact. Three seconds casting is really long at times.

I don't think our artifact ability is that bad, but we really do need to be able to move while casting it.

[vsb]

What annoys me about SS/SB is the following. What happens if I get that SS proc early but SB is running out in 2 seconds and the next charge becoming available in 1.5. Then I have to SS and do not even get to buff the SB without delaying SS.

I don't get it. Your shield block buff timer is additive. If you have SS, use it immediately. If you have SB, use it immediately. You don't need to time it. The only time you don't want to use it if you don't need it.

On top of that...our artifact stinks! How many times do you need to run out of puddles/bad stuff or get knockbacked/stunned while trying to use that artifact. Three seconds casting is really long at times.

Learn the encounter. Finding 3 seconds when you don't need to run is not that hard.

[server22]

what are the best dmg-aoe wise (and ST) trinkets for prot warrior? i got 850 stat stick, 870 angerboda , 850socketed shivermaw jawbone ,875 seed pod ,870 appendages , 850 horn o valor , 855 terrorbound nexus. Also is the hunt of Attunement aoe proc neck worth the deal at all? (i got shield legendary neck tho)

i usually run with seed pod +terrbound nexus and doing arround 230-300k overall depending on the instance/affixes/grp etc but i need moaaaar

edit: also im running with 25-29% haste , shall i switch to mastery/versa gear when dmg mitigation on lower mythic+ isnt much of a concern to do more dmg or not?

[Deleted]

They wanted to leave class re-designs to new expansion packs, so instead they re-designed Prot in a way that changes the playstyle more than it did from WOD to Legion.. In other words as usual Blizzard talks one thing and does another, their actions (or lack of at times) always speak louder than their words, which as usual have little relevance to what is going on or what is going to happen.

Its not a big re-design. The change isnt even that big with Indomitable and Vengeance. Just change the keybindings of Thunder Clap and Revenge with each other and adopt a bit with the use of Revenge. Thats all and still feels 100% like playing my warrior. To be honest the "new" 7.1.5 playstayle feels more like my warrior, than the devastate spam hell we are now in.

I also dont expect devastator to be the way to go. Maybe for hard AoE (mythic+ maybe), because you are able to spam AoE abilities all the time. I dont think it will be the best in all situations. But thats what talents are for. You should change them to min max and not use the same talents all the time, like we are doing it right now.

[Bigbazz]

what are the best dmg-aoe wise (and ST) trinkets for warrior? i got 850 stat stick, 870 angerboda , 850socketed shivermaw jawbone ,875 seed pod ,870 appendages , 850 horn o valor , 855 terrorbound nexus. Also is the hunt of Attunement aoe proc neck worth the deal at all? (i got shield legendary neck tho)

i usually run with seed pod +terrbound nexus and doing arround 230-300k overall depending on the instance/affixes/grp etc but i need moaaaar

Single target? Appendiges + I don't know On AOE? Giant Pearl + ??.. Giant Ornamental Pearl is by far the best AOE trinket if you can get decent ilvl, since it provides both survival and damage on a 1min cooldown to pair with Battle Cry. So on a big AOE pack you regularly see crits over 5million.



From a Karazhan run 3-4 weeks ago. Gaseous Explosion is the Giant Pearl (ilvl850). I tend to use this + Arcano Crystal for everything.

[server22]

damn i have 860 socketed pearl i didnt even bother mentioning it (even using it so far xD). going to test it right now thanks a lot

my only concern is if there is a priority on absorb effects cause with shield neck +IP+ blocks+grp cc if the trinket fails to explode in time while BC is up

[Bigbazz]

damn i have 860 socketed pearl i didnt even bother mentioning it (even using it so far xD). going to test it right now thanks a lot

my only concern is if there is a priority on absorb effects cause with shield neck +IP+ blocks+grp cc if the trinket fails to explode in time while BC is up

Just create a cancelaura macro, if you're in a big AOE pack you will never need to use it though, but you may on bosses or single target when incoming damage is low.

[server22]

Just create a cancelaura macro, if you're in a big AOE pack you will never need to use it though, but you may on bosses or single target when incoming damage is low.

yes u are right , silly me

may i ask what if versa>haste is better overall for maximum dmg output on mythics+ atm (and switching back to haste cap for dung bosses? (in 7.1.5 haste seems to be king due to TC buff and devastator etc)
plus, i find myself doing much and easy/safe dmg on huge aoe pulls when i'm going booming voice talent shout +BC + trinkets with dmg +revenge+artifact+revenge last BC second. is there any better rotation than this? dmg wise