class fantasy = buzzword for more pruning

[Eleccybubb]

blizzard is clueless

what they did to rogues is unforgiveable

I'm having a blast with Outlaw.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

All classes have silence, stun, cc, aoe, etc

There used to be balance without the need to do this

sv hunter doesn't have a stun so your wrong already.

[Al Gorefiend]

Some are miles ahead of others though. Monk definitely was the loser of class fantasy, except maybe Mistweaver.

I think rogue and monk especially need a second pass. Sub and ass don't feel much different at all.

[Lucifuger]

I don't want to jump on the "its the player's faults" band wagon but I do recall at least in Cataclysm that certain classes, like warlocks, did complain about button bloat. I do miss my curses in pve, fel flame was great and I still want it back but I think a part of why they prune abilities now is because they have moving toward a faster playstyle (for an mmorpg). I never did raids in FF14 but in that game my summoner has way more buttons but the combat felt a bit slower paced and when I dabbled in Everquest 2 I had a similar feeling...honestly I sometimes want to return to EQ2 just because of the button bloat in that game.

I'm not necessarily defending the button prune by the way, its just something I accept. There are things about WoW I love, things I'm neutral on and things I dislike pretty adamantly. The button prune is somewhere between neutral and dislike.

[Al Gorefiend]

I don't want to jump on the "its the player's faults" band wagon but I do recall at least in Cataclysm that certain classes, like warlocks, did complain about button bloat. I do miss my curses in pve, fel flame was great and I still want it back but I think a part of why they prune abilities now is because they have moving toward a faster playstyle (for an mmorpg). I never did raids in FF14 but in that game my summoner has way more buttons but the combat felt a bit slower paced and when I dabbled in Everquest 2 I had a similar feeling...honestly I sometimes want to return to EQ2 just because of the button bloat in that game.

I'm not necessarily defending the button prune by the way, its just something I accept. There are things about WoW I love, things I'm neutral on and things I dislike pretty adamantly. The button prune is somewhere between neutral and dislike.

EQ2 had a pretty indefensible button bloat problem. For Berserkers anyways, you had 2 spells that did the same exact thing, tons of passives that make barely a noticeable difference, and just when you think you're out of the woods, they hit you with more and more buttons with multiple trait paths and diety paths. By the time you're level 20 you can have 30+ buttons with little community resources on what is best or worst to take.
I loved it from an RPG perspective, but it made for pretty bad video gaming.

[Mellrod]

Mechanically yes. But OP trying to say Feral and Fury are exactly the same thing apart from Stealth and Shapeshifting is just silly.

I agree with that. Comparing any druid spec to another class in general is rather pointless imo due to the fact balance/feral/guardian/resto have always mimicked another class/combination of classes or archetypes in the game. e.g. Feral & Rogues, Balance & Mages, etc.

A more sound comparison would be comparing the shadow priest's insanity bar to a warrior's rage, or monk's chi/energy to a rogue's energy/combo points. (Although I haven't touched these classes in a while so correct me if i'm wrong.)

[Boogums]

i mean they say legion is about class fantasy when all previous expansions classes felt more unique, speaking from a warrior perspective what did we have in the past, we had rend,overpower which got removed and brought back as talents fucking lol, and also we had stances and disarm and the only class to have a healing debuff on MS back in the day, so this class fantasy crap is just a buzzword for blizzard saying hey we have pruned your abilities yet again and abilities that was baseline for years are now talents, ie rend and overpower, what a fucking joke

Class fantasy =/= unique rotations. It's about how the class looks and feels more than how it is mechanically.

MECHANICALLY you could change the graphics of all mage specs be another soec's and it would play the exact same, but the fantasy for them would change.

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i mean they say legion is about class fantasy when all previous expansions classes felt more unique, speaking from a warrior perspective what did we have in the past, we had rend,overpower which got removed and brought back as talents fucking lol, and also we had stances and disarm and the only class to have a healing debuff on MS back in the day, so this class fantasy crap is just a buzzword for blizzard saying hey we have pruned your abilities yet again and abilities that was baseline for years are now talents, ie rend and overpower, what a fucking joke

Class fantasy =/= unique rotations. It's about how the class looks and feels more than how it is mechanically.

MECHANICALLY you could change the graphics of all mage specs be another soec's and it would play the exact same, but the fantasy for them would change.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I agree with that. Comparing any druid spec to another class in general is rather pointless imo due to the fact balance/feral/guardian/resto have always mimicked another class/combination of classes or archetypes in the game. e.g. Feral & Rogues, Balance & Mages, etc.

A more sound comparison would be comparing the shadow priest's insanity bar to a warrior's rage, or monk's chi/energy to a rogue's energy/combo points. (Although I haven't touched these classes in a while so correct me if i'm wrong.)

a shadow priest insanity doesn't work like rage at all other then you build it up, its actually comply different from any other class.

[Deleted]

class fantasy for warriors is fucking shit, basically its take 20 percent extra damage while doing shit dps in pvp

[Eleccybubb]

class fantasy for warriors is fucking shit, basically its take 20 percent extra damage while doing shit dps in pvp

I'll say it again. You tried to say Fury and Feral were similar barring two things. Sorry but that just pretty much makes any future thing you post completely invalid if you cannot seriously tell the difference between them.

[Rekz]

Let me spell it out for you in plain English. The ability pruning is directly tied to revenue. How you say? Well, Let me explain!

Blizzard, as we all know, is a company and like most companies, they have shareholders. Like most companies with shareholders, there is a high priority in meeting and or exceeding goals set for achieving profit. The bottom line is profit just as an FYI. Everyone still with me? Good.

Companies will do anything and everything to maximize profit margins. In this particular case, Blizzard has identified an untapped market that could and will generate additional revenue growth. What market is this you might ask? Well, it's the console market. Conservatively, Sony has sold over 50 million PS4s since it was introduced (not sure how many xbox units were sold but I doubt there are any near that number). How many subs does Blizzard currently have at the moment? Put the numbers together and you can come up with your own projections.

In order to port WoW over to the console market, one of the necessary steps would be to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of abilities by reducing the overbloated amount of skills required on the pc port which is exactly what they are doing.

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy, it's just good business. WoW is going to the console and you will just have to accept it.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Class fantasy allows them to give Retribution Paladins a Pony, gut their movement speed, and claim everything is fine.

... and then have Assassination which is dominated by Bleed damage.

It's sort of like a mule with a spinning wheel.

[Eleccybubb]

Let me spell it out for you in plain English. The ability pruning is directly tied to revenue. How you say? Well, Let me explain!

Blizzard, as we all know, is a company and like most companies, they have shareholders. Like most companies with shareholders, there is a high priority in meeting and or exceeding goals set for achieving profit. The bottom line is profit just as an FYI. Everyone still with me? Good.

Companies will do anything and everything to maximize profit margins. In this particular case, Blizzard has identified an untapped market that could and will generate additional revenue growth. What market is this you might ask? Well, it's the console market. Conservatively, Sony has sold over 50 million PS4s since it was introduced (not sure how many xbox units were sold but I doubt there are any near that number). How many subs does Blizzard currently have at the moment? Put the numbers together and you can come up with your own projections.

In order to port WoW over to the console market, one of the necessary steps would be to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of abilities by reducing the overbloated amount of skills required on the pc port which is exactly what they are doing.

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy, it's just good business. WoW is going to the console and you will just have to accept it.

You realise the engine isn't built for console yes? It would take a lot of work to do so. It's not just "remove some abilities, throw it on console and job done". Battle.net does not have full support for Diablo 3 so the only choice they have with WoW is make a dedicated version of Battle.net for WoW on console. I mean if you have actual evidence WoW is coming to console I'd love to hear it such as insider info but very unlikely due to the amount of work required. People have been saying since the PS3 era WoW would happen on consoles and that was years ago.

PS. If they actually announce it feel free to PM me and say I was wrong. I'll happily accept that.

[Rekz]

You realise the engine isn't built for console yes? It would take a lot of work to do so. It's not just "remove some abilities, throw it on console and job done". Battle.net does not have full support for Diablo 3 so the only choice they have with WoW is make a dedicated version of Battle.net for WoW on console. I mean if you have actual evidence WoW is coming to console I'd love to hear it such as insider info but very unlikely due to the amount of work required. People have been saying since the PS3 era WoW would happen on consoles and that was years ago.

It's not about providing a time-frame. It's heading to consoles though. You can bookmark this thread and we can bring it up when it hits. You will see that I am correct.

[Eleccybubb]

It's not about providing a time-frame. It's heading to consoles though. You can bookmark this thread and we can bring it up when it hits. You will see that I am correct.

Like I said wave out the "I told you so" flags when it does happen. I'm happy to admit I was wrong when they announce it. But after around 7-8 years of people saying it I extremely doubt it will happen. Also I never mentioned a time frame other than how long people have been saying "WoW should go to consoles". I'm saying for a game like WoW it takes a lot of effort to put it on console as it was firstly not built for it and secondly would have to have a console version of Battle.net to support it. Not to mention if they do current systems making sure there are done deals with Microsoft and Sony of course.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

class fantasy for warriors is fucking shit, basically its take 20 percent extra damage while doing shit dps in pvp

is that all you got? your arguments have been destroyed so your just yelling that 20% more damage sucks?

- - - Updated - - -

Let me spell it out for you in plain English. The ability pruning is directly tied to revenue. How you say? Well, Let me explain!

Blizzard, as we all know, is a company and like most companies, they have shareholders. Like most companies with shareholders, there is a high priority in meeting and or exceeding goals set for achieving profit. The bottom line is profit just as an FYI. Everyone still with me? Good.

Companies will do anything and everything to maximize profit margins. In this particular case, Blizzard has identified an untapped market that could and will generate additional revenue growth. What market is this you might ask? Well, it's the console market. Conservatively, Sony has sold over 50 million PS4s since it was introduced (not sure how many xbox units were sold but I doubt there are any near that number). How many subs does Blizzard currently have at the moment? Put the numbers together and you can come up with your own projections.

In order to port WoW over to the console market, one of the necessary steps would be to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of abilities by reducing the overbloated amount of skills required on the pc port which is exactly what they are doing.

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy, it's just good business. WoW is going to the console and you will just have to accept it.

ya wow is never going to consoles its madness to even think about it no matter how much they prune it will never fit to a control button scheme get over your conspiracy theory, it will not happen.

[Flurryfang]

blizzard is clueless

what they did to rogues is unforgiveable

Assa is the best it has pretty much ever been. More choice and chance to shine was the gift of Legion.

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I think Fantasy is pretty important and when Blizzard fail with this fantasy, the games suffer. Blizzard tried to do good class fantasy with Legion, but they seem to forget that after the first week of making the game. So few classes have a clear fantasy, so it is not up to date in anyway

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Assa is the best it has pretty much ever been. More choice and chance to shine was the gift of Legion.

i rather liked assa in cata for some reason never really liked it as much going back after words not that i can really tell why.

[Shammyrock]

I actually enjoy the class fantasy thing, some of the specs were virtually identical anyhow.

[omeomorfismo]

blizzard is clueless

what they did to rogues is unforgiveable

yup, we had never a better state than legion, this will be bery unforgivenable XD