Exorsus and their statement.

[bubbadubba]

That would make for some utterly terrible viewing , ooook so now on to wipe 291 of Mythic Gul'dan ..

Personally I think blizzard handles it exactly like they should because if they promoted it really it would only push high end raiding in to a even more unhealthy state.

I agree it would be terrible viewing.

I don't agree blizzard is handling it how they should. They could easily promote the run a lot better then they do to create more interest in following it. I am not saying much but put an actual leaderboard up or announce when people get a new boss down. Hell if a boss was stupid challenging, taunt the guilds about it.

[Deleted]

What I meant by relevant was recruiting for the top end. People willing to raid 6 or 7 days a week. Raiding upwards of 10+ hours a day. People who are willing to level 6 or 7 alts for split raids. People who possess the skill to play all of those classes very well. The number of players who have all of the qualities has been dwindling over time. There may be people have a few of those qualities, but to raid at the top end, you need them all. I'd be surprised if Exorsus or other guilds at the top end find more than two or three recruits every couple months with these qualities.

You are right. Personally I don't think that's a problem Blizzard should be solving though.

[syllabic]

You are right. Personally I don't think that's a problem Blizzard should be solving though.

Yeah like I should feel sorry for them that nobody wants to play 70+ hours a week just to stay on the bleeding edge of progression?

It's a video game, it's supposed to be a fun hobby. Nobody is forced to go balls out and play constantly until all the hardest content is dead. Weren't people complaining that stuff dies too fast?

I'm glad blizzard doesn't encourage spending 70+ hours a week playing wow. It's super unhealthy.

[unfilteredJW]

Man, I never get tired of cheaters blaming the game rather than their weak selves.

[Deleted]

Yeah like I should feel sorry for them that nobody wants to play 70+ hours a week just to stay on the bleeding edge of progression?

It's a video game, it's supposed to be a fun hobby. Nobody is forced to go balls out and play constantly until all the hardest content is dead. Weren't people complaining that stuff dies too fast?

I'm glad blizzard doesn't encourage spending 70+ hours a week playing wow. It's super unhealthy.

Why? If others risk their health and hence pay a price to be top others should do the same if they want top. Nothing wrong here.

[Armourboy]

Or perhaps applying some critical reasoning makes identifying possible exploits a fairly easy task. I mean, I can list a bunch of examples of bugs I predicted as being exploits which were fixed afterwards... but you've already stated you're not interested in that.



I'm sorry, but nothing in the saronite bomb example should have lead anyone to believe it was somehow an intended feature of the fight at the time. That was a flimsy excuse used to try and avoid the ban in that case, and is a flimsy excuse still used by people trying to justify cheating through exploiting a bug.

"I swear officer, I didn't think taking duffel bags worth of money from a pallet I found in the middle of the street was stealing. I thought it was just a feature of my bank to leave heaps of cash unattended like that!"

Give me a break.

Well and lets be honest, on this latest one pretty much every guild that has come out has basically said " we knew it was breaking the fight but we decided to do it anyways ". None of these guilds had an issue identifying if it was cheating/exploiting, the only issue they had was if it was worth getting in trouble over.

These guys do these type of fights in these type of situations to know when something changes. All of them know that on previous attempts if the boss is doing things at a constant pace, you do something and the boss never does it again, then you have broken the encounter. You didn't get creative with the mechanics, you flat out broke them. I can't ever remember a time where Blizzard has been ok with you breaking a boss fight to get a kill.

Using Blackhand as an example, the Monk jumping off and popping back was using mechanics that the class had. The boss kept doing the mechanic, but you could keep bypassing it. However if the Monk tank failed to execute this mechanic properly then he was good and dead. On the flip side, if the Monk had done it and then the boss never did the mechanic again for the rest of the fight, whether he jumped off or not, meant that it had been broken.

Breaking the fight isn't the problem, it's going to happen from time to time when you are pushing content at that level. What is a problem is once you discover that, using it to your advantage. I'm really not sure why the distinction is hard for some to understand.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? If others risk their health and hence pay a price to be top others should do the same if they want top. Nothing wrong here.

There is nothing wrong with it per say, but something that unhealthy probably shouldn't be encouraged by Blizzard either.

[syllabic]

Why? If others risk their health and hence pay a price to be top others should do the same if they want top. Nothing wrong here.

They can if they want but don't expect anyone else to compensate you or care that you're doing it.

And don't be surprised when you get very few takers willing to do that sort of stuff for mediocre rewards. If you want to cry that raiding is dead because people don't want to raid 70 hours a week, maybe you should reevaluate whether you and your guild takes it too far and not that everyone else is slacking.

The only reason it's "competitive" is because these guilds want it to be competitive and work to out do each other. The vast majority of people don't give a shit. The onus is on them to de-escalate the competition and not for everyone else to suddenly change their entire lives around or to congratulate them for neglecting their whole lives in order to get some e-peen points.

[Darkulous]

I wish there was a way to organize a healthy, fair, competitive and spectator friendly World First Race. I don't think it's possible so it's not worth trying. Maybe if the players showed they can do it themselves first, Blizzard might adopt it. Esports first began from community organized events.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

They believe they're entitled to do whatever they want and not get shit for it.

[huehuehue]

ban should be longer

[primalmatter]

Well its ether that or top tier raiding dies out. Its always been a small percent of players who did it and over time it gets smaller. So these guilds need to ether branch out or accept the fact its going to end.

Exorsus's statement boils down to two things tho.

1) Them blaming blizzard for everything (Even exploiting)

2) Them not wanting to put in the work to create new blood.

Like why the fuck should blizzard pay them for a dam thing, the amount of people who even give a fuck about WF is small. Even more so when they have openly admitted they will cheat to get ahead.

Nah top end is fine just trying to explain why recruitment can't ever work that way even if it would help everyone.

These guys exploited the system and got caught they deserve everything they got.

[Deavane]

You are right. Personally I don't think that's a problem Blizzard should be solving though.

Well they aren't looking for people to feel bad for them. They're suggesting that Blizzard giving the race publicity might somehow increase it's value, drawing in new players whom fit the category of player I described. I personally don't think it would be popular, even with support from Blizzard. The only interesting part is strategy development and how you kill the boss. That information is behind locked doors however, so I don't see myself watching them for entertainment value. I do care who wins the race. It's interesting to see how Method has overcome the major separation that resulted in Serenity. Lots of logistics went into all of that.

[Edorien]

they are russians, and russians are always innocent and right. its in genetic to be in denial. and just they compared exploits to using game mechanics

To be fair back in WOTLK Exodus bitched about getting banned in more or less the same way for exploiting the game mechanics on Yogg+0. And they were an all around american guild.

You actually couldn't miss the fact that they were a US guild because their whine was full of "America Fuck Yeah" and "In the Mountains... in the American Mountains Yeah"

That was... entertaining.

So far on my list Exorsus is only n°2 after Exodus. They'd have to write "Mother Russia yeah" to make it to rank 1.

[Deleted]

Also what's so important about world 1st these days in a game where players are geared casino style.

[Armourboy]

Well they aren't looking for people to feel bad for them. They're suggesting that Blizzard giving the race publicity might somehow increase it's value, drawing in new players whom fit the category of player I described. I personally don't think it would be popular, even with support from Blizzard. The only interesting part is strategy development and how you kill the boss. That information is behind locked doors however, so I don't see myself watching them for entertainment value. I do care who wins the race. It's interesting to see how Method has overcome the major separation that resulted in Serenity. Lots of logistics went into all of that.

Sure they are, that entire post he made was nothing but " woe is me " from beginning to end outside of the bit on legendaries where he had an actual argument. Frankly, Blizzard doing more than they already do for such a small percentage of the population would be stupid. Blizzard stands to gain nothing from it, while putting out all of the backing. They wouldn't even get free exposure on streaming sites due to the nature of the race, so if your Blizzard you are far better off using any of those dollars and time on something that might.

Basically they are looking to Blizzard to prop up a style of play that is quickly becoming extinct. TBH the game would probably be better off if guilds stopped playing that way and you had a much more natural style of world first.

[Draahl]

All guilds would just cheat on the streaming part as well, use someone with an odd camera angle or something. Most of the top 20 guilds exploit, it has always been like this. It sucks and Blizzard is more or less powerless unless they activly watch them all.

[Deavane]

Sure they are, that entire post he made was nothing but " woe is me " from beginning to end outside of the bit on legendaries where he had an actual argument. Frankly, Blizzard doing more than they already do for such a small percentage of the population would be stupid. Blizzard stands to gain nothing from it, while putting out all of the backing. They wouldn't even get free exposure on streaming sites due to the nature of the race, so if your Blizzard you are far better off using any of those dollars and time on something that might.

Basically they are looking to Blizzard to prop up a style of play that is quickly becoming extinct. TBH the game would probably be better off if guilds stopped playing that way and you had a much more natural style of world first.

If a race exist, if the ability to be the best in the world exist, people will do the maximum to get there, assuming the resources exist to get there. Natural world first would come a playstyle where Blizzard gave guilds a limited number of hours or attempts to do each fight. That would create an equal environment where each guild that wished to compete could do the maximum that Blizzard allowed and we would truly see who the best is.

Even in that environment though, there is no way that these guilds would allow their strategies to become public in any means. It just couldn't happen.

[Deleted]

They tried to limit attempts in WotlK (Algalon / LK) and poeple just used an army of alts to learn the mechanics and burn thought attempts. Outside of accountwide (and account shareing says helo) lockout , you can't realy limit the amount of time spent on in M during the world first race. Personaly i find it kinda bullshit as even exorsus themselves admit , it's not down to skill , it's who can put in 14+ hr raid days the longest.

Class stacking, account sharing, split runs , 14+ Hr raid days... very little to killing a M boss comes down to skill. You just brute force the thing down, pull after pull you figure out what works and it'll eventualy go down. I remember archimonde world first took like... 550ish pulls to kill. Blackhand took like 700... and this was done wthin a week ffs. Thats not a demonstration of skill it's an endurance check... to quote Yahtzee "put your hand on a stove for 14 hours and you'll probably stop feeling the pain, sure, but that's because most of your hand burned off by that point"

Here's a thought.... server wide limited attempts?.... like you get a reasonable 250-500 pulls server wide of a M boss, and once those wipes are done, it's despawned for the week. I'd just love to see the M race put more emphasis on skill.

M archimonde was 464 wipes for method, Blackhand was 325ish, no idea where you get 550 and 700ish espcialy 700 for BH that more then double then what it actully took them to kill it.

And server wide attemps atleast your amount would be to little escpilay for big servers, if was more around 2000 atleats maybe but then id still say only until top 3 or 5kills of the endboss are done worldwide then the reset after its lifted.

[Armourboy]

If a race exist, if the ability to be the best in the world exist, people will do the maximum to get there, assuming the resources exist to get there. Natural world first would come a playstyle where Blizzard gave guilds a limited number of hours or attempts to do each fight. That would create an equal environment where each guild that wished to compete could do the maximum that Blizzard allowed and we would truly see who the best is.

Even in that environment though, there is no way that these guilds would allow their strategies to become public in any means. It just couldn't happen.

And there in lies the problem. The only reason for Blizzard to do it is if they have something to gain from it, mainly free publicity. I look at it like this, if you want to make RL cash from something like this then you are going to need to change how you do a few things so that the company giving you the money feels like its worth the investment. Basically they want Blizzard to finance their crazy play style, but offer nothing in return. That's the definition of a bad investment lol.

[Normie]

That would make for some utterly terrible viewing , ooook so now on to wipe 291 of Mythic Gul'dan ..

It would be like watching Madison Bumgarner is pitching against high school freshmen. Pretty cool at first, then you realize it's the same thing forever.