Huge Feral Nerfs

[Lycanoth]

I did not miss the point. I got the point. Your point still doesn't address the fact that Blizzard clearly intended to nerf the ability in PVE and PVP. If they didn't they would have just adjusted one or the other, which they are more than capable of doing.

You might completely disagree with them and think they are batshit crazy, but the fact remains, they chose to nerf it in both intentionally. It was not, I repeat, it was not a pvp change that affected PVE.

I never debated any of your other points, so stop defending those.

Unless you have a blue post saying they wanted to nerf it for both PvE and PvP I am going to continue to argue my point. Which is the way it was nerfed and how clearly shows it was intended way more for PvP than it was for PvE. The fact you keep bring up "blizzard has the ability" is irrelevant because a lot of nerfs classes have gotten since the launch of this expansion screamed "Lazily done" from the get go.

Blizzard having the ability to nerf based on specific content is not up for debate here. Things being done in a lazy way or little to no thought process behind it is.

If you are going to ask for me to explain something just to throw it aside then do not ask at all.

[Hobbes0773]

Unless you have a blue post saying they wanted to nerf it for both PvE and PvP I am going to continue to argue my point. Which is the way it was nerfed and how clearly shows it was intended way more for PvP than it was for PvE. The fact you keep bring up "blizzard has the ability" is irrelevant because a lot of nerfs classes have gotten since the launch of this expansion screamed "Lazily done" from the get go.

Blizzard having the ability to nerf based on specific content is not up for debate here. Things being done in a lazy way or little to no thought process behind it is.

If you are going to ask for me to explain something just to throw it aside then do not ask at all.

Argue it all you want. It is an awful point and you have no evidence for it. Your entire "argument" boils down to "I think the change is stupid and makes no sense to me so clearly they didn't mean to nerf PVE too."

If you are going to ask for me to explain something just to throw it aside then do not ask at all.

I didn't ask you to explain it, I asked you to provide evidence. You made a claim and it was unfounded. In fact, there is good evidence to support the opposite of what you claim.

Things being done in a lazy way or little to no thought process behind it is.

You know that for this to be acceptable the nerf to only pvp would have to be more difficult to implement, which it is not. If your new argument is blizzard is lazy (which I preemptively said was not true) then that fails too because changing a coefficient is a breeze.

You have nothing to support your claim except your feelings. And that is not going to fly here. Blizzard clearly wanted to nerf the ability in PVE and PVP, since if they wanted to nerf only one it would be just as easy to do so. You have nothing to support your claim so I felt compelled to make sure anyone else reading your false information wouldn't feel inclined to spread it outside of this forum.

That is all I have to say on the discussion, so let's get back to something more constructive instead of your whines about objectively false claims.

[Lycanoth]

Which is better than the "They have the ability to nerf it for specific content so you are clearly wrong." You have nothing to support your claim either so we can go back and forth over this forever.

I wouldn't call concerns over a nerf that does absolutely nothing to address the big issue here a whine. Maybe instead of focusing so much on a point I made 8 post back you would have got it already.

If all you want to do is pay attention to 50% of my post then by all means yes lets move onto something else because things are going to go no where.

You know that for this to be acceptable the nerf to only pvp would have to be more difficult to implement, which it is not. If your new argument is blizzard is lazy (which I preemptively said was not true) then that fails too because changing a coefficient is a breeze.

You have nothing to support your claim except your feelings. And that is not going to fly here. Blizzard clearly wanted to nerf the ability in PVE and PVP, since if they wanted to nerf only one it would be just as easy to do so. You have nothing to support your claim so I felt compelled to make sure anyone else reading your false information wouldn't feel inclined to spread it outside of this forum.

That is all I have to say on the discussion, so let's get back to something more constructive instead of your whines about objectively false claims.

The gist of the argument you are using here boils down to "Blizzard wanted to nerf it because reasons". Get out of here with that trash right now.

Whether it is pvp, pve or simply a nerf to get people to use other talents (which blizzard stated a VERY large point of 7.1.5 was) it does absolutely nothing to resolve that issue because the other 2 choices are just bad.

Renewal is pretty self explanatory on why it will never be used over the other 2 choices while Wild Charge is very situational to begin with. I mean they could nerf Displacer Beast into oblivion which best case scenario everyone would just go Wild Charge because Renewal has a very rare reason to be picked up outside of PvP and the fact it competes with mobility is the nail in the coffin.

Nerfing a talent to attempt to get one terribly placed talent and a very situational talent to see more play is the wrong way to go about this. It is just as bad as the change to Elune's Guidance which is not going to suddenly get more people to use it over Jagged Wounds.

Blizzard also did state they are looking into making some talents for some classes/specs baseline which would make sense if they ended up making displacer beast baseline along with JW but there really isn't enough evidence to assume that yet.

[Hobbes0773]

Which is better than the "They have the ability to nerf it for specific content so you are clearly wrong." You have nothing to support your claim either so we can go back and forth over this forever.

That isn't how the burden of proof works. And I wasn't making a claim I was refuting yours. We can go back and forth forever, but that is only because you can argue without backing up a claim. It is clear as day man. If you choose not to accept it, that is on you.

[Lycanoth]

Unless you can pull a blue post out of no where that explains the reasoning behind the nerfs then you reliably can not "refute" anything. At this point with how vague the information we get until we get official patch notes "even sometimes that isn't enough" it is a matter of opinion regardless of what you believe.

If you would like to voice your opinion on why you think this nerf was needed and how it is going to influence people picking the other 2 talents then I am all ears.

[Zanzha]

Does any of this really matter ? Who cares why nerfed displacer, all that matters is that it's happening.

Displacer honestly was pretty damn strong and it's not really surprising.

All the other shit, 5% crit w/e everyone's getting hit, OOC change, not really a nerf, not really a buff, it's just that, a change.

[Lycanoth]

Displacer honestly was pretty damn strong and it's not really surprising.

Too strong or not they need to make the other 2 talents worth taking. Nerfing Displacer will never fix that.

[Hobbes0773]

christ you are persistent. Displacer needed a nerf. Get over it and move on.

[Lycanoth]

christ you are persistent. Displacer needed a nerf. Get over it and move on.

Probably the most constructive post you have made in this thread yet.

That would be like me telling you to get over ferals current state and move on. You are not adding to the thread in any meaningful way at all.

This is a public forum. If you have issues with people giving their opinion to the point you derail the thread then why even post?

[Hobbes0773]

then why even post?

The irony is palpable.

[Lycanoth]

So you are trolling then. Good to know.

[Hobbes0773]

Not trolling. Just tired of pointing out clear logic and watching it get straight ass ignored. I'll be the bigger person though and let this conversation die. At this point it is debating a greased pig and not helping anyone. The ability was nerfed for PVE and PVP and it was intended to be that way. If they didn't intend for it, they could have easily just picked PVP and nerfed it only there. Your statement makes no goddamn sense in that context and is clearly you hating the nerf and not wanting to admit that it was OP.

End of discussion. Get your last word in and then we will both move the hell on.

[Lycanoth]

You weren't being ignored you simply chose to see it that way. You are trying to use that bad logic on a change that is part of an incomplete PTR patch which I also pointed out in multiple post that you still continue to ignore.

First of all NEITHER of us know exactly what is going on with that nerf so stop trying to act like you do. The fact that you are still going on about the PvP vs PvE point shows you never had any real intention on going forward with this conversation.

Once again for all you know they could be planning to make Displacer Beast baseline which would definitely need to see a couple of nerfs if that is the case.

[Lucrece]

christ you are persistent. Displacer needed a nerf. Get over it and move on.

Oh, shut up.

Displace was a blink, without the stunbreak, on double the cooldown and not baseline but a talent instead.

It has existed for the past xpac without any issues whatsoever. Suddenly now it deserves a nerf?

[Zanzha]

Displace was a blink, without the stunbreak, on double the cooldown and not baseline but a talent instead.

It has existed for the past xpac without any issues whatsoever. Suddenly now it deserves a nerf?

You sound pretty upset about what is a relatively minor nerf which is just going to result in feral charge sometimes being the correct choice when you need to cover shorter distances more frequently.

Also to the guy saying they're prepping it to be made baseline, just no.

[Hobbes0773]

You sound pretty upset about what is a relatively minor nerf which is just going to result in feral charge sometimes being the correct choice when you need to cover shorter distances more frequently.

Also to the guy saying they're prepping it to be made baseline, just no.

Pretty much this. Even if you have DB completely removed wild charge is still a great talent for that tier. We will be just fine.

[Lycanoth]

You sound pretty upset about what is a relatively minor nerf which is just going to result in feral charge sometimes being the correct choice when you need to cover shorter distances more frequently.

Also to the guy saying they're prepping it to be made baseline, just no.

Except it won't. Wild Charge already has a pretty specific situation that it will be better than Displacer Beast which was present before this nerf. Nothing changes in that regard whatsoever. I am excluding PvP here because there is actually reasons to use the other 2 talents in that tier there.

On top of that Skull Bash with Balance Affinity does the exact same shit as Wild Charge with a shorter range while also the same CD. The only time this is bad to use as mobility is if you are on interrupt duty and cause a wipe.

Lets just look at the talents in that tier.

Renewal by itself is fine I used it quite a lot while leveling my Feral because the extra mobility wasn't really important while the survivability was. The big problem with this talent is that it is competing with 2 mobility talents that have a lot more use throughout 95% of the encounters in this game. This talent will only really be good if a mechanic requires you to be out of range of the healers for awhile with either ticking damage or back to back frontal burst.

Displacer Beast has always been the talent you take for controlled movement that Wild Charge lacks. A ton of mechanics in EN, ToV and even a few 5 mans make this talent pretty damn good for feral. Combo that with Balance Affinity and Skull bash and you pretty much get a baseline Wild Charge.

Wild Charge is a great talent but Balance Affinity pretty much sealed its fate for a lot of situations it would have been useful over Displacer Beast.

This is the problem. Blizzard has this idea that if they lower/increase numbers on one talent it will make another suddenly more favorable, while this can work for a lot of talents in the game it will not work here on a tier that already has problems. 7.1.5 is supposed to be a patch that fixes this and from what we have seen so far is a rather incomplete set of changes so for us to assume this is a flat nerf, minor nerf or direct nerf for X and Y content isn't really going to end well in a discussion. At this point we can only really wait for the next PTR build where things will be more clear.

[Eace]

Oh, shut up.

Displace was a blink, without the stunbreak, on double the cooldown and not baseline but a talent instead.

It has existed for the past xpac without any issues whatsoever. Suddenly now it deserves a nerf?

DB also has a Speed increase tagged into it, not to mention the druid toolkit is already very high in mobility. It is a nerf, sure, but it's not the end of the world.

However, I understood this isn't just a PvP nerf, am I right? Don't really see a reason to nerf it in PvE, except that it's miles better than the other options on the row. Can't imagine why they can't just bring the other two options up to par. Nevertheless, not a change I couldn't live with.

[Hobbes0773]

DB also has a Speed increase tagged into it, not to mention the druid toolkit is already very high in mobility. It is a nerf, sure, but it's not the end of the world.

However, I understood this isn't just a PvP nerf, am I right? Don't really see a reason to nerf it in PvE, except that it's miles better than the other options on the row. Can't imagine why they can't just bring the other two options up to par. Nevertheless, not a change I couldn't live with.

Correct. The reason for the nerf is exactly that: it is miles ahead of the other two in many situations. Despite what a vocal minority here say (one person) this nerf is a bit warranted. Wild Charge is not actually that far behind DB (and WC is taken by many ferals as a default still due to its flexibility and low CD/high skillcap usage) and a tiny nerf to DB puts everything back in order. WC and DB are both used, with preference being the deciding factor, while Renewal stays situational.

Nevertheless, not a change I couldn't live with.

this is the key here. They could entirely remove DB and we would still be fine. The perceived outrage is way overblown here.

[Lycanoth]

Correct. The reason for the nerf is exactly that: it is miles ahead of the other two in many situations. Despite what a vocal minority here say (one person) this nerf is a bit warranted. Wild Charge is not actually that far behind DB (and WC is taken by many ferals as a default still due to its flexibility and low CD/high skillcap usage) and a tiny nerf to DB puts everything back in order. WC and DB are both used, with preference being the deciding factor, while Renewal stays situational.

There is some very heavy contradiction in what is being said here. It is quite funny that "preference" is coming up once again as justification for changes. lol

this is the key here. They could entirely remove DB and we would still be fine. The perceived outrage is way overblown here.

Not a single person is sitting here saying the spec is dead or threatening to reroll over this change. Why the hell is this even coming up to begin with? To talk about overblown here it is.