Lore Character "Power Level" Ranking list

[xso111]

i'm so curious why are the titan keepers ranked so high in most lists..... i mean Tyr is the keeper's strongest and yet he struggled to beat Galakrond, he's struggled about as hard as the pre-empowered Aspects against Galakrond, and still the Keepers are above an empowered Aspects on most lists? seriously?.

it took the keepers 2 of their strongest members Odyn and Tyr just to beat Ragnaros..... and yet in people's list EL and Keepers are on the same tier? wtf?...... the Titans despite already having the titan keepers, still created the Aspects and gave them the job of preventing the Old God's plan from coming into fruition..... so that means the titans didn't deem the keepers as powerful enough to foil the hour of twilight.....

i mean just look at the magnitudes of their jobs..... Keepers = Jailors of Yogg.... Aspects = foiling all 4 OG's plan of escaping.

[Wildmoon]

Keepers's power level has been inconsistent. They were not viewed to be that poerful by community before the chronicle.

[Qualia]

i'm so curious why are the titan keepers ranked so high in most lists..... i mean Tyr is the keeper's strongest and yet he struggled to beat Galakrond, he's struggled about as hard as the pre-empowered Aspects against Galakrond, and still the Keepers are above an empowered Aspects on most lists? seriously?.

it took the keepers 2 of their strongest members Odyn and Tyr just to beat Ragnaros..... and yet in people's list EL and Keepers are on the same tier? wtf?...... the Titans despite already having the titan keepers, still created the Aspects and gave them the job of preventing the Old God's plan from coming into fruition..... so that means the titans didn't deem the keepers as powerful enough to foil the hour of twilight.....

i mean just look at the magnitudes of their jobs..... Keepers = Jailors of Yogg.... Aspects = foiling all 4 OG's plan of escaping.

As Wildmoon stated above, Keepers' power level has been rather inconsistent. They didn't really seem all that powerful before Chronicle (mainly because we have pretty limited information about how powerful they were), if we assume that Brann was wrong ("It is said that the power of Thorim has been used only once... and that it turned an entire continent to dust") - and he probably was. All in all, I wouldn't put the Keepers above or below the Aspects, they are probably more or less the same level.

Still, Tyr never really struggled against Galakrond. I believe this is similar to the misunderstanding that Illidan was weaker than Arthas the Death Knight in TFT when he (Illidan) in fact had the upperhand most of the fight and Arthas only got two (albeit, one of them being the most important one) strikes in when Illidan was being careless. To elaborate: Tyr never used any magic in his final fight against Galakrond (bar the one that changed his size), just he and his hammer bashing Galakrond all over. The fight didn't seem even either: Tyr took no significant damage (at least, none was described), while grabbed and battered the proto drake to various extend of effects, from doing no damage (probably the harder part, i.e: the blow to the skull) to some damage (i.e: the ones to below or the sides of the jaw, or the punch inside the throat). He only lost in the last moment because something unexpected happened: when the hammer was knocked off, it also knocked his recording relic off as well. And Tyr decided, rather stupidly, to put his hand next to Galakrond's mouth trying to retrieve his little camcorder. Unsurprisingly, the proto drake bite down and Tyr lost his fight there, but that wasn't because he was weaker - it was just his mistake.

Additionally, the Titans didn't empower the Aspects because they deemed the Keepers not powerful enough to foil the hour of twilight. They empowered the Aspects because the Keepers asked them to, and because the Keepers (except Tyr) - over time, after their wars with the Elemental Lords and the Old Gods, plus the shaping process of Azeroth - had grown indifferent to the world. In other words, the Pantheon saw that their followers had less motivation to do their jobs, so they empowered new followers to do it as per request of the old ones. Their jobs - Keepers and Aspects - were the same, actually. The Keepers were also tasked with safeguarding all Old Gods' prisons and Azeroth (not just Yogg and not just Old Gods-related matters only), which was passed to the Aspects & dragons after the ceremony.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah, no. There's NO way we're less powerful than the demi-gods/khadgar. We wielding weapons FAR beyond anyones might. We can beat up a titan keeper without help, destroy a nightmarish god with LITTLE help (Ysera was help..but let's face it, she just put us asleep), and gul'dan..well...we likely fucked him up while khadgar was off doing his power stuff. Illidan stole my kill, that mary sue mother fucker.

But still, we're beyond those tier 5 beings, not to mention that tier 4 beings consist of garrosh, gul'dan, and the LK?!

We can eat a bunch of garrosh's, and LKs for breakfest man. What the hell are you saying? Also, dragon aspects above us? Yah, maybe if you were from cata maybe, but no. No, even with their powers, we could take em on. I mean, if the titan keepers gave the aspects their powers and shit like that, and if we can beat up odyn, and that was from the SECOND raid, then come at me aspects. Also, dont we wielding planet busting weapons/legendaries now?

Tier 2 archimonde and KJ, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! What kind of world do you even..? We took down archimonde with little help from the 3 WoD chars no one cares about, we're FUCKING Kil'jaedens shit up in legion, and we're already ass fucking the beings that gave deathwing his might. Also, as of NOW, azshara might be a fuck up enemy to go up against, but IF blizzard does go the route of us fighting sargeras head on, then azshara will be nothing towards us. But still..she's likely tier 2, to tier 3.

Also, IDC what you say about the 20/25 peeps killing each boss and all, cause, well, let's face it, WE STILL KILLED THEM! -___- Jesus.

Also, we OVERPOWER some of these peeps that are stated to be "Above us" already.

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i'm so curious why are the titan keepers ranked so high in most lists..... i mean Tyr is the keeper's strongest and yet he struggled to beat Galakrond, he's struggled about as hard as the pre-empowered Aspects against Galakrond, and still the Keepers are above an empowered Aspects on most lists? seriously?.

it took the keepers 2 of their strongest members Odyn and Tyr just to beat Ragnaros..... and yet in people's list EL and Keepers are on the same tier? wtf?...... the Titans despite already having the titan keepers, still created the Aspects and gave them the job of preventing the Old God's plan from coming into fruition..... so that means the titans didn't deem the keepers as powerful enough to foil the hour of twilight.....

i mean just look at the magnitudes of their jobs..... Keepers = Jailors of Yogg.... Aspects = foiling all 4 OG's plan of escaping.

Idk, but either odyn has been hitting the gym ever since he defeated ragnaros, that or we were just too buffed up while fighting rag. Idk which one it was, but...I could've sworn that I 2 shot him with my artifact like 1 day ago.

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From Chronicles, the lastest books and from the events we see in game, the list would go as follow:

T1 - Void Lords
T2 - Sargeras, Pantheon
T3 - Old Gods (full power)
T4 - Azshara, Deathwing, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden,
T5 - Lich King, Lei Shen (pre-resurrection)
T6 -Titan Keepers, Aspects, Elemental Lords, Wild Gods
T7 - Notable NPCs (Khadgar, Malfurion, Gul'dan etc.),
T8 - Players

Tier "They're gonna buff me to insane level of power contraditting the lore so far" - Illidan
Tier "I'm not even canon anymore lol" - Me'dan

How can you put the players below all of these jokers? Some of these guys you're putting above are either killed, are going to get killed, surpassed, or will be surpassed. Are you kidding me?

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Mannoroth conquered so many worlds, we gonna hold 3 failures against him? Leave Mannoroth alone!!!! :'(

Destroying/Conquering worlds isn't really a feat anymore that's...uhh...shocking. 3 lvl 100 DKs were able to MURDER a mo'arg capable of destroying entire worlds, and that was when HE had the Maw of the damned.

Now, we buffed it, we've gained LEGENDARIES, and we're more powerful ourselves, so....

-___-

[Qualia]

Also, IDC what you say about the 20/25 peeps killing each boss and all, cause, well, let's face it, WE STILL KILLED THEM! -___- Jesus.

Also, we OVERPOWER some of these peeps that are stated to be "Above us" already.

So... are you counting a group of, lore-wise, unknown number - could be from a few to hundreds / thousands of soldiers, generals, and champions as one entity? Because that's what defeated "some of these peeps that are stated to be above us", not a single lone player character. When it comes to the player's strength, gameplay stuffs are usually much different from lore.

[TheFirstOnes]

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place.
- VL were envious of the Titans power to freely move an act in the physical universe, not their strength
- Titans didn't even know Void Lords existed, they only knew void magic was present in the universe
- Sargeras only encountered a corrupted world soul, and the simple revelation of what it would have done drove him into despair and ultimately the belief that destroying the universe was a better fate
- Titan Keepers didn't beat the Old God by themselves. They were aided by the Titans, and had an army, and still risked a loss at some point

Finally, destroying a planet is not necessarily a measure for strength. Ner'zhul destroyed Draenor using some powerful artifacts, Deatwhing would have been able to destroy Azeroth surface with his cataclysm. Yet, you wouldn't put them in the same league of Sargeras, won't you?

That's because..they're not?

1. The titan keepers are only 1/1000ths a titans might, they gave each of their powers to the aspects, deathwing grew evil, gained a BIT of the OGs power, slept for a few years, gained the aspects powers by doing some evil plan, got banned from his own house, slept underneath the waters, rose up, and WHA-BAM!


Meanwhile, the titans died towards sargeras' might, archimonde alone is stated to destroy entire worlds across the infinity of universes, and he's a FLEA towards sargeras' might, goku is getting a run for is money, beerus is getting pissed cause someone is doing a better job at being a God of destruction than he is, zeno is giving the evil grin towards beerus, and MR POPO IS RECONSIDERING THE PECKING ORDER!

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So... are you counting a group of, lore-wise, unknown number - could be from a few to hundreds / thousands of soldiers, generals, and champions as one entity? Because that's what defeated "some of these peeps that are stated to be "Above us" already", not a single lone player character.

There are ONLY 36 artifacts, lore wise there should be NO ONE else in each raid defeating each boss other than the 36 lore peeps of each spec, there are ONLY 36 guys lore wise capable of being champion, and THAT'S IT!

I don't expect seeing khadgar slapping the shit out of the guy with the ashbringer. Not in this universe, not in any. Infact, there might not be another universe, and why is that? CAUSE SARGERAS MUST'VE BLOWN IT UP!

[Qualia]

There are ONLY 36 artifacts, lore wise there should be NO ONE else in each raid defeating each boss other than the 36 lore peeps of each spec, there are ONLY 36 guys lore wise capable of being champion, and THAT'S IT!

I don't expect seeing khadgar slapping the shit out of the guy with the ashbringer. Not in this universe, not in any. Infact, there might not be another universe, and why is that? CAUSE SARGERAS MUST'VE BLOWN IT UP!

The army doesn't consist of just maximum 36 champions, though. That's why I put soldiers and generals there. They might not be as weak as fodder, they might be almost as strong as us. Still, lore-wise, they do play a part in the defeat of the bosses we faced.

I wouldn't really count out the involvement of important NPCs either. For example, last I checked, we cleared Naxx without any help of any character. Still, lore-wise, as seen in the comic, it was someone else (Bolvar? Tirion? Darion? someone else? can't remember) that led a group to do that. Thus, for all we know, maybe in lore, the NPCs actually did and would do most of the works instead of just staying around helping with minor tasks.

[TheFirstOnes]

The army doesn't consist of just maximum 36 champions, though. That's why I put soldiers and generals there. They might not be as weak as fodder, they might be almost as strong as us. Still, lore-wise, they do play a part in the defeat of the bosses we faced.

I wouldn't really count out the involvement of important NPCs either. For example, last I checked, we cleared Naxx without any help of any character. Still, lore-wise, as seen in the comic, it was someone else (Bolvar? Tirion? Darion? someone else? can't remember) that led a group to do that. Thus, for all we know, maybe in lore, the NPCs actually did and would do most of the works instead of just staying around helping with minor tasks.

Wait a sec. Wasn't the comic also the thing that created me'dan.

Yah, sorry pal. I won't beileve some things that the Comic gives us.

[Qualia]

Wait a sec. Wasn't the comic also the thing that created me'dan.

Yah, sorry pal. I won't beileve some things that the Comic gives us.

Whether you believe it or not doesn't affect its canonical status, though. Last time I checked, Blizzard haven't said that it was non-canon yet.

[TheFirstOnes]

Whether you believe it or not doesn't affect its canonical status, though. Last time I checked, Blizzard haven't said that it was non-canon yet.

Blizz also hasn't stated if archimonde was truely dead not, so....yah...

[Qualia]

Blizz also hasn't stated if archimonde was truely dead not, so....yah...

They actually have. They said he IS dead, truely, just that they might change it in the future. It is susceptible to being changed in the future doesn't make t non-fact at the time being. And I'm not too sure what Archimonde has to do with the discussion at hand even? Are you trying to move the goal post or am I missing something?

[death604]

Still, Tyr never really struggled against Galakrond. I believe this is similar to the misunderstanding that Illidan was weaker than Arthas the Death Knight in TFT when he (Illidan) in fact had the upperhand most of the fight and Arthas only got two (albeit, one of them being the most important one) strikes in when Illidan was being careless. To elaborate: Tyr never used any magic in his final fight against Galakrond (bar the one that changed his size), just he and his hammer bashing Galakrond all over. The fight didn't seem even either: Tyr took no significant damage (at least, none was described), while grabbed and battered the proto drake to various extend of effects, from doing no damage (probably the harder part, i.e: the blow to the skull) to some damage (i.e: the ones to below or the sides of the jaw, or the punch inside the throat). He only lost in the last moment because something unexpected happened: when the hammer was knocked off, it also knocked his recording relic off as well. And Tyr decided, rather stupidly, to put his hand next to Galakrond's mouth trying to retrieve his little camcorder. Unsurprisingly, the proto drake bite down and Tyr lost his fight there, but that wasn't because he was weaker - it was just his mistake.

Arthas and Illidan is different because Illidan was underestimating Arthas and was cocky. Tyr on the other hand wasn't, he knew the threat of Galakarond that's why he asked Malygos then later all the other Aspects' help in the first place.

i don'tremember Galakrond sustaining damage in their fight other than being stunned for a moment due to being hit in the skull

the fact that Tyr asked for the help of the Aspects to fight Galakrond shows that Tyr isn't capable of beating galakrond on his own.

[Qualia]

Arthas and Illidan is different because Illidan was underestimating Arthas and was cocky. Tyr on the other hand wasn't, he knew the threat of Galakarond that's why he asked Malygos then later all the other Aspects' help in the first place.

i don'tremember Galakrond sustaining damage in their fight other than being stunned for a moment.

the fact that Tyr asked for the help of the Aspects to fight Galakrond shows that Tyr isn't capable of beating galakrond on his own.

While Tyr wasn't being overconfident, he didn't lose because he was weaker either. His blows were doing from no to some damage (depends on where he hit), while Tyr himself took no damage yet (plus that he hadn't used any offensive magic either). While I wouldn't claim that Tyr would have easily won if he was being serious, he wasn't defeated because Galakrond overpowered him - he lost because he put his hand in front of its mouth trying to recover the recording relic. That was something wouldn't happen in normal circumstances. Tyr was having the upperhand throughout the fight until that moment of stupidity, so I wouldn't say that he was struggling against it.

I was comparing it with Illidan's case since in both case, Tyr and Illidan were having upperhand (Tyr's fight was even more one-sided since Arthas at least gave Illidan a cut on the shoulder). They only lost because of their mistakes (Illidan was being arrogance and Tyr decided it was a good idea to put his hand in front of Galakrond's mouth) as the plot required them to lose, rather than they were weaker / less powerful than their opponents.

[TheFirstOnes]

They actually have. They said he IS dead, truely, just that they might change it in the future. It is susceptible to being changed in the future doesn't make t non-fact at the time being. And I'm not too sure what Archimonde has to do with the discussion at hand even? Are you trying to move the goal post or am I missing something?

I more or less question how we're even considered weak in the first place? I mean, we wield these almighty weapons, shouldnt that make us atleast 100x stronger than our WoD counterparts?

[Qualia]

I more or less question how we're even considered weak in the first place? I mean, we wield these almighty weapons, shouldnt that make us atleast 100x stronger than our WoD counterparts?

I'm not saying we are weak, though? I'm saying that the other characters were more powerful. Sure, we are more powerful than our WoD counterparts, but does that mean we are more powerful than - say, Khadgar, Malfurion or Gul'dan (presumably people were using his empowered version in NH)? All of them have exceptional feats or scale in power better than us. Plus, I'm counting player character as one individual, not a group of 10, 20, 36, hundreds or thousands. I don't think we are counting all possible player characters as one being, aren't we? Just like when we mentioned the Old Gods / Keepers / Aspects, we count them separately instead of all Old Gods together.

[TheFirstOnes]

I'm not saying we are weak, though? I'm saying that the other characters were more powerful. Sure, we are more powerful than our WoD counterparts, but does that mean we are more powerful than - say, Khadgar, Malfurion or Gul'dan (presumably people were using his empowered version in NH)? All of them have exceptional feats or scale in power better than us. Plus, I'm counting player character as one individual, not a group of 10, 20, 36, hundreds or thousands. I don't think we are counting all possible player characters as one being, aren't we? Just like when we mentioned the Old Gods / Keepers / Aspects, we count them separately instead of all Old Gods together.

Then, I ask this, How powerful will we be once we take down Lore sargeras himself?

[Qualia]

Then, I ask this, How powerful will we be once we take down Lore sargeras himself?

After or during the fight? Because I'm of the mind that whatever power we gained to fight Sargeras would just be temporary. Otherwise, we'd have an army capable of defeating someone powerful enough to destroy planet / solar system by himself. That would raise the stake too high for later bosses. During the fight, it depends - maybe we will get empowered to the Titan level, or maybe it'd be Xe'ra, Illidan, Malfurion, the Pantheon, etc. that fight him and we'd play the role of the helpers, buying time for them to do whatever they need to do. Blizzard can choose to go either way, in my opinion.

[death604]

While Tyr wasn't being overconfident, he didn't lose because he was weaker either. His blows were doing from no to some damage (depends on where he hit), while Tyr himself took no damage yet (plus that he hadn't used any offensive magic either). While I wouldn't claim that Tyr would have easily won if he was being serious, he wasn't defeated because Galakrond overpowered him - he lost because he put his hand in front of its mouth trying to recover the recording relic. That was something wouldn't happen in normal circumstances. Tyr was having the upperhand throughout the fight until that moment of stupidity, so I wouldn't say that he was struggling against it.

I was comparing it with Illidan's case since in both case, Tyr and Illidan were having upperhand (Tyr's fight was even more one-sided since Arthas at least gave Illidan a cut on the shoulder). They only lost because of their mistakes (Illidan was being arrogance and Tyr decided it was a good idea to put his hand in front of Galakrond's mouth) as the plot required them to lose, rather than they were weaker / less powerful than their opponents.

the fact that HE REQUESTED THE HELP OF MALYGOS AND ALL THE OTHER ASPECTS in fighting Galakrond suggest that he can't beat it on his own.... period, really.

can you quote the part where Galakrond was taking damage from Tyr? i don't really remember that.

[Qualia]

the fact that HE REQUESTED THE HELP OF MALYGOS AND ALL THE OTHER ASPECTS in fighting Galakrond suggest that he can't beat it on his own.... period, really.

can you quote the part where Galakrond was taking damage from Tyr? i don't really remember that.

Not really. While I wouldn't claim that Tyr definitely would have won, he didn't request the help of the Aspects for the sole purpose of defeating Galakrond. He was guiding and testing them in preparation to make them new protectors of Azeroth as the Keepers stopped caring, as was pointed out in DoTA:

“Tyr -the artifact made all this clear - always planned ahead. His only mistake was not foreseeing what Galakrond would become, as if anyone could have! He tried to make up for it by finding those champions who not only could defeat Galakrond but would also be willing to sacrifice themselves and their lives forever for the sake of Azeroth"

As of the fight between Tyr and Galakrond, Tyr's blows were doing various different degree of effects, such as (I'm leaving out the part which his blows did no damage whatsoever since we both know that happened):

"A thick form that Kalec initially identified as a fist as large as a full-grown proto-dragon hit Galakrond on the side of the jaw opposite from Neltharion. It hit with such force that the behemoth stumbled away from the blow"

"Then Tyr hit Galakrond, this time battering the other side of the proto-dragon’s huge jaws. Galakrond tumbled back, crashing into a mountainside to his right and sending a tremor through the vicinity"

"Tyr’s hammer silenced the laugh with a blow so hard that even Galakrond as he was now could not stand against it. The enormous proto-dragon spun away from the powerful hit, several bits of scale flying from the damaged spot. The keeper, who had leapt an incredible height to reach his target, seized Galakrond’s shoulder and, with the sudden shift in mass, brought his hideous adversary back to the ground"

"Even then, Tyr did not let up. Releasing his grip, he followed the hammer strike with his fist, bringing it up under Galakrond’s jaw. The massive proto-dragon’s head snapped up from the force. Tyr threw himself into his foe’s exposed chest, shoving the hammer toward Galakrond’s unprotected throat."

[TheFirstOnes]

After or during the fight? Because I'm of the mind that whatever power we gained to fight Sargeras would just be temporary. Otherwise, we'd have an army capable of defeating someone powerful enough to destroy planet / solar system by himself. That would raise the stake too high for later bosses. During the fight, it depends - maybe we will get empowered to the Titan level, or maybe it'd be Xe'ra, Illidan, Malfurion, the Pantheon, etc. that fight him and we'd play the role of the helpers, buying time for them to do whatever they need to do. Blizzard can choose to go either way, in my opinion.

Just how powerful is sargeras at full might? Planet lvl? Galaxy lvl? UNIVERSAL LVL?!

D: