Dakota Pipeline Protests

[Wells]

"I don't agree with something someone said. They're racist!"

You tell me. Does a conquered land have any say in the actions of the new rulers? We're just raised to have guilt in us for being superior, which is why we think what our ancestors did is wrong. It isn't. It's the natural course of history throughout all of humanity. Race has nothing to do with it.

They're not a conquered land. They're American citizens. So yeah, I'd say they have a right to a say government's actions.

[Sykol]

They're not a conquered land. They're American citizens. So yeah, I'd say they have a right to a say government's actions.

They're citizens via mercy. They really shouldn't be, seeing as how their tribes were destroyed by an invading people who conquered the land and took it as their own. Claiming heritage rights or whatever else is just laughable.

[Wells]

You spelled "jus soli" wrong again.

[Atrea]

Indians are really just lucky we let them stay around. A conquered civilization shouldn't have any say in the one that takes over.

Who is this 'we' you're speaking of?
Don't add plurality to your belligerence in order to lend it weight. You're on your own with that ass backwards way of thinking.

They're citizens via mercy. They really shouldn't be, seeing as how their tribes were destroyed by an invading people who conquered the land and took it as their own. Claiming heritage rights or whatever else is just laughable.

Except in Canada (which is where your profile says you're from), they weren't "destroyed by an invading people who conquered the land"; treaties were signed, agreements were made; not that they were kept, but your version of history is completely wrong.

Hardly surprising.

[Sykol]

Who is this 'we' you're speaking of?
Don't add plurality to your belligerence in order to lend it weight. You're on your own with that ass backwards way of thinking.

So in your mind, every conquering civilization through history should've just...what, adopted the losers into their fold and given them equal say and land in return for defeating them?

[Wells]

So in your mind, every conquering civilization through history should've just...what, adopted the losers into their fold and given them equal say and land in return for defeating them?

Worked pretty well for Rome.

[Sykol]

No one really "conquered" them anyway. If it wasn't for smallpox, the "conquerors" would have likely been absolutely destroyed by the tens of millions of inhabitants just like the vikings were.

They were already wiping themselves out through infighting as it was. Their numbers weren't as united or anywhere near as strong as years prior, and they would've succeeded in eliminating themselves if settlers didn't show up. Also, guns.

[Seranthor]

The fcc has opened an investigation into the alleged use of "stingray" technolodgy. It emulates the microwave towers cell phones typically use.

Then you'd be happy to share the source of your claim, yes?

[Zecora]

They were already wiping themselves out through infighting as it was. Their numbers weren't as united or anywhere near as strong as years prior, and they would've succeeded in eliminating themselves if settlers didn't show up. Also, guns.

Well, that is a load of bullshit if I ever saw one. There were no more infighting among the natives of the Americas than you saw in Europe, Asia or so on at the time. In addition, refering to the vast multitude of cultures as simply "they" (as if there was no difference between, say, the Haudenosaunee and the Lakota, or the Apache and the Pensacola) illustrates a complete lack of understanding of pre-Colombian cultures that is (sadly) frequently seen among those who now inhabit the land.

[Gatsbybutters]

Just another topic that allows you to see which FB friends are the dumb ones. At first you think "oh these poor native americans we need to help them", and then... you start reading about it from unbiased actual sources. Greed vs. Greed.

I love this new generation of deformed narcissistic hippie protestors. Bitch, we know you're doing it for likes on social media. Stop pretending. At this point this shit is their church. They don't actually believe, but hey, it's something to do and they get to socialize.

If you're against the pipeline, give us a way to safely move the oil. I know you're busy circle jerking to fake emotional news stories, so when you're done, get back to me with logistics. inb4 some barefoot trust fund kid living in a loft types a bunch of dumb shit at this post from his iphone.

[Shadowferal]

They're citizens via mercy. They really shouldn't be, seeing as how their tribes were destroyed by an invading people who conquered the land and took it as their own. Claiming heritage rights or whatever else is just laughable.

Your justification for a conqueror's villainy is no different that any vile filth that I've read regarding the Holocaust.

They were already wiping themselves out through infighting as it was. Their numbers weren't as united or anywhere near as strong as years prior, and they would've succeeded in eliminating themselves if settlers didn't show up. Also, guns.

Another ignorant post. You obviously don't know much about history at all. It was their numbers that kept the white man out of the continent for the longest time up until Jamestown, where the natives decided to help those ignorant foolish English. That was the red man's biggest mistake; underestimating the utter malice, rapacity, greed and ambition of the early European colonists.

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If you're against the pipeline, give us a way to safely move the oil. I know you're busy circle jerking to fake emotional news stories, so when you're done, get back to me with logistics. inb4 some barefoot trust fund kid living in a loft types a bunch of dumb shit at this post from his iphone.

How about we just say no?

....kids...

[Spectral]

How about we just say no?

This really gets at the heart of the matter - the protests aren't about rerouting to avoid sacred tribal land or to preserve the rights of the local Indians, they're about environmentalists wanting to stop the flow of oil altogether. The tribe is just a convenient cudgel to wield against the company such that people siding with the company (which appears to have been meticulous in following regulation) get bogged down in the sorts of ridiculous racialized conversations that this thread's devolved into.

[Gatsbybutters]

Your justification for a conqueror's villainy is no different that any vile filth that I've read regarding the Holocaust.


Another ignorant post. You obviously don't know much about history at all. It was their numbers that kept the white man out of the continent for the longest time up until Jamestown, where the natives decided to help those ignorant foolish English. That was the red man's biggest mistake; underestimating the utter malice, rapacity, greed and ambition of the early European colonists.

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How about we just say no?

....kids...

^ Also a dumb response. I don't feel like explaining US/World oil production/sales and all it's impacts to all the other markets. Just say no lol. Alright, no more cars or public transport for you. Or electricity. Or Internet. Why are you on the internet right now? Shouldn't you be fighting the good fight? Oh that's right, it's not about the fight, it's about you feeling better.

[Drew79]

I hope that Trump will tear all these treaties apart. Bring equality to everyone no matter their race. No one should be special, affirmative action included. The government needs to stop being racist and treat all Americans equal.

[stabetha]

How about we just say no?

....kids...

Just say no to oil? LOL, you aren't serious are you?
or no to useing our own oil supply and just buy it from countries that really violate human rights and support terrorist?

[Kryos]

Why doesn't Obama say anything? Yes, he has no legal means to end this at once, but if the President of the United States (and he still is, Trump will be Friday, Jan. 20, 2017 and not a single day before) would support the native Americans and their rights, then it would be political very hard to continue with the pipeline on sacred ground. I'm very disapointed in Obama on this topic. SAY SOMETHING!

[Spectral]

Why doesn't Obama say anything? Yes, he has no legal means to end this at once, but if the President of the United States (and he still is, Trump will be Friday, Jan. 20, 2017 and not a single day before) would support the native Americans and their rights, then it would be political very hard to continue with the pipeline on sacred ground. I'm very disapointed in Obama on this topic. SAY SOMETHING!

Have you considered the possibility that Obama reviewed the matter and concluded that he concurs with the court ruling in favor of the Army Corps of Engineers?

[Kryos]

Just say no to oil? LOL, you aren't serious are you?
or no to useing our own oil supply and just buy it from countries that really violate human rights and support terrorist?

No, go green, big time. A whole island run on solar now and that's just a small project.

Go fucking green. There are so many hot and nearly empty deserts in USA - cover them with solar cells. Mojave Desert has some smaller projects but they could do so much more.

Sunlight bestows 12.2 trillion watt-hours per square mile per year, HARVEST IT! Build more high performance batteries, put solar cells everywhere. Use the biggest natural resource we have, the sun. Tesla shows how it works, now it's up to us to make this available to the masses.

The whole planets nature runs on solar power - they are called plants and they are the reason we exist (oxygen). Copy nature, havest the sun power.

The need for oil after that for plastic and rubber will be less than 1% of the oil needed now.

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Have you considered the possibility that Obama reviewed the matter and concluded that he concurs with the court ruling in favor of the Army Corps of Engineers?

Then he should say that. Just no comment on this is wrong.

[Auxora]

The DAPL thing is one of those deals where on the surface when you see Native Americans seemingly being wronged again, and terrible pictures of people being hosed your heart goes out to them.

But when you look into this whole thing further, if you look at the Native American lands per the 1851 Treaty of Fort Laramie the pipeline doesn't even go through them. It goes near the NE corner of them, but that's it. You'd think for all the protesting that the pipeline goes right through the middle of their lands and that's not at all the case. Could a spill near their lands cross-over? I suppose, but it's a pipeline and so if there's a break anywhere they will quickly turn off a valve ahead of it. It's not like Deepwater Horizon where it will pour oil out uncontrolled for weeks.

And there are always these eminent domain things for the better infrastructure of our country. The whole idea is to move oil more efficiently and safer than by rail as it's done today. If they don't do the pipeline they'll continue to have trainloads of oil by rail taking a similar path. And that's probably more risky to the lands of an accident. If we took this approach to everything there wouldn't be highways, or airports, or railroads. The people there in the lands have cars too, which use gas, so it's kind of hypocritical to be anti-oil. It's like how everyone wants an airport close enough to not have to drive far when they want to take a trip by plane, but they just don't want an airport near them because of the noise. Or they love bacon but don't put a hog farm within 100 miles. It reminds me of the semi-truck bumper sticker I often see that says "If you don't like all the trucks on the highway quit buying so much stuff at WalMart".

And what escalated this was when the workers on the pipeline started having construction equipment vandalized and even torched at night. The law enforcement have been going a little overboard with the pretend soldier bit as they often tend to do, but it's not been completely innocent on the other side either.

[Spectral]

No, go green, big time. A whole island run on solar now and that's just a small project. Go fucking green. There are so many hot and nearly empty deserts in USA - cover them with solar cells. Sunlight bestows 12.2 trillion watt-hours per square mile per year, HARVEST IT! Build more high performance batteries, put solar cells everywhere. Use the biggest natural resource we have, the sun. Tesla shows how it works, now it's up to us to make this available to the masses.

The need for oil after that for plastic and rubber will be less than 1% of the oil needed now.

This is not remotely feasible in the short run. Solar energy storage remains a significant technical challenge, blanketing deserts with solar panels has significant environment concerns (and you can plan on NIMBYism from locals), and the infrastructure that would be required to replaced gasoline with electric for cars is staggering. I'm not necessarily against going this direction, but it would be a multi-trillion dollar decades-long project and isn't actually a good argument for stopping oil transportation today.

Then he should say that. Just no comment on this is wrong.

While he hasn't spoken explicitly on the matter, you don't have to read too far between the lines of the executive branch's actions to see that he's not standing with Standing Rock...

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But when you look into this whole thing further, if you look at the Native American lands per the 1851 Treaty of Fort Laramie the pipeline doesn't even go through them. It goes near the NE corner of them, but that's it. You'd think for all the protesting that the pipeline goes right through the middle of their lands and that's not at all the case. Could a spill near their lands cross-over? I suppose, but it's a pipeline and so if there's a break anywhere they will quickly turn off a valve ahead of it. It's not like Deepwater Horizon where it will pour oil out uncontrolled for weeks.

Also worth a mention is that the company did work with local stakeholders and made routing changes based on their input; they reached out to the Standing Rock Sioux regarding the matter repeatedly and didn't get any replies. The tribal leadership in the time before attempting to file an injunction basically screwed up royally and then convinced many people that they were somehow the victim.