Suramar Elven Armies; The Blood Elves rise!

[Rhlor]

thank you for that, it's nice to have the quote refresh clarity of the issue. It presents are less than straightforward situation



That is twisting the issue, it feels like trying to justify a wrong. Every high elf had a choice, some of them made the choice even though it cost them their lives - it's not their principles that killed them, it was Arthas' act of defiling the sunwell which necessitated it's dispersion, or their over dependency on it - not their decision not to defile or corrupt themselves with handling fel, a force they're all too aware can easily corrupt the soul - kudos to the demon hunters for resisting that corruption in the soul, but it is is absolutely the right thing not to take fel for those who refused it when the other option was available. It is stronger to resist and refuse based on doing right than it is to compromise like Kael did and in general the blood elves.

ANd yes, I note that not all blood elves did - kudos for them, so i'm not condemning the blood elves as evil, even though many did compromise and that was wrong. let's call it what it was, the blood elves were going astray from what is good until they meet A'dal - they were been lead into evil by a prince who had gone past even his mentor Illidan and gone further into evil - let's not forget the blood elves did a lot of wrong, harsh and cruel things during that period till their redemption. And while not all did, le'ts not forget that for a while, blood elf meant all those things to a lot of others, and still does, even though they've moved on../

only very few people knew fel and not use for feeding.
blood elves sometimes harsh and cruel undoubtedly Lady Liadrin and blood knights were the worst of the whole thing. The worst thing that the blood elves did was torture a naaru.


have to stop thinking about fel, the blood elves and high elves fought because eating animals.
You read In the Shadow of the Sun?

[Friendlyimmolation]

@ravenmoon, blood of the highborne and shadow of the sun are things you should read, Fel was not the reason the High elves threw a shitfit and were kicked out.

[ravenmoon]

@ravenmoon, blood of the highborne and shadow of the sun are things you should read, Fel was not the reason the High elves threw a shitfit and were kicked out.

ah.. okay.. i started reading that, but haven't finished it yet.. read list is so large atm. Will do. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Rhlor]

ah.. okay.. i started reading that, but haven't finished it yet.. read list is so large atm. Will do. Thanks for bringing it up.

The blood of the high born is great !! Lor'themar and lady liadrin 4evah !!

[Aquamonkey]

There was one guy on mmo-c forums that would pull up numbers from his ass and demonstrate us alliance and horde army strengths. I think we should consult to him. He is the guy you need for your questions.

Ah, you mean @Aquamonkey.

I think he's talking about @BritishBulldog.

• Size of the Legion military force in Legion and the amount of death they would cause
• The Military Power of Major Antagonists
• Populations of the Factions in Legion
• Populations of these cities in present time
• Population of these factions in present time

[DemonHunter18]

I think he's talking about @BritishBulldog.

• Size of the Legion military force in Legion and the amount of death they would cause
• The Military Power of Major Antagonists
• Populations of the Factions in Legion
• Populations of these cities in present time
• Population of these factions in present time

LMAO you even have that in bookmarks

you forgot about his "Lich King is stronger than anyone, including Sargeras"

[Gref]

Oh yes that was definitely biritshbulldog. No idea how he can pull out those numbers tho

[Zulkhan]

The High Elves' choice would be a legit one as long that was kept for themselves. They refuse the "easy way" and try to survive in a manner that better fit their traditions.

It becomes kind of an issue if you have no intention to exile yourself but rather pretend that the whole nation adapted to an objectively inefficient approach to survival, at least when it's measured to the urgent necessities Quel'Thalas had at the time in terms of protection of their home; they needed people strong and ready to fight against Scourge, Amani and even their own people later on, someting Rommath's teachings proved to be effecient for.

The High Elves were free to make their choice but they didn't accept that Quel'Thalas should have ceased to be their home, they didn't either acknowledged or accepted the gravity of the situation, pretending the reality to bend over their wishes rather than the other way around. If they had to be an hindrance in one of the most grave and delicate situations of their people's history than it was far better for them to be miles away from their beloved kingdom. It's really like High Elves accepted that even death was better than bending thousands-years-old traditions, letting their pride to get in the way.

In all fairness, there's Blood Elves that occasionally fell to that trick too. Most notably Rommath, who pretty much said that it was better to die altogether rather than continuing to be Sylvanas' lapdogs, a statement Lor'themar found pretty horrific (even though it's also noted that such outburst was mostly caused by the heavy amount of stress and grief Rommath went through during the final events of TBC).

- - - Updated - - -

I think he's talking about @BritishBulldog.

• Size of the Legion military force in Legion and the amount of death they would cause
• The Military Power of Major Antagonists
• Populations of the Factions in Legion
• Populations of these cities in present time
• Population of these factions in present time

And Aquamonkey wins. Top kek.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Read this thread before getting a chance to do the new quests, was expecting something impressive when i got there. Its literally the same on both sides besides the blood elves bringing a crack rock with them.

[Zandalariprelate]

With the small preview of the tomb of sargeras patch in which we saw the new factions of the broken isles there(valajar, farondis, highmountains, druids) have any one saw any nightfallen there? I will like to see which new tricks they get with combinating some gadgets of the night and blood elves.

[ravenmoon]

The High Elves were free to make their choice but they didn't accept that Quel'Thalas should have ceased to be their home, they didn't either acknowledged or accepted the gravity of the situation, pretending the reality to bend over their wishes rather than the other way around. If they had to be an hindrance in one of the most grave and delicate situations of their people's history than it was far better for them to be miles away from their beloved kingdom. It's really like High Elves accepted that even death was better than bending thousands-years-old traditions, letting their pride to get in the way.

That's the thing though, the High elves don't just view it as breaking with traditions. that's the Blood elf point of view now.. they call it tradition, for the high elves it's principle, it's wrong vs right, good vs evil - it's much more than parting with tradition. I can understand the blood elves now view it that way because they don't hold to those beliefs and/or, but those beliefs are fundamental to the high elf identity and it is important to uphold what you believe is right.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's the thing though, the High elves don't just view it as breaking with traditions. that's the Blood elf point of view now.. they call it tradition, for the high elves it's principle, it's wrong vs right, good vs evil - it's much more than parting with tradition. I can understand the blood elves now view it that way because they don't hold to those beliefs and/or, but those beliefs are fundamental to the high elf identity and it is important to uphold what you believe is right.

sure, except for the part where they were starting to go into violent riots, they went from wounded white knights to full own stupid, no pity to be had.

[Frontenac]

With the cleansing of the Sunwell, I wonder if the cultural and philosophical differences between quel'dorei and sin'dorei are really significant. It seems to me that the quarel between the two factions is now mainly political, as the high elves chose to remain in the Alliance while the blood elves allied themselves with the Horde.

[derpkitteh]

so what, does the quest line end after you kill the pitlord or what?

i need more, dammit, a lot more. made me wait ages for this, at least have the decency to give me a real elfgasm.

also, is scarleth the matron of a brothel or something? talks about "her girls" and i can only think of one type of establishment with an owner that refers to the women as their girls.

[ravenmoon]

sure, except for the part where they were starting to go into violent riots, they went from wounded white knights to full own stupid, no pity to be had.

now why do you think blizzard wrote it that way...

what do you think the perspective of the high elves would be in this situation? [we are talking about the silver covenant here right.. and it would be safe to assume they're not simply crazy]

- - - Updated - - -

With the cleansing of the Sunwell, I wonder if the cultural and philosophical differences between quel'dorei and sin'dorei are really significant. It seems to me that the quarel between the two factions is now mainly political, as the high elves chose to remain in the Alliance while the blood elves allied themselves with the Horde.

I think blizzard aren't that sloppy to make it purely political.. it is a significant enough philosophical difference for them to not only be a separate group, but a faction of the high elves, the Silver Covenant to be at war with the blood elves. Currently, it's more hatred than war, and Vereesa seems to be the generator of the hate, but her position is not without merit. But in Legion it has significantly shifted from the all out war. Although in 7.1 Liadrin's comment concerning Vereesa feels like blizzard re-igniting the conflict that seemed put to bed when we explored her in 7.0 ... either that or it is clear that Liadrin is not aware of Vereesa's softening towards them, because Vereesa is more annoyed at the kaldorei rather than the sin'dorei when you click on her. And if you add that to her very sin'dorei friendly behaviour in the hunter artifact quest.. it could be blizzard just showing Liadrin's viewpoint rather than an indication the hatred is still very strong.

Blood elves have abandoned their high ideals, and are in a position that high elves deem untrustworthy. Ofc according to the blood elves, such ideals and viewpoints are naiive, and fruitless, mainly because they feel that such led to the ruin of Quel'thalas - so the blood elves have become far more cunning and now are not hesistant to seek or use power ruthlessly - no more holding back because of what they view as moral issues - which the high elves view as right v wrong .

This is where the diferences started, that have led to a widening of a gap between the two, and then stuff happened that necessitated elf on elf violence. The blood elves seem to be the instigators of violent or wrong behaviour, and the other elven groups retaliate. In the night elf situation, it's the blood elves that attack on sight rather than have a conversation. It is the blood elves that destroy Theramore, a home for not a few number of high elves - which prompts the actions of the silver covenant in dalaran .. but i think that is consistent with the horde in general.

The horde is usually written to be the more aggressive and instigator of violence betweent he two factions. Classic horde and alliance had quite contrasting quest line differences, alliance quests were almost exclusively against environment and saving x, y, z from some effect or thing that had gone wrong, but a good portion of the horde quests were focused on targetting the alliance. The horde was obsessed with the alliance a lot more than the alliance was obsessed with the horde. [if you ever played both]

[Rhlor]

now why do you think blizzard wrote it that way...

what do you think the perspective of the high elves would be in this situation? [we are talking about the silver covenant here right.. and it would be safe to assume they're not simply crazy]

- - - Updated - - -



I think blizzard aren't that sloppy to make it purely political.. it is a significant enough philosophical difference for them to not only be a separate group, but a faction of the high elves, the Silver Covenant to be at war with the blood elves. Currently, it's more hatred than war, and Vereesa seems to be the generator of the hate, but her position is not without merit. But in Legion it has significantly shifted from the all out war. Although in 7.1 Liadrin's comment concerning Vereesa feels like blizzard re-igniting the conflict that seemed put to bed when we explored her in 7.0 ... either that or it is clear that Liadrin is not aware of Vereesa's softening towards them, because Vereesa is more annoyed at the kaldorei rather than the sin'dorei when you click on her. And if you add that to her very sin'dorei friendly behaviour in the hunter artifact quest.. it could be blizzard just showing Liadrin's viewpoint rather than an indication the hatred is still very strong.

Blood elves have abandoned their high ideals, and are in a position that high elves deem untrustworthy. Ofc according to the blood elves, such ideals and viewpoints are naiive, and fruitless, mainly because they feel that such led to the ruin of Quel'thalas - so the blood elves have become far more cunning and now are not hesistant to seek or use power ruthlessly - no more holding back because of what they view as moral issues - which the high elves view as right v wrong .

This is where the diferences started, that have led to a widening of a gap between the two, and then stuff happened that necessitated elf on elf violence. The blood elves seem to be the instigators of violent or wrong behaviour, and the other elven groups retaliate. In the night elf situation, it's the blood elves that attack on sight rather than have a conversation. It is the blood elves that destroy Theramore, a home for not a few number of high elves - which prompts the actions of the silver covenant in dalaran .. but i think that is consistent with the horde in general.

The horde is usually written to be the more aggressive and instigator of violence betweent he two factions. Classic horde and alliance had quite contrasting quest line differences, alliance quests were almost exclusively against environment and saving x, y, z from some effect or thing that had gone wrong, but a good portion of the horde quests were focused on targetting the alliance. The horde was obsessed with the alliance a lot more than the alliance was obsessed with the horde. [if you ever played both]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...rthemar-theron

[Friendlyimmolation]

now why do you think blizzard wrote it that way...

what do you think the perspective of the high elves would be in this situation? [we are talking about the silver covenant here right.. and it would be safe to assume they're not simply crazy]

have you actually bit the bullet and read anything with Vereesa in it? She is not a good person, nor a smart person, not even sensible, and she leads a group of angry emotional elves just like her. Their situation? They wanted their cake and to eat it too. You keep trying to incite pity where there should be none.

[Frontenac]

I think blizzard aren't that sloppy to make it purely political.. it is a significant enough philosophical difference for them to not only be a separate group, but a faction of the high elves, the Silver Covenant to be at war with the blood elves. Currently, it's more hatred than war, and Vereesa seems to be the generator of the hate, but her position is not without merit. But in Legion it has significantly shifted from the all out war. Although in 7.1 Liadrin's comment concerning Vereesa feels like blizzard re-igniting the conflict that seemed put to bed when we explored her in 7.0 ... either that or it is clear that Liadrin is not aware of Vereesa's softening towards them, because Vereesa is more annoyed at the kaldorei rather than the sin'dorei when you click on her. And if you add that to her very sin'dorei friendly behaviour in the hunter artifact quest.. it could be blizzard just showing Liadrin's viewpoint rather than an indication the hatred is still very strong.

Blood elves have abandoned their high ideals, and are in a position that high elves deem untrustworthy. Ofc according to the blood elves, such ideals and viewpoints are naiive, and fruitless, mainly because they feel that such led to the ruin of Quel'thalas - so the blood elves have become far more cunning and now are not hesistant to seek or use power ruthlessly - no more holding back because of what they view as moral issues - which the high elves view as right v wrong .

This is where the diferences started, that have led to a widening of a gap between the two, and then stuff happened that necessitated elf on elf violence. The blood elves seem to be the instigators of violent or wrong behaviour, and the other elven groups retaliate. In the night elf situation, it's the blood elves that attack on sight rather than have a conversation. It is the blood elves that destroy Theramore, a home for not a few number of high elves - which prompts the actions of the silver covenant in dalaran .. but i think that is consistent with the horde in general.

The horde is usually written to be the more aggressive and instigator of violence betweent he two factions. Classic horde and alliance had quite contrasting quest line differences, alliance quests were almost exclusively against environment and saving x, y, z from some effect or thing that had gone wrong, but a good portion of the horde quests were focused on targetting the alliance. The horde was obsessed with the alliance a lot more than the alliance was obsessed with the horde. [if you ever played both]

The initial split has been for ethical reasons. The high elves refused to suck magic from living beings. That caused strife in Quel'thalas, Lor'themar could not accept dissent, so he threw the high elves out (and turned Quel'thalas into a police state). But now, the Sunwell is back. The Blood Elves do not need to suck magic out of living beings anymore. The Blood Knights themselves do not need to suck the Light out of a dying naaru. They even turned more into traditional paladins ever since. So the philosophical gap between the two is not that great anymore. Besides, every nation has pragmatic people and others that are idealists. That is not enough to justify the present rift between the two factions of elves.

The problem has become more political. Why did the Quel'lithien Rangers refuse to trust Lor'themar when he offered him his aid? Because they were exiled by him, sure. But mainly because they were attacked by Horde adventurers sent by Nathanos Blightcaller, Champion of the Banshee Queen, leader of the Forsaken who are now stationned in Tranquilien. These are political reasons. What Vereesa and her Silver Covenant have against the Blood Elves? Mainly that they are part of the Horde, and that as allies of the Horde, some of them helped in the obliteration of Theramore, where a group of high elves took refuge. Again, these are political reasons. We are at a point where the Blood Elves alliegence to the Horde is solely what makes it more and more difficult for the High Elves to rejoin their kin. The reverse is also true. Acts perpetrated by the High Elves as members of the Alliance make it more difficult for the Blood Elves to accept their eventual return.

[Zandalariprelate]

With the cleansing of the Sunwell, I wonder if the cultural and philosophical differences between quel'dorei and sin'dorei are really significant. It seems to me that the quarel between the two factions is now mainly political, as the high elves chose to remain in the Alliance while the blood elves allied themselves with the Horde.

Many High Elves are not allowed it to get enter and some of them still have some resentment against the blood elves, in the lor'themar theron short story in the page after the events of the sunwell raid, he invited the elves of Quel'Lithien to come back to live in quel'thalas but the high elves of there, rejected the offer because he cast them out of their land because they want to investigate others methods to cure their addiction instead of using the methods of kael to just months later theron and cia rebel against kael and condemn the use of fel magic so many of them see him as a hypocrite. I would like to know how Alleria would react to theron because of his actions

[Cl4nK]

Many High Elves are not allowed it to get enter and some of them still have some resentment against the blood elves, in the lor'themar theron short story in the page after the events of the sunwell raid, he invited the elves of Quel'Lithien to come back to live in quel'thalas but the high elves of there, rejected the offer because he cast them out of their land because they want to investigate others methods to cure their addiction instead of using the methods of kael to just months later theron and cia rebel against kael and condemn the use of fel magic so many of them see him as a hypocrite. I would like to know how Alleria would react to theron because of his actions

I'm pretty sure any elf is allowed to enter, after all, Lor'themar invited them back after the restoration of the Sunwell. Not to mention shit's all fucked up, considering it was Tyrande who spoke against the Helves joining the Alliance, and it was exactly the lack of support from the Alliance during WC3 that made them join the Horde in the first place.