7.1.5: Fire completely wrecked

[Deleted]

"Exceptionally OP" yet beat by multiple specs on the fights where they are "exceptionally OP." I don't know what expansion you are playing but it sure as shit isn't legion.


"Best caster on other fights" so warlocks and Spriest aren't casters now?

Nyth - Demo locks beat fire
Ilg - shadow, afflic and destro beat fire.
Ren - fire wins
Ursoc - Shadow and demo beat fire
Dragons - Afflic beats fire
Cenarius - Afflic, shadow, demo, destro, balance all beat fire.
Xavius - Shadow and afflic beat fire.

Odyn - Shadow, afflic, demo, destro, balance, all beat fire.
Guarm - shadow, afflic, demo, balance all beat fire.
Helya - Shadow beats fire.


Literally only one fight where fire beats all casters. And the three fights they are in the top 5 are all due to unnecessary padding. Those mobs die within seconds regardless of fire mages. Source

I've said this in this thread before, and I'll say it again, I'm sorry that elemental shamans are in a bad place, but don't advocate for fire nerfs because you chose the wrong spec. Especially when your opinion is based on feelcrafting rather than empirical evidence.

Fire is not the best caster rofl. Even elemental can be better in some fights with proper gear. In my guild, NONE plays Fire as their main spec now, all switched to Arcane, and for good reason, better than fire now, and will be EXCEPTIONALLY good in 7.1.5.

So yes, if these changes go live, Fire is DEAD.

RIP 35 points.

Not sure when you stopped raiding in Legion, but must have been before fire nerfs.
Other ranged beat them on 90% fights, on half of them by big margins.

You can judge this by looking at logs, or you could compare fire mage toolkit versus the things other casters have. Other classes dont have blink-while-casting, ice floes, ice block, ice barrier, cauterise, so many instant casts I stopped counting on top of strong dots if you suddenly run out of blinks and floes.

Like I said before... got bad gear or legendaries? Start farming mythic+ and stop crying. Skilled mages are definitely pulling their weight and wont lose their raid spots.

[deadman1]

You can judge this by looking at logs, or you could compare fire mage toolkit versus the things other casters have. Other classes dont have blink-while-casting, ice floes, ice block, ice barrier, cauterise, so many instant casts I stopped counting on top of strong dots if you suddenly run out of blinks and floes.

Who cares about a toolkit when logs show emperical evidence that you are incorrect? The parses show that even with that strong toolkit the damage still isn't being produced.

You are comparing quality of life to throughput, this is false equivalency.

Like I said before... got bad gear or legendaries? Start farming mythic+ and stop crying. Skilled mages are definitely pulling their weight and wont lose their raid spots.

No it's not a personal thing, this is overall, I'm not linking my logs, I'm linking the overall logs.

I can see you don't want to listen to anything anyone is saying, you are too caught up in your feelcrafting and don't care about data and parses.

[Krazzorx]

"Exceptionally OP" yet beat by multiple specs on the fights where they are "exceptionally OP." I don't know what expansion you are playing but it sure as shit isn't legion.


"Best caster on other fights" so warlocks and Spriest aren't casters now?

Nyth - Demo locks beat fire
Ilg - shadow, afflic and destro beat fire.
Ren - fire wins
Ursoc - Shadow and demo beat fire
Dragons - Afflic beats fire
Cenarius - Afflic, shadow, demo, destro, balance all beat fire.
Xavius - Shadow and afflic beat fire.

Odyn - Shadow, afflic, demo, destro, balance, all beat fire.
Guarm - shadow, afflic, demo, balance all beat fire.
Helya - Shadow beats fire.


Literally only one fight where fire beats all casters. And the three fights they are in the top 5 are all due to unnecessary padding. Those mobs die within seconds regardless of fire mages. Source

I've said this in this thread before, and I'll say it again, I'm sorry that elemental shamans are in a bad place, but don't advocate for fire nerfs because you chose the wrong spec. Especially when your opinion is based on feelcrafting rather than empirical evidence.

But what about NH? When these changes will happen?

There's a lot of cleave fights there with important adds. Skorpyron, Chronomatic Anomoly iirc, Tichondrius, Spellblade and possibly Gul'dan (not tested ofc but those eyes seem like good and important cleave) and Krosus. (Are those adds close enough for ignite spreading?)

[deadman1]

But what about NH? When these changes will happen?

There's a lot of cleave fights there with important adds. Skorpyron, Chronomatic Anomoly iirc, Tichondrius, Spellblade and possibly Gul'dan (not tested ofc but those eyes seem like good and important cleave) and Krosus. (Are those adds close enough for ignite spreading?)

The changes are supposed to be before Nighthold comes out. I'm not too sure about nighthold because I haven't done it an I have no actual data on it.

[JIMM-]

Who cares about a toolkit when logs show emperical evidence that you are incorrect? The parses show that even with that strong toolkit the damage still isn't being produced.

You are comparing quality of life to throughput, this is false equivalency.


No it's not a personal thing, this is overall, I'm not linking my logs, I'm linking the overall logs.

I can see you don't want to listen to anything anyone is saying, you are too caught up in your feelcrafting and don't care about data and parses.

agree with u man, the other guy is like lol ,

u provided me all the logs n numbers to back up your claim?

fine lol, now im just gonna complain about other things and stray away from the "best caster" topic that i just started n get destroyed horribly at, and now im just going to herp n derp and say how your 3 buttons are easier to press than my 3 buttons .. so much for the feelcrafting hero that simply ignores all the facts presented to him

[Deleted]

I would advise anyone in this thread, to ignore replies from absolute trolls, that in turn choose to ignore all factual data provided.

Mages are not in a great spot on live, this is sustained and underlined by the massive amount of logs available to anyone willing to take a gander.

We've stopped taking mages to ToV for that simple reason. Guild progression > personal class preference.

[AceofH]

maybe i should rethink leveling my mage next.

[CptEgo]

I
We've stopped taking mages to ToV for that simple reason. Guild progression > personal class preference.

Oh really, Danish Terrace just killed Helya mythic (worlds 3rd) with 5 Fire mages on the roster, ranked 3,4,5,8 and 9th on the DPS meter. You are clearly making a mistake.

[waat]

Oh really, Danish Terrace just killed Helya mythic (worlds 3rd) with 5 Fire mages on the roster, ranked 3,4,5,8 and 9th on the DPS meter. You are clearly making a mistake.

I'd imagine their cheesy blobstacking strat makes fire mages a lot more viable than most. That strat is also getting hotfixed fyi.

[Fojos]

Not sure if this post has been discussed?

"While Fire was mostly in a good place, we’re looking at two related issues in 7.1.5; the degree to which critical strike dominates other stats, and the overly high amount of damage concentrated into Combustion. Focusing on critical strike’s very strong contribution to the damage of Combustion, as well as that of Pyretic Incantation, addresses both of these. We'll be adjusting the damage of Fire’s core spells to leave its total damage similar to what it was before these changes."

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...ge=14#post-268

So what's the problem? They aren't planning to actually nerf Fire at all. Why are people going crazy over this?

One, with a higher diversity of fights we see that fire is actually becoming quite weak, and strong on niche fights. Second is they've said this many times after PTR changes but still screwed up a spec huge time. Historically large nerfs in the past (even if they said they didn't intend to nerf) have been significant nerfs in the end as well.

Even with the apparently OP legendary these mages are having a very hard time even competing with other classes that have legendaries considered mediocre.

- - - Updated - - -

You can judge this by looking at logs, or you could compare fire mage toolkit versus the things other casters have. Other classes dont have blink-while-casting, ice floes, ice block, ice barrier, cauterise, so many instant casts I stopped counting on top of strong dots if you suddenly run out of blinks and floes.

Like I said before... got bad gear or legendaries? Start farming mythic+ and stop crying. Skilled mages are definitely pulling their weight and wont lose their raid spots.

Can't use cauterize at the same time as ice floes. And floes and blink is required to even compete with the other casters. And strong dots? The dots aren't strong if you have to move. It's based on the DPS you are doing right now.

[BiggestNoob]

Can't use cauterize at the same time as ice floes. And floes and blink is required to even compete with the other casters. And strong dots? The dots aren't strong if you have to move. It's based on the DPS you are doing right now.

lol ignite strong

We have one of the weakest masteries in the game. My 100 Balance's DoTs were ticking harder than Ignite does at 880 outside of Combustion.

[Deleted]

Can't use cauterize at the same time as ice floes. And floes and blink is required to even compete with the other casters. And strong dots? The dots aren't strong if you have to move. It's based on the DPS you are doing right now.

Yeah, you need ice floes and blink-while-casting to compete with Warlocks & Shaman with 0 mobility. If you've OP legendaries and cant beat most classes its time to re roll or quit, you're right - but not because your class is bad.

As for strong dots... they tick while you move, that was the point and not how hard they tick. If you cant understand basics then why comment?

[Tornado]

These tears are absolutely delicious. Keep them flowing mages!

Infracted.

[Deleted]

Yeah, you need ice floes and blink-while-casting to compete with Warlocks & Shaman with 0 mobility. If you've OP legendaries and cant beat most classes its time to re roll or quit, you're right - but not because your class is bad.

As for strong dots... they tick while you move, that was the point and not how hard they tick. If you cant understand basics then why comment?

stop feeding the troll.

[stevenho]

As for strong dots... they tick while you move, that was the point and not how hard they tick.

I love the fact that our DOTs continue ticking when we move. Other classes have it really bad with their DOTs.

[BiggestNoob]

Yeah, you need ice floes and blink-while-casting to compete with Warlocks & Shaman with 0 mobility. If you've OP legendaries and cant beat most classes its time to re roll or quit, you're right - but not because your class is bad.

As for strong dots... they tick while you move, that was the point and not how hard they tick. If you cant understand basics then why comment?

Yep, those 2 DoTs which represent a tiny fraction of our DPS means we're not punished for movement.

Meanwhile balance, affliction, and shadow get a lot more out of their DoTs and they're all doing better than fire, in spite of being punished more for moving (aside from SP in STM).

I love the fact that our DOTs continue ticking when we move. Other classes have it really bad with their DOTs.

I tried playing shadow but the DoTs stopped ticking while I was moving. Can't handle it!

[Deleted]

This is a mage only phenomen. You compare yourselves to balance and shadows and still somehow think you're inferior. Outside of S2M (which is fixed in 7.1.5, along with over the top mage mobility/burst), you still have auto-spreading dots on top of all your mobility and defensive utility. Blizzard often says how specs should be great in X and only good in Y, but in Legion fire mages had it too good.

Just think for one second what a mage has over any other ranged caster. This whole topic is a joke, hence why top mages dont even comment, since theres no issue if you're a good mage.

[Naiyano]

This is a mage only phenomen. You compare yourselves to balance and shadows and still somehow think you're inferior. Outside of S2M (which is fixed in 7.1.5, along with over the top mage mobility/burst), you still have auto-spreading dots on top of all your mobility and defensive utility. Blizzard often says how specs should be great in X and only good in Y, but in Legion fire mages had it too good.

Just think for one second what a mage has over any other ranged caster. This whole topic is a joke, hence why top mages dont even comment, since theres no issue if you're a good mage.

I would say:

- "top mages" don't post in threads with a title like that
- "top mages" just play arcane if its better
- "top mages" have another class at a similar level and just switch

I will btw not explain again what fire mages weaknesses are. Others did that countless times already.

[nocturnus]

Oh really, Danish Terrace just killed Helya mythic (worlds 3rd) with 5 Fire mages on the roster, ranked 3,4,5,8 and 9th on the DPS meter. You are clearly making a mistake.

Grats to you for replying with an example of a niche fight, about to get hotfixed in an otherwise horrible tier for mages. You must be a very intelligent person.

Guys, lets just stop feeding the, ya know.

[CptEgo]

Grats to you for replying with an example of a niche fight, about to get hotfixed in an otherwise horrible tier for mages. You must be a very intelligent person.

Guys, lets just stop feeding the, ya know.

I wonder if even Julius Caesar himself sometimes felt jealous of others, sitting on his throne. The world at his feet.