Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[wunksta]

Legacy fans don't want QoL chances, least of all balance changes. Balance changes, really? That should be the last line of defense since they are all horrible, compared to Legacy.

QoL changes such as Looking-for-dungeon .. keep em, pls. We do not want them, your mess, not Legacy fan's mess.

You said a lot of stuff but I really wanted to point something out, the majority of Quality of Life changes were asked for by the community at the time. Not everyone enjoyed running to a dungeon, for example. You make it sound like Blizzard pushed these changes onto people when in fact it was something that many people wanted. I'm not sure why you are talking on behalf of every player during Vanilla, but you are simply wrong.

That loyal fanbase is still here. They are not playing retail. They did not leave.

Again, you would be hard pressed to say that the majority of people who enjoyed Vanilla WoW would return. Look at the numbers themselves. There were what, around 7 million people playing during Vanilla? How many people are playing on every single private Vanilla server? It honestly seems like there aren't that many people left. Would official legacy servers bring them back? Doubtful, if there aren't even that many people playing on free private servers.

Balance changes, really? That should be the last line of defense since they are all horrible, compared to Legacy.

That's subjective, really. Many classes were gimped, relegated to simply casting one spell during raids and some specs weren't even viable. The talent trees were a mess. Honestly, the Blizzard Devs didn't know what they were doing in Vanilla, and I'm surprised people think stuff like balance was so great at the time. Hell, even itemization was a mess.

Can't say. It's all hearsay, as you decide you should feel emotions, instead of the actual people involved.

Your entire argument seems to be 'I feel it was better before'.

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no, nothing is wrong with playing on private servers, ive played on a ton
the issue is when people come in and shit on blizzard for not making them
and saying it will make them "all the monies" well, how many people will play? for how long? on what kinda server? how much wil lthey pay? will that be enough?

will the server be progressive? if so at what rate?
will it be stationary? if so at what patch?
what bugs will they fix? some "define" the game?
will they add QoL like tmog, new player models, updated visual affects, more graveyards, more out of combat regen?
will they allow wow tokens?
will they make it part of our normal sub, or not?
will they allow us to pay using wow tokens from the main game?
how many realms will they make?
what expansion do people want?
vanilla?
BC?
Wrath?
Cata?
Mop?
Wod?
(there is a few popular mop servers out there, and atleast a few wod ones)


all of these things, every single person will give a differant version of what they want, and thats the issue blizz is having, what kind of server do they make...

with current private servers people have choices, hundreds, each slightly differant, giving them the perfect choice of what they want... but blizz cant do that... they would need to make 1 or 2 max... so they cant do it all... and thats one of the major issues


WHAT do the players want
and will it make them money

those are the 2 main things holding them back
if they were easy, simple questions, they would allready have announced them, this is what people forget, this is a mulit million dollar decision, its not something that can be made in weeks

I think you hit the nail on the head, really.

[FelPlague]

You said a lot of stuff but I really wanted to point something out, the majority of Quality of Life changes were asked for by the community at the time. Not everyone enjoyed running to a dungeon, for example. You make it sound like Blizzard pushed these changes onto people when in fact it was something that many people wanted. I'm not sure why you are talking on behalf of every player during Vanilla, but you are simply wrong.



Again, you would be hard pressed to say that the majority of people who enjoyed Vanilla WoW would return. Look at the numbers themselves. There were what, around 7 million people playing during Vanilla? How many people are playing on every single private Vanilla server? It honestly seems like there aren't that many people left. Would official legacy servers bring them back? Doubtful, if there aren't even that many people playing on free private servers.



That's subjective, really. Many classes were gimped, relegated to simply casting one spell during raids and some specs weren't even viable. The talent trees were a mess. Honestly, the Blizzard Devs didn't know what they were doing in Vanilla, and I'm surprised people think stuff like balance was so great at the time. Hell, even itemization was a mess.



Your entire argument seems to be 'I feel it was better before'.

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I think you hit the nail on the head, really.

thank you, ive said it before but then people completely ignore it and go "WELL I WANT THIS, AND THATS WHAT BLIZZ SHOULD MAKE, AND IF THEY DONT THEY ARE ASSHOLES"

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All opinion on your part, thanks for your biased commentary.

This is true. New audiences don't adapt, and the old audiences become disgusted with changes, ah-hem, expectations.

If Blizzard does nothing, the net loss will be below gains, or in other words, negative.

Why be obtuse? polls can be found. There is no final word, because polls are split. Nobody can agree.

Legacy fans don't want QoL chances, least of all balance changes. Balance changes, really? That should be the last line of defense since they are all horrible, compared to Legacy.

QoL changes such as Looking-for-dungeon .. keep em, pls. We do not want them, your mess, not Legacy fan's mess.

i.e. destroying lore.

That loyal fanbase is still here. They are not playing retail. They did not leave.

Can't say. It's all hearsay, as you decide you should feel emotions, instead of the actual people involved.



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You used to defend only quality posts, not just anything and everything. Ohh ..

for a loyal fanbase to be loyal... that means they need to still be playing...

thats like saying a loyal lover leaves you for your brother, they still love you, and want you to be better, but theyre just fucking your brother cause its sorta like you but better right? loyal!

QoL does not mean looking for dungeons
it means stuff like higher out of combat regen
more graveyards
maybe earlier mounting like 20,40, and 60
newer models
some fixes like making pets work like the new ones with how aggressive, defensive and passive work now
stuff like the higher camera distance, and maybe easier to obtain soul shards

all things that dont ruin the games experiance, but make it less painful to do certain things


we have so many issues to overcome
as i said before

"and saying it will make them "all the monies" well, how many people will play? for how long? on what kinda server? how much wil lthey pay? will that be enough?

will the server be progressive? if so at what rate?
will it be stationary? if so at what patch?
what bugs will they fix? some "define" the game?
will they add QoL like tmog, new player models, updated visual affects, more graveyards, more out of combat regen?
will they allow wow tokens?
will they make it part of our normal sub, or not?
will they allow us to pay using wow tokens from the main game?
how many realms will they make?
what expansion do people want?
vanilla?
BC?
Wrath?
Cata?
Mop?
Wod?
(there is a few popular mop servers out there, and atleast a few wod ones)


all of these things, every single person will give a differant version of what they want, and thats the issue blizz is having, what kind of server do they make...

with current private servers people have choices, hundreds, each slightly differant, giving them the perfect choice of what they want... but blizz cant do that... they would need to make 1 or 2 max... so they cant do it all... and thats one of the major issues


WHAT do the players want
and will it make them money

those are the 2 main things holding them back
if they were easy, simple questions, they would allready have announced them, this is what people forget, this is a mulit million dollar decision, its not something that can be made in weeks"


and why would people pay to play when they can play for free, yes the majority will but there is still that minority that rather play a private server cause its free

[Ehuehuecopter]

Good Lord Plague, arent you tired of explaining to those donkeys?


edit : typo, i meant monkeys

[RickJamesLich]

That is not something that happens often enough to be considered. "Oh, I finally got that piece of gear I wanted. Now I can finally unsub." I doubt anyone says that.

"That is not something that happens often enough to be considered"..... that pretty much sums up this entire debate on whether or not players would still use private servers compared to legacy because they are free lol. As for how many players actually do this? I dunno, but judging by how WoD went, I bet a lot.

Actually, it is exclusive to the free trial, considering that, for retail, new PvP gear and seasons, and new raids and gear for PvE are implemented after one comes to a close.

Sure, if you're willing to wait like 15 months, you can get upgrades, otherwise it remains very similar to the level 20 free account.

Just because it isn't to you doesn't mean it's not integral to anyone else.

This is a downward dog level of stretch. Obviously the free version of wow is not as much fun, but it does retain the core stuff that players are looking for. I'm not disagreeing that it sucks, but surely if retail is "better", it seems pretty clear that a lot of the Nost fans would be back there and playing it for free right now. Assuming these people just don't feel like paying of course. We haven't seen this happen though.

Ten percent... of an already small percentage of people that left the game over the years (because "the game sucks now" is just one of many reasons one could have), I'd hardly call it a "massive success".

Tens of millions have left wow.... I wouldn't be surprised if the game has lost over 50 million subs since retail if you really add up all of those numbers. 10% of that would already be well beyond even what the Nost fan boys would think a legacy server is capable of. We've already seen the extremely small number of vanilla fans generate a very big buzz, there's no reason to believe that legacy servers wouldn't be popular outside of people with bias opinions on the matter.

First: could stop breaking the rules and naming illegal servers, please? Second: The influx of players is meaningless. What matters is the retention of players. It doesn't matter if we have ten million players flock to official legacy servers, if, by the end of the month, only a few dozen remain.

Everyone already knows what server this thread is about lol. It's not like it's a big secret anymore. The game has lots it's appeal to MMO players, while many of us have grown up, got real lifes, jobs, kids, etc.... we still have time for video games. During all of vanilla, the subs never went downwards, only sky rocketing upwards, so the idea that people would leave relatively fast is absurd.

"Common sense" dictates that just because they paid for it in the past, it doesn't necessarily mean that they'd pay up again. Especially if said product is not 100% what they want.

If this is true, there should be some wildly popular Legion private servers out there, right? Right?

A "point" you have asserted, but never proved it to be anything other than your opinion.

There is nothing that would suggest otherwise though. If what you're saying is true, we should be seeing some highly successful private servers that mimic Legion out there.

No. It doesn't. People change over time. You're making assertions as fact based on nothing but your own bias, here.

This is just silly. You really think that there are going to be avid wow players out there that 10 years later can no longer afford to pay when they are more likely to have jobs? Let's guess your next argument.... "You don't know their employment rates!"

And that didn't shut up people from talking about said servers, making new thread after new thread after the previous ones were shut down. And they remained up for longer than "just five minutes." Mods aren't all-knowing and all-present.

As someone that contributed to spreading the good word, yes most of the stuff was taken down within about 5 minutes lol. I've had some success on the offical blizzard forums though with keeping the posts up a little bit longer though, but I'm pretty sure even you can agree that Nost received almost no advertisements or publicity before it was shut down.

That was back in 2004, when Blizzard was nowhere near the gaming juggernaut they are today.

If that was enough for them to consider the game profitable, it seems pretty clear that legacy servers, which are much cheaper, can turn a profit as well. Let us also remember the reason they became a juggernaut - Vanilla WoW.

I love baseless assertions like that, that fly in the fact of what Blizzard themselves tell us about the implementation of legacy servers...

We know it's not difficult and we know blizzard has told some lies along the way. They've even admitted since that they do have the source code.

[Bellabel]

Different strokes for different folks. A fanbase exist for Legacy servers from vanilla through Wrath incidentally that was the largest uptick in wow players. If Legacy gets announced and follows the old time line, Legacy will have more than enough to dictate its cost.

[Eleccybubb]

Different strokes for different folks. A fanbase exist for Legacy servers from vanilla through Wrath incidentally that was the largest uptick in wow players. If Legacy gets announced and follows the old time line, Legacy will have more than enough to dictate its cost.

Just because a fanbase exists does not mean they are "true fans" as someone has stated. That is total garbage. A true fan is someone who loves the game, has a passion for it but does not blindly defend it imo.

[Relapses]

Just because a fanbase exists does not mean they are "true fans" as someone has stated. That is total garbage. A true fan is someone who loves the game, has a passion for it but does not blindly defend it imo.

Nah man, true fans argue for 1,800 pages about what Blizzard is refusing to give them, refer to it as an inalienable right and insult the intelligence of any rational human being by creating an infinite number of shitty arguments in favor of their precious Legacy realms.

[alabaster jones]

I'm vaguely aware of some sort of not naming the classic server you're playing on rule... but I've got to say that a certain event on a certain server today left me impressed with the sheer amount of players in small areas that the server can handle. I'd seen videos of mass world pvp on the server before, but it doesn't really hit home until you're in the thick of it and you realise that when this many players were in the one area back in 2005, the server and you would really be chugging, right up until you disconnected. Seeing the same thing on a much bigger scale play out smoothly and in real time was kind of surreal. Again, very impressed.

Infracted: Off-topic/derailing. We are not discussing private servers and what happens on them. {MoanaLisa}

[Relapses]

What's also impressive is how you guys cannot for the life of you stop breaking the forum's rules to gloat about the very thing you've been told, repeatedly, to stop talking about. It's almost like you want the thread to be closed.

[Traveler Voltin]

What's also impressive is how you guys cannot for the life of you stop breaking the forum's rules to gloat about the very thing you've been told, repeatedly, to stop talking about. It's almost like you want the thread to be closed.

well i want them to keep doing it so it does get closed.

[Deleted]

I'm vaguely aware of some sort of not naming the classic server you're playing on rule... but I've got to say that a certain event on a certain server today left me impressed with the sheer amount of players in small areas that the server can handle. I'd seen videos of mass world pvp on the server before, but it doesn't really hit home until you're in the thick of it and you realise that when this many players were in the one area back in 2005, the server and you would really be chugging, right up until you disconnected. Seeing the same thing on a much bigger scale play out smoothly and in real time was kind of surreal. Again, very impressed.

Did Kazzak get killed ?

[Ielenia]

As for how many players actually do this? I dunno, but judging by how WoD went, I bet a lot.

WoD's failure was the severe lack of endgame content, both PvE and PvP. You had nothing to do but manage your garrison and sometimes raid as endgame for PvE.

Sure, if you're willing to wait like 15 months, you can get upgrades, otherwise it remains very similar to the level 20 free account.

Funny. Legion isn't out for six months, and they already launched upgrades, by releasing Karazhan, and will soon release more upgrades, in the form of the Nighthold. Whereas, again, the trial account will remain the same unless you start paying.

This is a downward dog level of stretch. Obviously the free version of wow is not as much fun, but it does retain the core stuff that players are looking for.

Oh, this is rich. What is it that it retain that people want? Not being able to go above level 20? not being able to form parties? Not being able to join guilds? Not being able to level professions past 100?

I'm not disagreeing that it sucks, but surely if retail is "better", it seems pretty clear that a lot of the <criminals> fans would be back there and playing it for free right now. Assuming these people just don't feel like paying of course. We haven't seen this happen though.

Because no one wants to have their characters stuck at level 20 forever, unable to progress and even come close to endgame content.

Tens of millions have left wow....

Yes, "tens of millions have left WoW", but "tens of millions" did not leave WoW for the same reason. I imagine that the portion of those people who left who chose "because WoW is no longer like vanilla" or "because the game sucks now" as a reason to leave are but a small fraction of those. And I imagine a good portion of that small percentage has just moved on. Face it: you're talking about about a small percentage of a small percentage of players that left.

Everyone already knows what server this thread is about lol. It's not like it's a big secret anymore.

You obviously don't:

The thread is now solely about Blizzard and whether or not they should establish legacy/pristine servers, what those servers might look like, and speculation on whether or not they would be worth Blizzard's trouble.

The thread is not about private servers and in fact, apart from me telling you this, the topic of them never needs to come up. It's no longer part of this discussion.

The thread started off in a different place but this is where it is now. If we can't stick to that--which increasingly looks as if people will not--we will likely close the thread which is now being very heavily moderated in case you haven't noticed.

Hope that provides some clarity.

Moderation Note: I thought I was pretty clear. No. We don't need to even bring private servers up. You can make your points without them. They violate Blizzard copyrights and have traditionally been off-limits for the site. We are returning to that. PM me if it's still not clear to you. {MoanaLisa}

During all of vanilla, the subs never went downwards, only sky rocketing upwards, so the idea that people would leave relatively fast is absurd.

Different times. WoW didn't have even half the number of competitors it has today. Nowadays we have a new MMO or a new game being launched almost every week.

If this is true, there should be some wildly popular Legion private servers out there, right? Right?

I really don't see the connection you're trying to make, here. You're not making sense.

There is nothing that would suggest otherwise though.

And there is nothing that would support it, either, other than your opinion. You have given us nothing to back up your claims other than your opinions.

This is just silly. You really think that there are going to be avid wow players out there that 10 years later can no longer afford to pay when they are more likely to have jobs? Let's guess your next argument.... "You don't know their employment rates!"

Wow. That is honestly all you got with 'people change over time'? How about having a family? A wife/husband and kids, plus their daily activities, leaving them little time to play an online game, much less one so demanding as vanilla WoW? Or how about simply have moved on from MMOs and prefer to play FPS or video-games, instead? Or how about someone who now has to work two jobs, leaving him with no time to play online games that demand heavy time investments to even begin to be 'fun'?

As someone that contributed to spreading the good word,

Someone who willingly broke the rules, to be exact. There's no 'good word', there.

If that was enough for them to consider the game profitable, it seems pretty clear that legacy servers, which are much cheaper, can turn a profit as well.

PROVE IT. Show us your math that proves that legacy servers are not only profitable, but cheaper than retail.

Let us also remember the reason they became a juggernaut - Vanilla WoW.

No. The reason they became a juggernaut was, as follows: Rock'n'Roll Racing, Warcraft 1, 2 and 3, Diablo 1 and 2, Blackthorne, The Lost Vikings, and Starcraft. 'Vanilla WoW' was built upon the foundation laid by the previous Warcraft games.

We know it's not difficult

PROVE IT. I'm tired of people like you making dumb, unfounded assertions and stating them as fact without having a single shred of evidence to back it up.

and we know blizzard has told some lies along the way.

What lies? Come on, show me some of those lies. Back up your claims.

[Kyanion]

As someone that contributed to spreading the good word, yes most of the stuff was taken down within about 5 minutes lol. I've had some success on the offical blizzard forums though with keeping the posts up a little bit longer though, but I'm pretty sure even you can agree that ~snip~ received almost no advertisements or publicity before it was shut down.

You sound like a Bible thumper trying to streetside preach when communities have rules/laws preventing such things from being done but show up on a Saturday night to yell at people that are going out to do their own thing. Those types of people were viewed as a public nuisance and sure seems to be the same case here when it comes to advertising on forums.

You willingly admit you have no problem going to mmo-champ and Blizzard's forums to start threads to try and advertise despite there being rules against it. I view you with the same scorn I do as streetside preachers and people that stick fliers on your car when you are shopping.

[alabaster jones]

What's also impressive is how you guys cannot for the life of you stop breaking the forum's rules to gloat about the very thing you've been told, repeatedly, to stop talking about. It's almost like you want the thread to be closed.

Gloat? What? I've played the whole legacy thing right down the middle so far. I hadn't checked out the particular server before now, I didn't refer to a server by name, as is the rule on page 1, made my post as general and unoffensive as possible (talking about server tech/capacity) and I'm posting in the thread dedicated to the topic.

I've been as careful and respectful as I possibly can, I didn't even post an opinion for or against, I haven't before now, and wasn't planning to. I'm not even sure how I could possibly be more reasonable or diplomatic than I have been. Shit, I feel like this whole thread has turned us vs them and I'm being forced to take a side here, and I don't want to. If there were more specific discussion rules that have come into place since I last posted here three(?) weeks ago, then I apologise (again), but I don't follow this thread day to day.

[Relapses]

Gloat? What? I've played the whole legacy thing right down the middle so far. I hadn't checked out the particular server before now, I didn't refer to a server by name, as is the rule on page 1, made my post as general and unoffensive as possible (talking about server tech/capacity) and I'm posting in the thread dedicated to the topic.

I've been as careful and respectful as I possibly can, I didn't even post an opinion for or against, I haven't before now, and wasn't planning to. I'm not even sure how I could possibly be more reasonable or diplomatic than I have been. Shit, I feel like this whole thread has turned us vs them and I'm being forced to take a side here, and I don't want to. If there were more specific discussion rules that have come into place since I last posted here three(?) weeks ago, then I apologise (again), but I don't follow this thread day to day.

Nobody's forcing you to take a side. You can be for Legacy without discussing private realms. The post above yours has clarification from a Mod about what can and cannot be spoken about... even being vague and not referencing anything, saying something like "an event on a private server" is an example of something that is against the rules.

[alabaster jones]

Nobody's forcing you to take a side. You can be for Legacy without discussing private realms. The post above yours has clarification from a Mod about what can and cannot be spoken about... even being vague and not referencing anything, saying something like "an event on a private server" is an example of something that is against the rules.

You're telling me to read a post that didn't exist when I was typing up my reply, and that even non-specifically alluding to what may or may not be a thing is now off-limits.

[RickJamesLich]

You sound like a Bible thumper trying to streetside preach when communities have rules/laws preventing such things from being done but show up on a Saturday night to yell at people that are going out to do their own thing. Those types of people were viewed as a public nuisance and sure seems to be the same case here when it comes to advertising on forums.

You willingly admit you have no problem going to mmo-champ and Blizzard's forums to start threads to try and advertise despite there being rules against it. I view you with the same scorn I do as streetside preachers and people that stick fliers on your car when you are shopping.

It's all good man. Everyone has to get their troll on a bit. The cause of Nost is righteous though, once you become a believer you do not go back.

[Traveler Voltin]

It's all good man. Everyone has to get their troll on a bit. The cause of Nost is righteous though, once you become a believer you do not go back.

no. its not. its a selfish tantrum.

[Relapses]

You're telling me to read a post that didn't exist when I was typing up my reply, and that even non-specifically alluding to what may or may not be a thing is now off-limits.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I didn't make the rules. For what it's worth, I agree with you.

[Deleted]

So one thing i have no clear, am maybe u people can clarify to me. Basically playing on private servers is also breaking the TOS that u "sign" when you are playing retail WoW, meaning that if u break the TOS u can get ban from the game. So i've been broking this TOS since 2010 basically, almost 7 years now, publising of the forums the servers i play, etc etc, also saying it INSIDE the game, making people also come and play with me. And NEVER i get a ban from Blizzard.

¿Why? Is maybe cause i'm PAYING for play ALSO retail and they don't care a fuck if i pay retail every month? What's the deal here?

Cause if that is the deal, i would be veeeery surprised with Blizzard "policies" on this thing, talking here a dude that been playing the game since February 16th 2005, almost 12 years now, paying every month and expansion.

Why i'm not banned if y PUBLICY this servers on official forums and inside the game? Why?