How are retribution paladin feeling ?

[Maduk]

where our only snare can be dispelled and has a THIRTY SECOND COOLDOWN.

That's why you mostly spec law and order.
The 3s snare on BoJ is just awesome.

[Schattenlied]

That's why you mostly spec law and order.
The 3s snare on BoJ is just awesome.

And still not nearly enough against any class with even a tiny bit more mobility than us.

[Maduk]

And still not nearly enough against any class with even a tiny bit more mobility than us.

It's enough for all classes that are not based around mobility.
We just lack a talent that makes BoF and steed better.

[Schattenlied]

It's enough for all classes that are not based around mobility.
We just lack a talent that makes BoF and steed better.

There are exactly 2 classes that don't have enough mobility to simply walk away from us in a fight, and that's DKs and Warlocks... Everyone else can simply say "na, I don't feel like fighting you" or "I'm low on health, I'm just going to skip away and let my healer top me off without risk of death before I go back in"... God forbid you are trying to kill a healer, the only one we can even pressure is Holy Paladins, and that's because their mobility is just as bad as ours.

[Maduk]

There are exactly 2 classes that don't have enough mobility to simply walk away from us in a fight, and that's DKs and Warlocks...

And Priests, other Paladins, Hunters are also easy to catch and Warriors. Shamans mobility is good and bad. Leaves us with Mages, Druids, DHs, Monks and Rogues which all need their mobility to be playable.

"na, I don't feel like fighting you" or "I'm low on health, I'm just going to skip away and let my healer top me off without risk of death before I go back in"...

Unless its a ranged class, you can do this too.

God forbid you are trying to kill a healer, the only one we can even pressure is Holy Paladins, and that's because their mobility is just as bad as ours.

We can pressure every healer except Monk and Druid (with wings ofc).
But I'm playing BE, soo that statement is kinda biased

[Deleted]

Ret paladins are pretty good, a very solid dps class, especially in pvp. Players often tend to underestimate their own class and overestimate everyone else (like the mobility issue, dodging the fact that ret paladin is pretty damn powerful in other elements of pvp such as defensives, burst, utility, stun)

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However if you think that frost DK is too spammy and faceroll, ret paladin is the same style. I'm talking about the dps rotation, its even worse than fDK. Of course if you enjoy the utility and resilience of ret paladin it might be good enough but don't expect to have loads of fun with ret dps...

I think frost DK is more enjoyable because the attacks feel more brutal and the visuals are pretty cool.

[Dawon]

Fair enough thanks I'm currently debating what to play when I can log back in on Friday, struggling with dh, dk and pally. Back to the drawing board!

If you wanna play melee, you can never go wrong with a warrior.. they'll always be top of the pack.. along with their counterpart mages, if going ranged... Buffs/nerfs goes up/down but these 2 classes are Blizzy's fav babies and will always be in a good or top spot!

[Morally Grey Storm]

And Priests, other Paladins, Hunters are also easy to catch and Warriors. Shamans mobility is good and bad. Leaves us with Mages, Druids, DHs, Monks and Rogues which all need their mobility to be playable.



Unless its a ranged class, you can do this too.



We can pressure every healer except Monk and Druid (with wings ofc).
But I'm playing BE, soo that statement is kinda biased

What the feth are you talking about?
Hunters are easy to catch since when?
Feth, even a priest can actually kite you.

Classes you listed requiring mobility to be playable... Are we not?

Then there's one thing when you can't catch someone, and it's an entirely new gaping bleeding prolapsed tentacled Rectum from Hell when you can't escape.
You can't escape monks, durids and DK's.
You just don't.


Which is great and very much balanced, of course.
We don't want Ret to be capable and viable, much more solid and enjoyable spec.

[Loeve]

Why not try a fury warrior? I feel paladin is slower, boring attacks compared to warrior, less mobility. Only nice thing about palas are they wear plate and have cool sets :P

[Maduk]

What the feth are you talking about?
Hunters are easy to catch since when?

They are easy to catch since Legion. But this will change when all specs get the traps again.

Feth, even a priest can actually kite you.

Eh, how?

Classes you listed requiring mobility to be playable... Are we not?

They require the mobility because they can be shut down quite easily, so they either need the opener to CC or the range to do damage.

Then there's one thing when you can't catch someone, and it's an entirely new gaping bleeding prolapsed tentacled Rectum from Hell when you can't escape.
You can't escape monks, durids and DK's.
You just don't.

Sure as hell you can escape DKs (as long as he istn't UH).
Monks are not that much of a problem because you can beat them in melee. If he gets away, just heal up. Rinse and repeat.
Druids are different, but every class has this problem with them.

You forgot the real problem: Frostmages. Because of them, we need something changed, like undispellable BoF or steed with snare immunity

We don't want Ret to be capable and viable, much more solid and enjoyable spec.

I just would like more sustained, so we could be more viable outside of wings. Without wings we ware pretty shit, unless you get lucky with the crits.
They just should remove the fucking mastery crap and make our template better.

[Schattenlied]

And Priests

they can dispel our snare at will, as well as dispel our BoF, and have have reasonably short CD speed boosts.

other Paladins

Yes, that's a given, thus why I didnt feel the need to mention it, obviously if we, paladins, have bad mobility, other people playing the same class/spec do too.

Hunters are also easy to catch

When they kite walking backwards and are stupid enough to disengage before we use Hand of Hindrance, sure, otherwise they have a good shot at killing us.

Warriors

Heroic Leap would like a word with you, especially Fury warriors, who get 3 uses of that shit and can clear nearly the entire middle of WSG in a couple GCDs.

Shamans mobility is good and bad

ghost wolf's reduction of snare effectivness and their ability to purge our freedom and snare us lets them easily walk away, and if they are Resto/Ele they have Gust of Wind (med range forward leap) on top of that with only a 15s CD.

Unless its a ranged class, you can do this too.

Only against other paladins, everyone else can easily keep pace with us when we try to break away.

We can pressure every healer except Monk and Druid.

Nope, because they can all get away from us rather easily if they aren't a complete baddie.

[Maduk]

they can dispel our snare at will, as well as dispel our BoF, and have have reasonably short CD speed boosts.

Only on PWS if they spec for it.
That's still negated through law and order.
They also have only Mind Flay as a snare. How can a Priest just go away from you?

When they kite walking backwards and are stupid enough to disengage before we use Hand of Hindrance, sure, otherwise they have a good shot at killing us.

You said it yourself:
Don't use Hand of Hindrance before he uses Disengage = Profit.

Heroic Leap would like a word with you, especially Fury warriors, who get 3 uses of that shit and can clear nearly the entire middle of WSG in a couple GCDs.

1. Fury Warriors are bad.
2. Steed > Leap

ghost wolf's reduction of snare effectivness and their ability to purge our freedom and snare us lets them easily walk away, and if they are Resto/Ele they have Gust of Wind (med range forward leap) on top of that.

Sure thats annoying, but Frostshock still has a really low range.

Only against other paladins, everyone else can easily keep pace with us when we try to break away.
Nope, because they can all get away from us rather easily if they aren't a complete baddie.

If you let a healer except Monk or Druid get away, I don't know who's the baddie.

[Schattenlied]

Only on PWS if they spec for it.
That's still negated through law and order.
They also have only Mind Flay as a snare. How can a Priest just go away from you?

Disc has Angelic Feather and Shining force, knock back, dispel freedom - you have to steed to get back in range, they fear you off and feather away dispelling HoH whenever it is cast.

Not sure what summons those little shadow minions that SP has but they also snare with their mind flay, and half of them are bugged and ignore BoF's snare suppression.

You said it yourself:
Don't use Hand of Hindrance before he uses Disengage = Profit.

Except that without it, they can just run away, it's lose/lose... The 3s uptime vs 6s downtime of HoH we get from Law and Order is outclassed and then some by the constant effect of concussive shot... Once BoF runs out they get away quite easily without the need of disengage.

1. Fury Warriors are bad.

They aren't quite as bad as they used to be, they have their uses.

2. Steed > Leap

Steed covers maybe 3yd more than heroic leap does in it's cast, but heroic leap finishes in 1 second, and the remaining 2 seconds of normal run speed to match DS' travel time covers more ground than steed has over leap's initial cast by about 6yd, without even using the +70% runspeed after leap talent that also reduces it's CD by 15s... And Heroic leap is not hindered in any way by snares.

Leap>Steed

Sure thats annoying, but Frostshock still has a really low range.

In what fucked up world do you live where 40 yards considered "really low range"? 10-15 is really low, 20 is low, 30 is average, 40 is a lot.

If you let a healer except Monk or Druid get away, I don't know who's the baddie.

I went over the tools they have available, they counter all ours with some wiggle room, without anyone trying to peel for them, maybe you've only fought shit healers with shit teammates who don't know what peeling is.

[Deleted]

In PVE normal/hc I'm always top 3 dps - don't do mythic raids anymore so can't say.

Mobility is fine in PVE (thank you double pony charge!) and survivability is good without DPS loss if you get the Justicar's Vengeance talent (eye for an eye is too situational and RNG based to make it useful IMHO).

For PVP the key is to know when to shield up and use 'freedom abilities' - once you pop Crusade no-one (except another pally) is likely to survive the sustained dps assault. Pop Crusade/Bubble and you are literally a wrecking ball.

Bu then I've been playing Ret since I started playing WoW (CotC patch in Wrath) and not a FotM player either.

This, ladies and gentlemen is why people that only raid normal/heroic have zero insight about PvE.

Eye for an Eye is a BIG defensive CD for mechanics (ex: Ursoc mythic hello there). JV is a big DPS loss since it synergies with.. nothing (artifact traits, talents, legendary, etc etc). Its only use outside PvP is casual questing.
And what? Crusade in PvP? I don't even.......

[Deleted]

This, ladies and gentlemen is why people that only raid normal/heroic have zero insight about PvE

On the other hand this is an example of how illiterate morons process information! What part of 'don't do mythic raids anymore so can't say' did you not read?

[Maduk]

Disc has Angelic Feather and Shining force, knock back, dispel freedom - you have to steed to get back in range, they fear you off and feather away dispelling HoH whenever it is cast.

Ah, feather, forgot about that.
Knockback and fear are on 1 minute CDs.
Fear can be shortened with BoS. Steed is better than the knockback.

Except that without it, they can just run away, it's lose/lose... The 3s uptime vs 6s downtime of HoH we get from Law and Order is outclassed and then some by the constant effect of concussive shot... Once BoF runs out they get away quite easily without the need of disengage.

Never had that problem. My HoH has like 80% uptime thanks to BoW + Haste.
If the Hunter wants to stay in meleerange until HoH runs out, he will get destroyed.

They aren't quite as bad as they used to be, they have their uses.

They are to squishy to be of use (no Defensive Stance).

Steed covers maybe 3yd more than heroic leap does in it's cast, but heroic leap finishes in 1 second, and the remaining 2 seconds of normal run speed to match DS' travel time covers more ground than steed has over leap's initial cast by about 6yd, without even using the +70% runspeed after leap talent that also reduces it's CD by 15s... And Heroic leap is not hindered in any way by snares.

Leap>Steed

This isn't a running contest.
If he jumps to point A, I just run around it, or if it's a 1on1, I run through him when he leaps and he gained nothing.
If he happens to be near me when on steed, HoJ/HoH/BoJ do me a favor to keep him away.
Nobody will get the Leap talent instead of Defensive Stance.

In what fucked up world do you live where 40 yards considered "really low range"? 10-15 is really low, 20 is low, 30 is average, 40 is a lot.

In a world where Legion didn't happen. Didn't know it had been increased. Never got FS'd from this far away.

I went over the tools they have available, they counter all ours with some wiggle room, without anyone trying to peel for them, maybe you've only fought shit healers with shit teammates who don't know what peeling is.

Maybe, maybe not.
Teammates? I thought this was a 1on1 discussion?
With Teammates this discussion makes no sense

[Morally Grey Storm]

In what way is haste any relevant to HoH uptime?

[Maduk]

In what way is haste any relevant to HoH uptime?

Haste reduces the CD from BoJ which applies HoH for 3s if you have chosen the Law and Order honor talent.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Haste reduces the CD from BoJ which applies HoH for 3s if you have chosen the Law and Order honor talent.

I'm fairly certain there's this new thing called stat template, which gracefully bestows us with what, 17 haste or so.
I would assume it helps a lot with Hoh uptime.

[Deleted]

Just to put my thoughts on the general "feeling" - It's defnitely worse than it was in WoD imo. True, we were almost half-ranged spec in WoD, but the rotation felt so natural, the effects of most spells looked good and all that. As much as i like the new melee animations, they screwed up on the spell animations for retri at least, divine storm feels meh and you even downgrade it further once you unlock the DS travelling trait. Not to mention you gotta avoid specific haste %, otherwise you'll have deaf spots in rotation (at least that happens to me sometimes).