DK Viability?

[Deleted]

I must add one thing about DK's:

You need to be above 880 before all the fun stuff, as other classes, such as enh shamans, can be 860 and still match you(when you are like 875). The gap when everyone is above 880, is much smaller compared to being below, as the scaling is a bit odd for DK's.

[Nakotsu]

Unholy was the great spec until it got nerfed and frost got buffed, so frost is now the best dps class.


blood dk's are excellent as well, there is really not much to say?.


go frost if dps, go blood if tank. DK's are decent.

Well as a DK Blood boss I gotta say legion pre patch killed it. Cant stand the DK Blood rotation. It got so bad that they werent listening and took all the defenses away they finally gave back icebound fortitude, but even attempting to play a DK after playing a vengeful DH I can say Id prob never go back. Tank DH are more powerful in movement and they have more personal healing even if they get hit like a truck each time. That being the only thing thats stressful about DH tanks other then blizzard nerfing the dps down its still pretty viable.
I dont like the DK tanks Death strike being on runic power and the way it heals now... But these are just my feelings after maining 3 DK tanks since the conception of them. But the rotation they have now is terribad.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

NO DK'S SUCK.

The community decided so.

On a more serious note - Im a fan of winner mentality. That means, whatever is undertuned, will get tuned. So, losers who rolled a shaman now from a DK, will get the nose later on(also people who tends to quit often).

Just saying(that is exactly how it is). You can't get 1 valid point from these people, that will help you over long term.

Play whatever thats fun for you. And both Frost/UH is really fun(for me at least). Blood is kinda trouble but gets the job done. I see only advantage with Blood in specific fights(Il'gynoth is good example). UH with double hook is another example. If they deal low baseline, be fine with that. People still exceel as you see. See the enjoyment in that, rather than playing the flavour of month.

I still beat people with my UH DK(regardless the opinion of crybabies). Do you know how satisfying it is, knowing that you troll people in random PuG's, without saying a word?

I agree with basically everything this guy said

[VanishO2]

the bracers nerf is barely a nerf at all....and as was said to frost players during beta...things aren't final...when it's a release candidate and nothing happens then you can bitch.

Not "bitching" when they propose said changes is what screwed DKs for Legion's launch. In fact, any class will be screwed if you don't give the feedback when they're thinking of doing bad changes.

[RuneDK]

Not "bitching" when they propose said changes is what screwed DKs for Legion's launch. In fact, any class will be screwed if you don't give the feedback when they're thinking of doing bad changes.

I was being facetious. However that's the response a lot of long time and good frost dks got during beta. So my give a shit factor for unholy is about zero. I want all the specs to be buffed but don't care if they don't touch unholy.

- - - Updated - - -

NO DK'S SUCK.

The community decided so.

On a more serious note - Im a fan of winner mentality. That means, whatever is undertuned, will get tuned. So, losers who rolled a shaman now from a DK, will get the nose later on(also people who tends to quit often).

Just saying(that is exactly how it is). You can't get 1 valid point from these people, that will help you over long term.

Play whatever thats fun for you. And both Frost/UH is really fun(for me at least). Blood is kinda trouble but gets the job done. I see only advantage with Blood in specific fights(Il'gynoth is good example). UH with double hook is another example. If they deal low baseline, be fine with that. People still exceel as you see. See the enjoyment in that, rather than playing the flavour of month.

I still beat people with my UH DK(regardless the opinion of crybabies). Do you know how satisfying it is, knowing that you troll people in random PuG's, without saying a word?

To the bolded part...I didn't roll enhance because it did more damage. I chose enhance because it offers raid utility with bloodlust, the ability to be ranged dps if the guild is melee heavy for a fight and most importantly because of their mobility. I know your post isn't directed at me directly but figured I'd throw in why I chose to go shaman and it's not because the numbers are better. I played frost when it was the worst spec in the game and that didn't make me switch. Constantly feeling like you're snared isn't fun to me. Always playing catch up isn't fun to me. Therefor I chose to let go of my DK....that and the fact that DKs are notorious for starting an expansion strong and ending weak(which is pretty funny because unholy started the expansion relatively mediocre and frost weak and now it's the opposite which will speak volumes for the scaling problem the class obviously has as a whole come time we go to Argus.

[Deleted]

I was being facetious. However that's the response a lot of long time and good frost dks got during beta. So my give a shit factor for unholy is about zero. I want all the specs to be buffed but don't care if they don't touch unholy.

- - - Updated - - -



To the bolded part...I didn't roll enhance because it did more damage. I chose enhance because it offers raid utility with bloodlust, the ability to be ranged dps if the guild is melee heavy for a fight and most importantly because of their mobility. I know your post isn't directed at me directly but figured I'd throw in why I chose to go shaman and it's not because the numbers are better. I played frost when it was the worst spec in the game and that didn't make me switch. Constantly feeling like you're snared isn't fun to me. Always playing catch up isn't fun to me. Therefor I chose to let go of my DK....that and the fact that DKs are notorious for starting an expansion strong and ending weak(which is pretty funny because unholy started the expansion relatively mediocre and frost weak and now it's the opposite which will speak volumes for the scaling problem the class obviously has as a whole come time we go to Argus.

Why do you comment on a class, that you don't enjoy?

This is why, this community became such a bad place.

1)DK's ever since release, had thier part during world first kills(even during the last Mythic Helya kills).
2)DK's is topping the chart in 15+ and having one of the best comps for that.
3)It's OBVIOUS that DK's got whatever it takes(regardless of all that DPS, movement speed talk etc).

And it all sums up to one thing that frustrates me:
Why is this community so bad? Why can't people just let people enjoy thier time, just because YOU don't.

It's like people who opens a thread, only to write a goodbye message, because now they are having fun in LoL or something.

Please Blizz - don't ever make the DK's flavour of the month. Let good people become that, just when we see "THE WORST DPS SPEC"is picked by top guilds. It's entertaining.

[Deleted]

I'd just like to remind everyone that Strifeload's opinions are heavily biased due to 3 simple reasons:

a) He has the Unholy bis legendary (bracers), therefore, Unholy being undertuned isn't a big problem to him
b) He's not any sort of serious PVE player. Pretty sure a couple weeks ago he mentioned he had killed Heroic Nythendra in a pug as if it was an accomplishment.
c) Following b), this also means he is severely undergeared in the PVE scene, which makes the Unholy scaling issue seem less apparent to him.

So if by any chance, you want to be doing some sort of progression in an organized guild, you should re-evaluate your decision to pick DK, as right now, even if Frost damage is alright, it brings very little else to the table in terms of utility or movement. If all you do is LFR, just play whatever you like and enjoy.

And just to add, all you had to do was look at the 3rd post in this thread if you wanted an actual educated opinion:

Hold your horses stranger! DK Overall ain't that great. DK tanks are great for M+ for bad for raids. DK Dps is okay, but not amazing.

Kanj got World 3rd Mythic Helya kill as a Frost DK, first DK to do it in a legit way (since the others had their kills removed). When he says something like this, and you get no-names telling you that the DK world is perfect, you should probably re-think who to trust

Also, grats on the kill Kanj, very impressive, the video made it look smooth af

[Life-Binder]

again - good in M+, less good (or shall we say not very desirable) in raids

[Deleted]

I'd just like to remind everyone that Strifeload's opinions are heavily biased due to 3 simple reasons:

a) He has the Unholy bis legendary (bracers), therefore, Unholy being undertuned isn't a big problem to him
b) He's not any sort of serious PVE player. Pretty sure a couple weeks ago he mentioned he had killed Heroic Nythendra in a pug as if it was an accomplishment.
c) Following b), this also means he is severely undergeared in the PVE scene, which makes the Unholy scaling issue seem less apparent to him.

So if by any chance, you want to be doing some sort of progression in an organized guild, you should re-evaluate your decision to pick DK, as right now, even if Frost damage is alright, it brings very little else to the table in terms of utility or movement. If all you do is LFR, just play whatever you like and enjoy.

And just to add, all you had to do was look at the 3rd post in this thread if you wanted an actual educated opinion:



Kanj got World 3rd Mythic Helya kill as a Frost DK, first DK to do it in a legit way (since the others had their kills removed). When he says something like this, and you get no-names telling you that the DK world is perfect, you should probably re-think who to trust

Also, grats on the kill Kanj, very impressive, the video made it look smooth af

Back off now.

Ive been supporting top DK's(and DK's in general)and they have been accomplishing all kind of impressive stuff, ever since launch. Just don't come here and clap your small hands.

What you(and you alike)been doing is getting obsessed by some bracers, looking up on rankings and blame people who tries to build up a reliable community(because your point is legit).

Nobody is saying anything is perfect, but don't make it worse(just ask our friend, if any avg. raiders opnion is not enough for you).

[Hellrime]

Legion marks the first expac that I switched to Frost, I hated the playstyle in every iteration on previous offerings; I couldn't get with the 3 button spam, and Unholy arguably took a considerable bit more skill and thought to play well. However, this expansion Frost is close when it comes Icy Talons monitoring and choice. Death Knights are incredibly fun to play and viable in all content you mentioned. Unlike many are proposing above we also do well in a raiding environment until you get to cutting edge Mythic raiding pushes where we kind of fall behind, but the majority of the individuals commenting aren't doing that so I don't see where they're coming from.

In a nutshell, tl;dr, yes we are viable, we just aren't the first choice when it comes to pushing the content on release day.

[Deleted]

Legion marks the first expac that I switched to Frost, I hated the playstyle in every iteration on previous offerings; I couldn't get with the 3 button spam, and Unholy arguably took a considerable bit more skill and thought to play well. However, this expansion Frost is close when it comes Icy Talons monitoring and choice. Death Knights are incredibly fun to play and viable in all content you mentioned. Unlike many are proposing above we also do well in a raiding environment until you get to cutting edge Mythic raiding pushes where we kind of fall behind, but the majority of the individuals commenting aren't doing that so I don't see where they're coming from.

In a nutshell, tl;dr, yes we are viable, we just aren't the first choice when it comes to pushing the content on release day.

Appreciate your feedback.

And I agree 100%. UH is a lot more harder. Some are into that kind of stuff others are not. What I also seen is after you passed like 880-885+, the gap between other 880-885+ people is more tight(everyone can be competetive), compared to you being 880 and fighting a 865 shaman. The scaling is a thing, a bit odd.

[Deleted]

Back off now.

Ive been supporting top DK's(and DK's in general)and they have been accomplishing all kind of impressive stuff, ever since launch. Just don't come here and clap your small hands.

What you(and you alike)been doing is getting obsessed by some bracers, looking up on rankings and blame people who tries to build up a reliable community(because your point is legit).

Nobody is saying anything is perfect, but don't make it worse(just ask our friend, if any avg. raiders opnion is not enough for you).

That's some heavy goal post shifting, if I've ever seen some.

[Maxweii]

Back off now.

Ive been supporting top DK's(and DK's in general)and they have been accomplishing all kind of impressive stuff, ever since launch. Just don't come here and clap your small hands.

What you(and you alike)been doing is getting obsessed by some bracers, looking up on rankings and blame people who tries to build up a reliable community(because your point is legit).

Nobody is saying anything is perfect, but don't make it worse(just ask our friend, if any avg. raiders opnion is not enough for you).

Where were you when Clawing Shadows was proven to be a viable talent to use compared to Castigator then :P cus holy shit is the feedback on that still overwhelmingly negative

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Where were you when Clawing Shadows was proven to be a viable talent to use compared to Castigator then :P cus holy shit is the feedback on that still overwhelmingly negative

I mean kinda off target here, but could you explain why Clawing Shadow is viable compared to Castigator?

Cos I was trying to figure this out (cos Icy Veins mentions i should level with that talent), but when i look at it i honestly dont see the benefit of CS over Cas.

[Deleted]

We're definantly viable.

You won't be replaced as a DK because of your class alone in 99% of all guilds, as long as you prove your worth.

If you don't enjoy it because you're not top of meters all the time, reroll or wait faithfully like me. Some buff might arrive soon fingers crossed.

A lot of people are being overdramatic.

It's fair enough pointing out flaws in the class etc. but making goodbye threads and several 100+ pages long forum threads all filled with "Signed" is kinda pointless.

[Deleted]

Ill take kanj over an occasional hc raider, especially when kanj seems to agree with my own perceptions ofvmythic raiding on dks.

Frost is poor, unholy is even worse.

[Donimic]

Also, grats on the kill Kanj, very impressive, the video made it look smooth af

does he have a DK PoV kill video on YouTube or Twitch VoD? Would you mind linking it please?

[Deleted]

We're definantly viable.

You won't be replaced as a DK because of your class alone in 99% of all guilds, as long as you prove your worth.

If you don't enjoy it because you're not top of meters all the time, reroll or wait faithfully like me. Some buff might arrive soon fingers crossed.

A lot of people are being overdramatic.

It's fair enough pointing out flaws in the class etc. but making goodbye threads and several 100+ pages long forum threads all filled with "Signed" is kinda pointless.

Honestly, and I've expressed this opinion before, I don't mind not being top of the meters, my own big gripe with DK right now is the lack of mobility. Everything would be fine for me if not for the absolute atrocious mobility we have. If we were to get Death's March as it was in WoD back, you'd never see me complaining about Frost again, though I'd likely still say Unholy is shit because scaling. Movement is the only thing that makes me not enjoy DK as much as I would enjoy it otherwise.

I can definitely vouch for your 2nd line though, no guild will replace a DK just for being a DK, but at the same time, I don't think a progressing guild would go out of their way to bring one either. You just have to create the niche for yourself, but that's rather hard when you're already this far into a tier. My guild relies on me for a couple strats in this tier so far, and it does feel pretty good to be able to fill that niche (if anyone is interested, they rely on me for gripping and generally coordinating blob kills in Il'gynoth, and to blow up + slow the Wisps in Cenarius, both in Mythic difficulty).

does he have a DK PoV kill video on YouTube or Twitch VoD? Would you mind linking it please?

I've only seen the mage PoV, but that's probably a better PoV to watch the kill, unless you're strictly interested in seeing what he's doing during the fight. Melee aren't generally good PoVs.

[0verdose]

Frost is solid all around. From m+ to raiding and pvp. Unholy is only good if you are lucky enough to get the bracers. I was going to stay unh faithful until I switched to frost full time a few weeks ago. I have a weaker artifact but I'm still doing more damage than my unholy spec, and I play unholy better than I did frost. Now that I'm used to frosts playstyle as well, there is no competition. Frost got massively buffed, while unholy didn't. I don't know if this will change but I'm pretty sure frost will be the go to spec from now on. Unholy is in such a mess that I don't think blizzard wants to take the time to fix it. After a few weeks of bein frost, I really enjoy it. I like the consistent and better dps that frost can put out atm. I'm just not expecting any big changes on the unholy side from blizz, I have this feeling that the devs think the spec is fine, judging on their "no communication" approach to spec issues/changes.

[Deleted]

does he have a DK PoV kill video on YouTube or Twitch VoD? Would you mind linking it please?

Nah I don't record or stream.