Suramar Elven Armies; The Blood Elves rise!

[Zandalariprelate]

I'm pretty sure any elf is allowed to enter, after all, Lor'themar invited them back after the restoration of the Sunwell. Not to mention shit's all fucked up, considering it was Tyrande who spoke against the Helves joining the Alliance, and it was exactly the lack of support from the Alliance during WC3 that made them join the Horde in the first place.

Well the silver covenant with veressa are not allowed to enter in quel'thalas, maybe there are some of high elves who piligrim there because they are not part of any political faction

[Friendlyimmolation]

I'm pretty sure any elf is allowed to enter, after all, Lor'themar invited them back after the restoration of the Sunwell. Not to mention shit's all fucked up, considering it was Tyrande who spoke against the Helves joining the Alliance, and it was exactly the lack of support from the Alliance during WC3 that made them join the Horde in the first place.

Warcrimes shows Vereesa isnt allowed in Quel'thalas still, so it would make sense for the silver covenant to not be allowed either. The Helves that are allowed to come are probably from the hinterlands and from Outland.

[Cl4nK]

Warcrimes shows Vereesa isnt allowed in Quel'thalas still, so it would make sense for the silver covenant to not be allowed either. The Helves that are allowed to come are probably from the hinterlands and from Outland.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Veressa isn't allowed, but the Helves are. Gotta remember that Silver Covenant doesn't represent all elves, much like the Sunreaver don't represent the Belves.

However, it is strange, because Veressa and Halduron are all buddy buddy in the Hunter's Lodge.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Veressa isn't allowed, but the Helves are. Gotta remember that Silver Covenant doesn't represent all elves, much like the Sunreaver don't represent the Belves.

However, it is strange, because Veressa and Halduron are all buddy buddy in the Hunter's Lodge.

Haulduron does what he does if he thinks Quel'thalas is safer because of it, that doesnt mean Vereesa or her silver covenant are going to get a pass into Quel'thalas though. Especially with her and the SC's actions in MoP, they are lucky the magisters dont cut them off from the sunwell and send them back into dealing with the withdrawl.

[Cl4nK]

Haulduron does what he does if he thinks Quel'thalas is safer because of it, that doesnt mean Vereesa or her silver covenant are going to get a pass into Quel'thalas though. Especially with her and the SC's actions in MoP, they are lucky the magisters dont cut them off from the sunwell and send them back into dealing with the withdrawl.

Do they have the power to do it? Cuz if they do, I'd pull the trigger imediatelly and see how the so pure and innocent Helves deal with the withdrawl.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Do they have the power to do it? Cuz if they do, I'd pull the trigger imediatelly and see how the so pure and innocent Helves deal with the withdrawl.

They started to cut off Dar'khan but he killed them before they could finish, if Rommath and friends did it I'm sure as hell Vereesa and her friends wouldn't be in any position to stop them.

[Cl4nK]

#Doit

/10char

[Geldor]

now why do you think blizzard wrote it that way...

what do you think the perspective of the high elves would be in this situation? [we are talking about the silver covenant here right.. and it would be safe to assume they're not simply crazy]

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I think blizzard aren't that sloppy to make it purely political.. it is a significant enough philosophical difference for them to not only be a separate group, but a faction of the high elves, the Silver Covenant to be at war with the blood elves. Currently, it's more hatred than war, and Vereesa seems to be the generator of the hate, but her position is not without merit. But in Legion it has significantly shifted from the all out war. Although in 7.1 Liadrin's comment concerning Vereesa feels like blizzard re-igniting the conflict that seemed put to bed when we explored her in 7.0 ... either that or it is clear that Liadrin is not aware of Vereesa's softening towards them, because Vereesa is more annoyed at the kaldorei rather than the sin'dorei when you click on her. And if you add that to her very sin'dorei friendly behaviour in the hunter artifact quest.. it could be blizzard just showing Liadrin's viewpoint rather than an indication the hatred is still very strong.

Blood elves have abandoned their high ideals, and are in a position that high elves deem untrustworthy. Ofc according to the blood elves, such ideals and viewpoints are naiive, and fruitless, mainly because they feel that such led to the ruin of Quel'thalas - so the blood elves have become far more cunning and now are not hesistant to seek or use power ruthlessly - no more holding back because of what they view as moral issues - which the high elves view as right v wrong .

This is where the diferences started, that have led to a widening of a gap between the two, and then stuff happened that necessitated elf on elf violence. The blood elves seem to be the instigators of violent or wrong behaviour, and the other elven groups retaliate. In the night elf situation, it's the blood elves that attack on sight rather than have a conversation. It is the blood elves that destroy Theramore, a home for not a few number of high elves - which prompts the actions of the silver covenant in dalaran .. but i think that is consistent with the horde in general.

The horde is usually written to be the more aggressive and instigator of violence betweent he two factions. Classic horde and alliance had quite contrasting quest line differences, alliance quests were almost exclusively against environment and saving x, y, z from some effect or thing that had gone wrong, but a good portion of the horde quests were focused on targetting the alliance. The horde was obsessed with the alliance a lot more than the alliance was obsessed with the horde. [if you ever played both]

I think you overvalue the "high ideals" of the high elves. The high elves always have been pretty egoistic, power hungry types. The blood elves now, are about as ruthless and whatnot as the high elves had been before. That's why most of the former high elves are blood elves now. If 10% of Americans got exiled and founded a nation of "Real Americans", while the other 90% got on in pretty much the same way as before, which one would you think is the real one?

The whole high elf problem stems from all the changes Blizzard made to the story. At first, when the blood elves appeared in TBC, they really sucked on fel energies and had a kind of proto-fascistoid society. At that point, they high elves story made sense.

But when Blizzard changed the story to BE only siphoning arcane energies from mammals, and the high elves going on riots because of the that, BLizzard really made them look like totally nutty vegans. This happened among a zombie apocalypse where your whole society is on the brink of survival (and high elves anyway killing animals for food and sports).

The BE leadership as as culturally high elf as anything the high elves had before. Lor'themar, Liadrin, Haldurin are all as high elven as you can get. Even a guy like Rommath is culturally well within the scope of historical high elves. These guys are the decedents of the highborne after all. The were always about securing a future for their people by acclaiming arcane or magical power. There is no philosophical difference there.

With the Sunwell restored, they BE really look like the HE before - and have become your typical high elf faction from most fantasy settings (secluded city-state, powerful magic users and strong knights, good rangers).

The split is pretty much political only at the moment, and only makes sense because of what Blizzard did with Theramore and the Dalaran purge.

It also looks like you never played a blood elf. From a BE point of view the Alliance was more obsessed with them then they other way round.You'll find that you also get attacked on sight by NPC night elves (within BE lands!), and they along with Alliance forces do pretty shady stuff there (from Alliance side it's understandable, but from a BE perspective not at all).

[Combatbutler]

The whole high elf problem stems from all the changes Blizzard made to the story. At first, when the blood elves appeared in TBC, they really sucked on fel energies and had a kind of proto-fascistoid society. At that point, they high elves story made sense.

But when Blizzard changed the story to BE only siphoning arcane energies from mammals, and the high elves going on riots because of the that, BLizzard really made them look like totally nutty vegans. This happened among a zombie apocalypse where your whole society is on the brink of survival (and high elves anyway killing animals for food and sports).

Actually we knew the blood elves in Quel'thalas only drained mana from vermin, before bc was even released. Blizzards encyclopedia predates the expansions by a few months and describes the situation in detail, even ingame you don't go around sucking fel magic, you drain mana wyrms and help keep the arcane sanctums up, who produced most of the arcane power.

[Friendlyimmolation]

#Doit

/10char

Would be hilarious to say the least

[Combatbutler]

Would be hilarious to say the least

If they do it every 10 years or so ,there is a good chance they kill off most of the high elf children born during that period.

[Friendlyimmolation]

If they do it every 10 years or so ,there is a good chance they kill off most of the high elf children born during that period.

Could only get rommath so excited

[Tenjen]

The initial split has been for ethical reasons. The high elves refused to suck magic from living beings. That caused strife in Quel'thalas, Lor'themar could not accept dissent, so he threw the high elves out (and turned Quel'thalas into a police state). But now, the Sunwell is back. The Blood Elves do not need to suck magic out of living beings anymore. The Blood Knights themselves do not need to suck the Light out of a dying naaru. They even turned more into traditional paladins ever since. So the philosophical gap between the two is not that great anymore. Besides, every nation has pragmatic people and others that are idealists. That is not enough to justify the present rift between the two factions of elves.

The problem has become more political. Why did the Quel'lithien Rangers refuse to trust Lor'themar when he offered him his aid? Because they were exiled by him, sure. But mainly because they were attacked by Horde adventurers sent by Nathanos Blightcaller, Champion of the Banshee Queen, leader of the Forsaken who are now stationned in Tranquilien. These are political reasons. What Vereesa and her Silver Covenant have against the Blood Elves? Mainly that they are part of the Horde, and that as allies of the Horde, some of them helped in the obliteration of Theramore, where a group of high elves took refuge. Again, these are political reasons. We are at a point where the Blood Elves alliegence to the Horde is solely what makes it more and more difficult for the High Elves to rejoin their kin. The reverse is also true. Acts perpetrated by the High Elves as members of the Alliance make it more difficult for the Blood Elves to accept their eventual return.

Pretty much. Its been replaced by things which have happened since then in their factional activities and pursuits. The initial reasons for the separation have been replaced by the fact it even happened and everything that went on since then.

[Deleted]

I've seen fan art that would imply otherwise

Considering their pick-up lines I think it was just fanart. "Normally I only ride epic mounts..." - I'm sure my proto-drake will be happy to hear this, bye.

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Do they have the power to do it? Cuz if they do, I'd pull the trigger imediatelly and see how the so pure and innocent Helves deal with the withdrawl.

Certainly a lot better than the fel eyed junkies/

[ravenmoon]

The initial split has been for ethical reasons. The high elves refused to suck magic from living beings. That caused strife in Quel'thalas, Lor'themar could not accept dissent, so he threw the high elves out (and turned Quel'thalas into a police state). But now, the Sunwell is back. The Blood Elves do not need to suck magic out of living beings anymore. The Blood Knights themselves do not need to suck the Light out of a dying naaru. They even turned more into traditional paladins ever since. So the philosophical gap between the two is not that great anymore. Besides, every nation has pragmatic people and others that are idealists. That is not enough to justify the present rift between the two factions of elves.

The problem has become more political. Why did the Quel'lithien Rangers refuse to trust Lor'themar when he offered him his aid? Because they were exiled by him, sure. But mainly because they were attacked by Horde adventurers sent by Nathanos Blightcaller, Champion of the Banshee Queen, leader of the Forsaken who are now stationned in Tranquilien. These are political reasons. What Vereesa and her Silver Covenant have against the Blood Elves? Mainly that they are part of the Horde, and that as allies of the Horde, some of them helped in the obliteration of Theramore, where a group of high elves took refuge. Again, these are political reasons. We are at a point where the Blood Elves alliegence to the Horde is solely what makes it more and more difficult for the High Elves to rejoin their kin. The reverse is also true. Acts perpetrated by the High Elves as members of the Alliance make it more difficult for the Blood Elves to accept their eventual return.

Very well said Frontenac.. very well said !

[Tenjen]

I was wondering whether the sunwell was partially sapient. Anyhow, its a font of the light. If they screw around with it and unjustly use it against other elves, it will reject them itself.

You'd think they'd learn from Quel'Serrar. Though the conversation at the end of that old wotlk questline showed they did not anyway.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I was wondering whether the sunwell was partially sapient. Anyhow, its a font of the light. If they screw around with it and unjustly use it against other elves, it will reject them itself.

You'd think they'd learn from Quel'Serrar. Though the conversation at the end of that old wotlk questline showed they did not anyway.

unless they think they are doing the right thing, then nothing will happen. If that was the case.

[Aquamonkey]

I was wondering whether the sunwell was partially sapient. Anyhow, its a font of the light. If they screw around with it and unjustly use it against other elves, it will reject them itself.

Wielding the Light has nothing to do with justice. Only 1 of 2 things is required: willpower or believing you can do it.

[Beloren]

Did you guys do the latest quest? Awesome. Liadrin was amazing ! - She has my vote for Queen of the Blood elves. and Lol @Tyrande - tyrande tries to melee the mobs it's so pathetic.. I suppose we have to have them around or the alliance players would cry daylight robbery. But blizzard has done the blood elves justice, and I think so far it's a very good portrayal of the whole elven situation.

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The nightborne look far better fitted to the blood elves anyway - they're not go to shooting bows and arrows, and if the alliance has the high elves, then the blood elves should get the nightborne. The high elves are rangers and use bows, so do the night elves, whiles the blood elves use magic so do the nightborne. high elves like forests and trees hence led by a ranger general, so do night elves, nightborne are cities and magic like blood elves.

the magic of the nightborne would feel far more at home with the blood elves, the night elves don't have any magic like that. Then they can have portals to Silvermoon from Suramar and the blood elves can use Suramar till we get Silvermoon repaired in a patch

[Sangris]

She doesn't need a weapon. She'll annoy the enemies with her constant whining about "mah husband" until they just want to kill themselves.