Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[RyanEX]

Vanilla WoW was a buggy, unbalanced clusterfuck. People that want Legacy servers want it at the end of it's life when all/most of the bugs were rooted out of it, just before TBC launched.

And what people seem to forget was that WoW didn't get "great" until Wrath, where the difficulty was trimmed down to coincide with the "greatest Warcraft villian" Arthas.

[Ehuehuecopter]

Vanilla WoW was a buggy, unbalanced clusterfuck. People that want Legacy servers want it at the end of it's life when all/most of the bugs were rooted out of it, just before TBC launched.

And what people seem to forget was that WoW didn't get "great" until Wrath, where the difficulty was trimmed down to coincide with the "greatest Warcraft villian" Arthas.

^

Also " WE WANT THE OLD VANILLA HURR DURR"


Never done AQ or NAXX

Just BWL until BroodLord


kk

[Kolvarg]

You guys are literally blinded by nostalgia, and only idealize classic WoW because you don't have it anymore.

I'm sure some are. Just like some are blinded by fanatism and refuse to see there are flaws and major differences in design and philosohy in the current game.

What do you have to say to the fact that there are indeed thousands of people who have recently played classic WoW, TBC, WotLK in private servers for over a year and longer?

You and others talk about nostalgia like it's this evil thing, when it's a very valid feeling to experience and indulge in. There's nothing wrong about feeling nostalgic and wanting to repeat something you used to do that satisfied you. It might trick some people into thinking they want to play when in reality they won't play for very long, but certainly not everyone.

I feel nostalgic about playing games (in general) with my friends. I still play games with my friends sometimes, and part of the enjoyment of that experience is the nostalgia of remembering/reliving those old times. What's so wrong about it? Would I not enjoy it either way even if it wasn't nostalgic for me?

I guarantee you that if it came back, you'd all divide into different camps of opinion about it, and you'd just find something new to complain about.

You mean just like it happens with pretty much any piece of new content or expansion? "Flying removes immersion and kills world pvp, remove it!" "Give flying or unsub!" "Dungeons are too hard now!" "Dungeons are too easy now!" "Dungeons get irrelevant after first week!" "Dungeons are too important I feel forced to run them!" "There's nothing to do!" "There's too much to do I'm overwhelmed!" "Mythic plus needs a cap or people will burn out!" "There's no need for caps, not everyone plays every week!"

I could go on.

No one (reasonable) is saying legacy servers is the solution to all problems with WoW. That doesn't change the fact that some people do want it.

Different people have different tastes and will be satisfied with aspects of the game that match their taste, and disatisfied and will complain about aspects of the game that don't match their taste. Nothing new there, always happened and always will.

[Pann]

I don't think ab interferes in daily running either (though they of course hold purse strings), but I do think they were responsible (directly via general guidance) for the severity of the tuning changes in 3.0.2 vs 2.4 and prior. pre-wotlk, blizz was moving gradually towards limited increases in accessibility of content (examples - a new 10 man raid, and the badge gear, which still took an awful long time to earn the badges for), and new content, including MGT, was darned tight on tuning (except for the tbc heroes here who apparently cleared all 15 heroics in a single lockout regularly).

I think it might have been as simple as 'we think all players should be able with modest effort see and most of them complete all of the content. can you try to make this happens and provide metrics to measure success?' the postulated scrutiny on this type of metric would explain the urgency for catch-up mechanisms and prior-raid-irrelevance that quickly became standard. blizzard itself sometimes brag posted participation.completion numbers for new content, which seems like an odd metric to brag to your playerbase about unles someone was being measured on this.

result - 3.0.2 tuning at all game levels (heroic instances, raids at easy difficulty, etc.).

but to the first line of your response - right. THis is to me the major concern with the frankenstein scenario.

it gets worse, of course, in this legacy speculation. Suppose key personnel bonuses (inc. morhaime) have a criterion included about revenue from legacy with various milestones - and the frankenstein scenario projected a better chance of hitting more milestones.....

Interesting points. However I have a different take on the Wrath tuning I think this was on Blizzard not AB.

From what I have read over the years WoW has always suffered poor retention rates even when it was experiencing massive growth in classic and early TBC. Looking at the sub numbers growth had slowed considerably by the second half of TBC, with just 300k gained over the three quarters prior to Wrath. I think they looked at the sub numbers and saw that many were leaving without touching a TBC heroic and as a result they tried and get players into, what was at the time, a minority activity. For me the choice they faced was that or divert resources from dungeons into some other more casual orientated content.

As far as the Frankenstein scenario goes I would be more worried about the current WoW team wanting to offer their input (pristine realms for example) than bonuses being decided on popularity.

[Ethris]

What do you have to say to the fact that there are indeed thousands of people who have recently played classic WoW, TBC, WotLK in private servers for over a year and longer?

You and others talk about nostalgia like it's this evil thing...

...I feel nostalgic about playing games (in general) with my friends. I still play games with my friends sometimes, and part of the enjoyment of that experience is the nostalgia of remembering/reliving those old times. What's so wrong about it? Would I not enjoy it either way even if it wasn't nostalgic for me?

Blizzard is going to have those servers eventually shut down for breaching copyright. If you think the height of gaming is running Molten Core until you're blue in the face, I really don't have anything to say to you. All I hope is that you find 39 other people who think the same way, and can manage to stay under the radar for at least a little while until the server gets shut down.

The difference between Classic WoW and a game like Age of Empires 2, which still sees major play (and even got an expansion), is that WoW has a determinate end game (at least in terms of PvE). Unless you're playing Classic WoW for PvP, you're literally playing a ten year old game to kill ten year old bosses with ten year old mechanics that people were sick of fighting ten years ago. I can only kill Nefarian so many times in so many ways before I get sick of killing Nefarian. AoE2, on the other hand, is a different game every time you play it.

You mean just like it happens with pretty much any piece of new content or expansion? "Flying removes immersion and kills world pvp, remove it!" "Give flying or unsub!" "Dungeons are too hard now!" "Dungeons are too easy now!" "Dungeons get irrelevant after first week!" "Dungeons are too important I feel forced to run them!" "There's nothing to do!" "There's too much to do I'm overwhelmed!" "Mythic plus needs a cap or people will burn out!" "There's no need for caps, not everyone plays every week!"

Uh yeah, that's exactly what I mean. People will find anything to complain about as you go down the line.

[Dergiab]

You guys are literally blinded by nostalgia, and only idealize classic WoW because you don't have it anymore.

I guarantee you that if it came back, you'd all divide into different camps of opinion about it, and you'd just find something new to complain about.

Classic is gone, it's fucking over, and it's never coming back. Stop dwelling on an incarnation of a video game from ten years ago, and grow up.

And yet I play classic right now and I'm having more fun now than ever since MoP. Take off those Brown-colored glasses please.

[Pann]

Which part of Blizzard?
I think it would be considered a part of WoW so the current WoW deparment would be free to go any way they want if it isn't estimated to be pissing away company dollars. (Feel free to argue if it has to be treated as a new "need to be $100M project".)
I do however think the design team will not accept having a concurrent version running alongside their shiny new one. I think there are much too large egos to have something else take away focus from their baby, or possibly even find players prefering it over their.
(And this is /my/ _opinion_ from how I look at how the game has developed up until today.)

I think this is a good point it certainly seems as if the heart is ruling the head.

[RickJamesLich]

If you really want to be so arrogant to claim correlation implies causation here, without a single shred of evidence other than 'muh feels', go ahead, just don't claim it's a fact. It's not.

Again this is just ignoring common sense lol. Even blizzard have admitted they made a lot of mistakes with WoD, if you've been on this forum for more than a few weeks it's not hard to figure out that a lot of people left because the game took a big turn for the worse.

You're grossly misrepresenting the argument, here.

Long story short, the "free" thing is not a big motivator and is only a factor for an extremely small amount of people. If you don't disagree, then I say we move past this one already.

No, you didn't. You could go from level one to sixty without grouping even once.

Yeah, but you'd be missing a lot of quests and useful upgrades along the way, on retail it's actually really efficient to not group up with players lol. That's the difference.

So you prefer having to spend a long time trying to find a tank, only to have your healer drop when you finally find a tank, so you had to go through recruitment all over again, hoping you find a replacement before someone else got bored and decided to leave?

It's all about finding a good guild, you won't have the problem if you take the time and find the right one.

Same as vanilla.

Yeah, but it's not encouraged in vanilla lol. And you miss out on some pretty important upgrades and the process is a lot slower.

I never even tried to bait you into violating forum rules, I even warned you about the rules. Rules you so arrogantly defied, over and over, even despite being shown the moderator's ruling, by posting this:

Now you are just resorting to dishonesty. You are asking me to provide evidence of the success of private servers, but when I discuss said private servers, you mark the post for moderation. You are better than this man.

Well, then, now you have to prove that said 'huge market' is comprised solely, or, at the very least, in its majority, of people that want to play Vanilla WoW over any other game there is.

Just look at the success of said private servers, since you don't want me to post links or mention said servers, I guess it's time that you do your own research here?

Something Blizzard always strives to do with their games, is to make them as accessible to the public as possible.

To an extent, but we've seen that they've essentially watered down the game along the way (at least in concerns to wow) by doing this.

You needed 315 skinning just to be able to skin Onyxia, and provided you had all the skinning boosts and enchants, you could get up to 4 scales per skinning (i.e. 1-4 scales). Assuming you got the maximum amount on every skinning, that means you'd need ten weeks to get enough scales for everyone. Ten weeks. That's three and a half months, just farming Onyxia over and over to get the cloaks for everyone.

Onyxia reset every 5 days. Plus you could split your raid since she could be 20 manned. So you're looking at about 3 weeks to get everyone their cloak this way. Not to mention the raid came out many months before BWL, and the fact that it took most guilds awhile to progress to Nef in the first place.

Nah. I'd rather advocate for real epic experiences, and support Legion. There is no sense of 'adventure' or 'wonder' or even 'epicness' in traveling down a path you've been before and is already well acquainted to.

Many would of course disagree. Look at how well the NES classic edition is doing for example. Plenty of people enjoy playing games that were fun for them in the past.

Grossly exaggerate and misrepresent other people's arguments isn't 'debunking' them.

That argument is done lol, stick a fork in it.

What evidence.

We've been over this already, stop trying to bait me into violating the forum rules. Since you don't want the evidence posted, I guess you'll have to look it up yourself.

... What? More baseless accusations?

Please....

If it was "cheap and easy", and if it was "profitable", answer me this: why haven't Blizzard implemented legacy servers yet?

That's what we are getting to the bottom of.

Wow, one more to the list of people who have no idea about the differences between emulation and the real deal.

The emulation was already better than the real deal lol.

When?

How?

Ack it may appear you are correct on this one thing - the quote I had in which they said they did not have the source code was from the old Wall of No, which it appears didn't actually quote anyone from blizzard. I guess it's time for me to look this up myself lol.

Come on, stop making baseless claims and start showing the evidence. And stop hiding behind this lame, false excuse that I'm "baiting you" into breaking the forum rules when I was the one warning you that you were breaking them.

Again, there is plenty of evidence out there to suggest it is easily done, according to the private server teams out there. And we've already seen you trying to get the mods involved here and mark posts for infractions, and then try to ask questions when you know that me posting the answers will get me said infractions. Nice try though, but still, a dishonest way to debate.

[Volitar]

^

Also " WE WANT THE OLD VANILLA HURR DURR"


Never done AQ or NAXX

Just BWL until BroodLord


kk

Have you killed Mythic Hellya? HUR DUR LEGION IS GOOD.

See how that Logic is flawed?

You don't need to finish raid content to like an expansion.

[Deleted]

You guys are literally blinded by nostalgia, and only idealize classic WoW because you don't have it anymore.

I guarantee you that if it came back, you'd all divide into different camps of opinion about it, and you'd just find something new to complain about.

Classic is gone, it's fucking over, and it's never coming back. Stop dwelling on an incarnation of a video game from ten years ago, and grow up.

Are you saying that we think we want it? But really we dont?

[Ehuehuecopter]

Have you killed Mythic Hellya? HUR DUR LEGION IS GOOD.

You don't need to finish raid content to like an expansion.

UNFORTUNATELY IN LEGION BESIDE RAIDS THERE IS A TRUCKLOAD OF THINGS TO DO



BESIDE VANILLA RAID? THE FUCKING NOTHING ; GET REAL DUMBOS


To like an EXPAC you have to try all the content, and VANILLA GOT NOTHING BESIDE RAIDS so plz


also 1/3 tov so dunno

[Kolvarg]

Blizzard is going to have those servers eventually shut down for breaching copyright. If you think the height of gaming is running Molten Core until you're blue in the face, I really don't have anything to say to you. All I hope is that you find 39 other people who think the same way, and can manage to stay under the radar for at least a little while until the server gets shut down.

The difference between Classic WoW and a game like Age of Empires 2, which still sees major play (and even got an expansion), is that WoW has a determinate end game (at least in terms of PvE). Unless you're playing Classic WoW for PvP, you're literally playing a ten year old game to kill ten year old bosses with ten year old mechanics that people were sick of fighting ten years ago. I can only kill Nefarian so many times in so many ways before I get sick of killing Nefarian. AoE2, on the other hand, is a different game every time you play it.

Alright, and what does Blizzard shutting down these servers has to do with players WANTING to play these older versions of WoW? If anything it only shows how much people want to play these versions when there's a risk the server will get shut down and players will lose all their progress, no?

It doesn't matter if Blizzard shuts them down or not. It matters there's thousands of people that are playing on these servers for long periods of time despite that risk. Some people have different tastes than yours. You don't have to understand why, just need to face that fact.

That was not the point. The point is that it's not bad if you enjoy something (more) because it is nostalgic. Either way it doesn't matter what you feel, no one is trying to force you to go play classic again. Just like you feel that way about WoW, there are people who can only play so many AoE2 games before getting tired and never wanting to touch it again.

Uh yeah, that's exactly what I mean. People will find anything to complain about as you go down the line.

Yespeople will always find anything to complain about. That's why people complaining/not agreeing is not an excuse/argument for not taking something ahead. At least you made it sound like "People will complain anyway, so don't even need to do it!". My point is that those complains don't matter and in no way should stop Classic Servers from becoming a thing, because just like you agreed, someone will always find something to complain about.

[Volitar]

UNFORTUNATELY IN LEGION BESIDE RAIDS THERE IS A TRUCKLOAD OF THINGS TO DO



BESIDE VANILLA RAID? THE FUCKING NOTHING ; GET REAL DUMBOS


To like an EXPAC you have to try all the content, and VANILLA GOT NOTHING BESIDE RAIDS so plz


also 1/3 tov so dunno

Nope I arbitrarily decided the only thing there is do in Legion is raids so Legion sux, get over it dumbos.

[Ehuehuecopter]

Nope I arbitrarily decided the only thing there is do in Legion is raids so Legion sux, get over it dumbos.

So you have no place in this discussion, vanilla got only raid as content, meanwhile Legion is the alpha male of xpac, get over it and dont slam the door /bye

[Echocho]

I say I enjoy Super Mario Bros 3 more than the newer versions and nobody cares, I say I like vanilla WoW more than the newer versions and everyone loses their shit. What's wrong with you people?

[Ethris]

Are you saying that we think we want it? But really we dont?

I'm saying when you get it, you'll still find something to complain about.

At this point I'm all for letting you people have your skinner box as long as it contains you in one place.

[Ehuehuecopter]

I say I enjoy Super Mario Bros 3 more than the newer versions and nobody cares, I say I like vanilla WoW more than the newer versions and everyone loses their shit. What's wrong with you people?

because nintendo allow you to play different version of the "Mario" on different platform, and nobody is moaning for having the old 8bit mario on the fucking wii U or nintendo shield console (dont recall the name) free as a divine right, because infact SMB3 is a different and separate game from Mario Sunshine.


Meanwhile Warcraft is @ its 7.0.3 BUILD, so no previous version of the game.

[Deficineiron]

Again this is just ignoring common sense lol. Even blizzard have admitted they made a lot of mistakes with WoD, if you've been on this forum for more than a few weeks it's not hard to figure out that a lot of people left because the game took a big turn for the worse.

As I understand it, once blizzard admits it, the topic is no longer valid for discussion and should be avoided. If they haven't admitted it, then the person claiming a mistake must prove it in his post. Submitted proof may then be be required to further substantiate itself.

[Deleted]

now now children, go play your famrville, I mean legion, and leave us in peace.

[Ehuehuecopter]

now now children, go play your famrville, I mean legion, and leave us in peace.

I guess we won guys, this is the 4th post with no actual content for the discussion.





Ironically no content like the Vanilla server XD