Bringing up my son as a feminist

[Nitro Fun]

Just for discussion's sake, why is equality of outcome or even equality of opportunity commendable?

Equality of outcome is just plain retarded and equality of opportunity is just stupid because people are born with inherent differences that makes them good at different things. It's a wishy washy dream.

[Rudkobing]

My name is João, what's the problem

I thought João was being raised in Europe, not Brazil.

[Reinhard von Lohengramm]

Just for discussion's sake, why is equality of outcome or even equality of opportunity commendable?

Because people are more concerned with abstract principles than the actual, quantifiable effects the belief in and upholding of said principles have in reality.

Also this thread is a Grade A example of the "Motte and Bailey" tactic used extensively by the feminist ideology.

[Ahovv]

That's literally what feminism is. The elimination of ideological bias in gender norms. So people are treated equally regardless of gender.

Yes, yes. And the historical basis of the KKK involved Democrats, but it's pretty clear how parties switched over time.

It doesn't matter what feminism *started as*, we need to look at what it has turned into. It is no longer about equality.

[Runenwächter]

That's literally what feminism is. The elimination of ideological bias in gender norms. So people are treated equally regardless of gender.

well thats a problem then. treating people that are not equal equaly and holding unequal people to equal standarts brings about inequality. and feminism is about equality.

if you look at what excesses it has spawned, how toxic its influence actually is on gender relations, how insanely sexist its most vocal proponents and icons, you can not help but notice that it has thus far failed to evolve in a direction that is beneficial.

i can have equal opportunity and fair treatment based on the actual needs of men and women which might not be equal at all and i dont even need a club full of ideologue twitter trolls that would rather reshape humanity than change their mind for that. how cool is THAT?!

[Flarelaine]

Just for discussion's sake, why is equality of outcome or even equality of opportunity commendable?

I was thinking more along the lines of "basic respect for human beings and their bodily autonomy" but I'm mildly surprised equality of opportunity is even a matter of debate. Unless you mean something else by the term than I do.

Equality of outcome is a different story. Outcomes should be individually determined. Opportunities should be for everyone.

[OrcsRLame]

Equality of outcome is just plain retarded and equality of opportunity is just stupid because people are born with inherent differences that makes them good at different things. It's a wishy washy dream.

I think you may be misunderstanding what people mean when they say equality of opportunity. Generally the way I've heard it used, is that people should have the opportunity to be the masters of their own destiny, and allowed to succeed or fail based on their own merits rather than some kind of systemic oppression prohibiting an otherwise successful person from achieving their goals and desires.

Basically, it's the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[prwraith]

That's literally what feminism is. The elimination of ideological bias in gender norms. So people are treated equally regardless of gender.

That is what your definition and the textbook definition of feminism is. What you describe, however, is not even close to what actually takes place.

[Nitro Fun]

I was thinking more along the lines of "basic respect for human beings and their bodily autonomy" but I'm mildly surprised equality of opportunity is even a matter of debate. Unless you mean something else by the term than I do.

Equality of outcome is a different story. Outcomes should be individually determined. Opportunities should be for everyone.

Equality of opportunity is bad because it requires the assumption that everyone is born a blank slate that is later on molded. This is contrary to what we know about genetics.

[A Chozo]

Hey, I'm from the same region as him!

...But both my mom and dad raised me to simply be strong, and to have strong will. And to respect everyone. And to fight back in school, because I went there to study, not to be a punching bag (never had an school fight tho). And to have money, otherwise life will be hard. And to respect everyone, unless they don't respect me.

Kudos to this person, I hope his initiative makes his son a stronger man.

[RobertoCarlos]

Should just let him be a kid imo. The world will enforce its crap apon the child sooner or later.

[Kraenen]

I was thinking more along the lines of "basic respect for human beings and their bodily autonomy" but I'm mildly surprised equality of opportunity is even a matter of debate. Unless you mean something else by the term than I do.

Equality of outcome is a different story. Outcomes should be individually determined. Opportunities should be for everyone.

Well, it's taken for granted so I thought it'd be interesting to open it up. Can you operationalize "basic respect"? For instance the wage gap is a huge issue in feminism, where does that fall into bodily autonomy and basic respect? And what is non-basic respect? Are women just spat at on the streets?

[Zelorra]

Who give a fuck how some shithead from the jungle is gonna raise his brat?

[Hotmail]

First world countries have already been there... this man is about to raise a confused millennial who will still live with his parents at the age of 27, only to eventually realize that in the long run he would have been better off bating for his own team.

Chauvinism is essentially men taking all the power while women have none. The thing is, once you give the other side a taste of power, they are going to want more and more until they end up being the ones in control... and before you know it, the economy has collapsed because the wife is pursuing a Liberal Arts major while the husband is in the kitchen trying figure out where he left that nice bottle of scented dishwasher.

[Nitro Fun]

It doesn't require that even a little bit. It's an endorsement of individual merit, while also realizing that right now individual merit isn't enough and that other irrelevant aspects of a person can serve to severely hinder their ability to obtain opportunities.

Yes, it does.

If I want someone that can do heavy lifting it would make sense to discriminate against women.

[Kraenen]

Equality of opportunity is bad because it requires the assumption that everyone is born a blank slate that is later on molded. This is contrary to what we know about genetics.

The following example is probably good enough: having the same standards that need to be met for military service between males and females. Females have a harder time meeting physical tests because of their biology/genetics, but if they're held up to the same standards to get into the military there's equality of opportunity.

[Nitro Fun]

The following example is probably good enough: having the same standards that need to be met for military service between males and females. Females have a harder time meeting physical tests because of their biology/genetics, but if they're held up to the same standards to get into the military there's equality of opportunity.

Women in the military pose a danger to the whole unit they are assigned to. Men being men try to protect the woman and end up endangering the whole unit in the process.

[xskarma]

Gender debates are against the forum rules, which this was mostly from the start and drifted further into. Closing this.



CLOSED.