Why can't S2M be baseline?

[Pawstruck]

@ folks complaining about "balancing the whole spec around a single talent" ...ok.

So make it baseline.

Integrate the on-the-edge-of-death, playing-with-fire playstyle into the shadow priest core kit.

Why is this a bad idea?

[chunx0r]

It's pretty punishing for people on poor internet connections or people playing across regions.

[Thormere]

@ folks complaining about "balancing the whole spec around a single talent" ...ok.

So make it baseline.

Integrate the on-the-edge-of-death, playing-with-fire playstyle into the shadow priest core kit.

Why is this a bad idea?

I like your idea. They should do the same thing to lock CD's as talents. They really shouldnt have put so many CD's in the talent trees

[Spray]

What I'd do:

Make a vanilla form of S2M baseline. It would be much weaker (like half the extra sanity generation) but it would also not kill you; instead it would lock you out of void form for the rest of the encounter.
Then I'd keep the current S2M as a talented upgrade to that base spell.

IMHO a very good compromise between what we have now and what could have been.

[rowaasr13]

Multiplier from S2M givess insane damage and makes nerfing of all other abilities mandatory so total damage multiplied by S2M won't get completely out of hand. How the fuck making it available to everyone going to even remotely fix that?

It will only produce one of two situations: the rest of spec will be nerfed into ground, so even perfect play gives damage similar with other DD specs, but still with shitarded penalty OR damage will be insane and everyone else will whine for a reason.

[Deleted]

Multiplier from S2M givess insane damage and makes nerfing of all other abilities mandatory so total damage multiplied by S2M won't get completely out of hand. How the fuck making it available to everyone going to even remotely fix that?

It will only produce one of two situations: the rest of spec will be nerfed into ground, so even perfect play gives damage similar with other DD specs, but still with shitarded penalty OR damage will be insane and everyone else will whine for a reason.

This is the main reason I won't take shadow seriously until they get rid of it all together.

I don't like build-burn specs in general .

[Joodoc]

What I'd do:

Make a vanilla form of S2M baseline. It would be much weaker (like half the extra sanity generation) but it would also not kill you; instead it would lock you out of void form for the rest of the encounter.
Then I'd keep the current S2M as a talented upgrade to that base spell.

Seriously, this is brilliant. You really should post this in the suggestion thread on Blizzard's Forums.

[alemaite]

What I'd do:

Make a vanilla form of S2M baseline. It would be much weaker (like half the extra sanity generation) but it would also not kill you; instead it would lock you out of void form for the rest of the encounter.
Then I'd keep the current S2M as a talented upgrade to that base spell.

Problem with this is it would make the talent that empowers s2m pretty much mandatory in raids (nothing would really change). I'm not sure what Blizzard wants to do. If they want SPriests to use s2m in raids or if they want to give SPriests a real choice in raids. In the current state of the PTR s2m would still be mandatory in raids, there is no talent that comes close and Mind Spike is still useless.

[Pawstruck]

What I'd do:

Make a vanilla form of S2M baseline. It would be much weaker (like half the extra sanity generation) but it would also not kill you; instead it would lock you out of void form for the rest of the encounter.
Then I'd keep the current S2M as a talented upgrade to that base spell.

Could be, but this suffers twofold:

1) It's not as interesting as current S2M, both thematically and mechanically -- it takes away the uniqueness the spec could have.

and

2) *Any* fight-wide DPS increase is going to be seen as mandatory, even if it were only 10-15%, by both the players and the developers. In other words, this wouldn't solve the problem of "balancing around" S2M.

There isn't any problem with designing an entire spec around a mechanic. I think what people resent right now is (A) Blizzard can't balance worth shit, so even if they got it right in theory it wouldn't materialize in practice, and (B) the core mechanic is a talent, but so far above its competitors as to be mandatory.

IMHO, the only way to reward a player for success at difficult gameplay is with higher gains. Therefore, S2M needs to put a perfectly-played spriest at the top of the DPS pack, maybe even the very top. But again, Blizz can't balance worth shit, and we've got braindead mages and warriors topping the meters without any risk of death.

[stahpityou]

Having it lock you out of void form is pretty much the same as being dead, you will do no damage.

[Nzete]

It would be nice to see a version of shadow that didn't suck for healers doing world quests as an off spec. "Squishy, long ramp spec, with the best dps requiring you to literally die" just doesn't work at all. I'll take my healing weapon with the +damage +stamina for the traits invested and do my world quests as a healer... and not die... horribly.

[ThePhantombox]

This is the main reason I won't take shadow seriously until they get rid of it all together.

I don't like build-burn specs in general .

Lol wtf then why would you play shadow?

[Deleted]

Lol wtf then why would you play shadow?

It wasn't always this way.

[ceall]

I have a better idea: remove stm, re-introduce dark archangel as a 1 min CD for 20 sec, giving 30% more damage (could be 15% and 3 points in artifact) and 50% increased insanity gain. It'd be up for every 2nd or third VF and would give us a short cooldown for non-raid-environments. It'd also line up with PI a few times per fight (you know, synergy and stuff, sth we're missing since cata).

[barnicle]

I have a better idea: remove stm, re-introduce dark archangel as a 1 min CD for 20 sec, giving 30% more damage (could be 15% and 3 points in artifact) and 50% increased insanity gain. It'd be up for every 2nd or third VF and would give us a short cooldown for non-raid-environments. It'd also line up with PI a few times per fight (you know, synergy and stuff, sth we're missing since cata).

Or call it Dark Apotheosis to match the Holy spec and piss off the Warlocks EleGiggle

[MoanaLisa]

I'd rather have it out of the game altogether.

[spiritsurge]

I don't think it can be baseline simply because it's impossible to balance, there is no chance that now or in the future Surrender to Madness will ever be balanced to the point that it's not broken in one way or the other. It needs to be removed so Blizzard can work on something that is actually possible to balance correctly.

[Shyzhi]

I don't think it can be baseline simply because it's impossible to balance, there is no chance that now or in the future Surrender to Madness will ever be balanced to the point that it's not broken in one way or the other. It needs to be removed so Blizzard can work on something that is actually possible to balance correctly.

They could make it baseline as a very nerfed version like... instantly puts you into voidform and increases insanity generation by 50% for 30secs. Gives upfront burst at start of a boss fight but makes it less OP in ways.. they could then make a talent that buffs it to 100% but you dont go insantly into VF and when you fuck up you die. where as the vanilla one you wont die.