How strong really is the ring on single target?

[Raikh]

Thats not how it works. The results Simc give you are independent of rng. Sure felblade involves rng, as does the whole class with beign reliant on crits, demon blades being a thing, anger is also a source of quite a bit of rng. On average felblade is 5-6% dps gain over bloodlet if executed properly. You don't need proc luck at all for it to be better.
And 5% is not a small deal, it is not so easily drowned by a bit of rng. If it was like a 1% difference you could argue consistency but int his case, clearly not, especially not since felblade has a decent minimum value since it has fixed CD on top of being able to proc, its never all or nothing with it.

First Blood also does nothing for AoE, it only affects the first target hit by BD. You can get extra priority damage due to balanced blades in AoE situations, but your true AoE damage is entirely unaffected. So the assumption it was for AoE is entirely wrong from the get go.
I agree that it is kind fo weird though and pretty unintuitive given the usual design. Since you have essentially 2 different ST options and one cleave option, tuning aside it is weird to have that and they are also fixing it in 7.1.5 so you have one ST, one cleave and one AoE option which makes the tier more well-rounded design wise. Tuning will be a different story again and only time will tell it.

Before derailing further though. My point is that felblade is currently worth taking on ST heavy encounters like Odyn, Guarm, Nythendra and maybe even on stuff like Elerethe if adds die so fast that bloodlet doesn't do much damage on the adds. Hell, even Cenarius mythic with the nuke tactic and Xavius might be decent options, since the actual cleave is a rather small part of the fights and might also be of no huge improtance, so focussing on priority damage + a bit of extra gap closing might prove more useful.

The anti-synergy with anger can also be viewed as helpful, as it makes felblade closing the gap between ring owners and non-owners since the difference shrinks from 10% to 5% and thats especially why I can't promote felblade enough right now. While things are changing drastically in 7.1.5 we actually have an option to play around not having our strongest legendary until then and given the huge waves of complaints we see here currently involving the ring this really shoud help this community realize that they are less dependent on having the ring than they think they are.

[InkarnateKT]

My 5 minute patchwerk sim with felblade is ~420k
Replace my Sephuz with Anger, use bloodlet over felblade and its ~465k

This is post hotfix to 1-12

[Khiyone]

First Blood also does nothing for AoE, it only affects the first target hit by BD. You can get extra priority damage due to balanced blades in AoE situations, but your true AoE damage is entirely unaffected. So the assumption it was for AoE is entirely wrong from the get go.

It cuts the fury cost of Blade Dance. I do agree that it doesn't have good AoE value in its current state, but the value is nonzero.

[Deleted]

Dudes The ring is dead on PTR (4-5% increase). Move on .

[Shirofune]

First Blood also does nothing for AoE, it only affects the first target hit by BD. You can get extra priority damage due to balanced blades in AoE situations, but your true AoE damage is entirely unaffected. So the assumption it was for AoE is entirely wrong from the get go.
I agree that it is kind fo weird though and pretty unintuitive given the usual design. Since you have essentially 2 different ST options and one cleave option, tuning aside it is weird to have that and they are also fixing it in 7.1.5 so you have one ST, one cleave and one AoE option which makes the tier more well-rounded design wise. Tuning will be a different story again and only time will tell it.

Read what I said. That's what I would do with the T3 atm. I know First Blood is intended (and still is) to be Single Target.

[InkarnateKT]

Dudes The ring is dead on PTR (4-5% increase). Move on .

4-5% better than my helm or sephuz on a patchwerk fight

[Draekan]

You missed an opportunity here mate. Turn around three times and come back to what everyone is saying. Never mind, I guess, the French saying goes: only stupid people never change their mind.

The question is not who has what. Ultimately we don't care because it all depends on what activities you are doing in game. An lfr player won't be worried about a potential 50k DPS shortage because of bad luck with drops, a dh that does competitive PVE on mythic might feel rather concerned that DH single target DPS is lacking without ring and that blizzard is nerfing it.

If you have it, you are fucked.
If you don't have it you are double fucked.

For those that don't care what legendary they get, fine the message was received. For those that want to be able to compete and need every drop of dps for progression, yeah it suxx.

Clearly since you're not capable of making a decent argument without taking it to extremes or trying to berate people you're triple "fucked". These threads start because people do care who has what. Nobody likes this system, but to go around demanding a specific Legendary - that you know won't magically improve your chances of getting it, is stupid. I also personally think it's stupid to start reporting your own classes legendary, but maybe that's just me who see's that as a betrayal because I have it.

How you approach this comes down to how you handle being unlucky, a small portion whine and bitch and cry on the forums. Others put up a decent argument as to why it's unfair. And the vast majority as always get on with the damn game. The ring has now been debugged and is then heading toward a nerf partly in thanks to the first group. I personally can't wait to see the same people repeating the procedure on the next BiS legendary.

Either way, whether everyone agrees unanimously or not about the ring, I don't see any point in wasting more of my time arguing with people like yourself. "Only stupid people never change their mind" as you said.

[Deleted]

4-5% better than my helm or sephuz on a patchwerk fight

You are gonna cry when other classes' legendaries aren't getting touched (many) and still do 9-10%

[InkarnateKT]

You are gonna cry when other classes' legendaries aren't getting touched (many) and still do 9-10%

This argument makes no sense.

[Deleted]

This argument makes no sense.

To you maybe. It matters. 1 good leg for DH vs 2-3 for many other classes. Matters.

[Raikh]

It cuts the fury cost of Blade Dance. I do agree that it doesn't have good AoE value in its current state, but the value is nonzero.

The value for AoE damage is zero, since we have no AoE fury spender without a CD. BD costing less fury doesn't icnrease the frequency of which we can use any of our AoE abilities. It only helps on ST again, since we have more fury left for CS but nothing else.

[Exhorder]

Dudes The ring is dead on PTR (4-5% increase). Move on .

Cinidaria is looking really sexy next patch (it kinda already is) especially through clever use of Chaos Blade mechanics (cough, cough), also the shoulders when it allows an extra meta or two.

[Deleted]

Shoulders' effect doesn't work during META . and cinidaria is a neutral leg .. it shouldn't be our second best.

[psyquest]

Clearly since you're not capable of making a decent argument without taking it to extremes or trying to berate people you're triple "fucked". These threads start because people do care who has what. Nobody likes this system, but to go around demanding a specific Legendary - that you know won't magically improve your chances of getting it, is stupid. I also personally think it's stupid to start reporting your own classes legendary, but maybe that's just me who see's that as a betrayal because I have it.

How you approach this comes down to how you handle being unlucky, a small portion whine and bitch and cry on the forums. Others put up a decent argument as to why it's unfair. And the vast majority as always get on with the damn game. The ring has now been debugged and is then heading toward a nerf partly in thanks to the first group. I personally can't wait to see the same people repeating the procedure on the next BiS legendary.

Either way, whether everyone agrees unanimously or not about the ring, I don't see any point in wasting more of my time arguing with people like yourself. "Only stupid people never change their mind" as you said.

I am wondering if you are a troll.

Statistically looking at all single target bosses and looking at the 200 top parses, you cannot see a distinct pattern?

In your previous post you mention one guy (one) that does not have the ring and you think that is in any way statistically relevant?

We are not here reporting or asking for ANY nerf to DH or to our legendaries. READ THAT SLOWLY. take it in.

We are trying, to point to a problem with the class that almost anyone with two working brain hemispheres can easily and logically agree on.

1. the class is not good enough on single target dps if it does not have 1 specific legendary.
2. the DH class need to be buffed on ST dps and its pool of legendaries should have more compelling ST boost choices.
3. it is bad design for a class to be only able to perform on ST if it has a specific item that can only be obtained via RNG.

what in the name of everything holy cant you understand in these 3 points?

The only thing you could possibly point to is that people dont need x to play the class. Unfortunately to play competitively at high level currently, that ring legendary is required (bolded word for emphasis).

I dont know if I didnt explain myself correctly or if you are in to troll, but this was my last attempt to explain things.

The ring is NOT getting nerfed because of people that dont have it. If you think so, you have no idea how blizzard works. The ring is getting nerfed because it is too good. period. nothing to do with the salty crowd that dont have it or are crying about not having it...

/peace.

[Deleted]

Cinidaria is looking really sexy next patch (it kinda already is) especially through clever use of Chaos Blade mechanics (cough, cough), also the shoulders when it allows an extra meta or two.

The belt is already better on Odyn on live and I would bet that it is better on Helya as well. The more (preferably high HP) adds there are in a fight, the better the belt becomes. The ring is essentially "just" a ST buff and will be nearly irrelevant when 7.1.5 hits.

[Shalakittena]

I am wondering if you are a troll.

Statistically looking at all single target bosses and looking at the 200 top parses, you cannot see a distinct pattern?

In your previous post you mention one guy (one) that does not have the ring and you think that is in any way statistically relevant?

We are not here reporting or asking for ANY nerf to DH or to our legendaries. READ THAT SLOWLY. take it in.

We are trying, to point to a problem with the class that almost anyone with two working brain hemispheres can easily and logically agree on.

1. the class is not good enough on single target dps if it does not have 1 specific legendary.
2. the DH class need to be buffed on ST dps and its pool of legendaries should have more compelling ST boost choices.
3. it is bad design for a class to be only able to perform on ST if it has a specific item that can only be obtained via RNG.

what in the name of everything holy cant you understand in these 3 points?

The only thing you could possibly point to is that people dont need x to play the class. Unfortunately to play competitively at high level currently, that ring legendary is required (bolded word for emphasis).

I dont know if I didnt explain myself correctly or if you are in to troll, but this was my last attempt to explain things.

The ring is NOT getting nerfed because of people that dont have it. If you think so, you have no idea how blizzard works. The ring is getting nerfed because it is too good. period. nothing to do with the salty crowd that dont have it or are crying about not having it...

/peace.

Going to chime in and preface this by saying that I've been incredibly lucky with legendaries.

There are plenty of classes that are in the same situation as DH and suffer the same exact problems that you listed. However, their legendaries aren't getting nerfed despite some being required for the class to function, some being 50k+ DPS increases, etc. This is why some people feel like we are being singled out because of the number of complaints about the ring. Granted the bugged version of the ring was way overtuned but the ring in its current iteration on live is in line with many other legendaries. If you expect some sort of compensation if they further nerf AotHG then you're way more optimistic about the competency of the Blizzard balance team than I am especially given the PTR changes so far.

Let's be honest, even if a legendary only gave a 4-5% DPS increase it would still be very difficult to compete at the highest level without it. BiS legendaries are pretty much required and it sucks that everyone does not have access to them. The legendary system has been a giant pile of turd and greatly diminishes an otherwise great expansion and that should be everyone's primary complaint.

I know most of you that are asking for the ring to be nerfed don't want the class to be nerfed in general, but given the number of threads with titles like "AotHG OP" instead of "Buff DH Base Fury Gen" it can come across like you do. Especially considering that devs sometimes just skim forums or are relayed information from community managers, can you not see how these kind of threads would result in them simply nerfing the ring?

[Deleted]

I'm really curious if Blizzard "balance team" can actually be this clueless, that they nerfed the absolute sh*t out of our best legendary, considering that we were still not top single target dps even with it. On top of that, people here are saying that even though the tooltip was 1-12, the ring kept giving 1-20 fury until recently, so one would think that now that the ring is working as intended with 1-12, it should be fine. But nerfing it even further and doing it 1-6 is gonna kill our single target dps, considering that demon blades and overall crit is also getting nerfed.

I don't have the ring and I have never complained that the ring should get nerfed, and the day I saw the PTR notes I was really sad because of the ring nerfs even though I dont have it, because for me it was like a dream to get my hands on that ring one day.

If they will actually nerf the ring to 1-6 fury, then they should have baked that nerfed amount into baseline spec, while keeping the demonblades at 75%. So if they are really so dedicated to nerf the living sh*t out of that ring, fine but just make a compensation so that the difference between people who has the ring and who doesn't would get smaller.

[Deleted]

Well they nerfed the other OP legendaries by 50% on average so our ring was performing at 1-20 it should be nerfed at 1-10/12. 1-6 is really completely retarded indeed

[Deix-EU]

What pissed me off is how we are design flawed by a large margin. Even for little concerns that destroys QoL of DH. Just one example:
They seem to nerf fury generation as a whole (first T19 set, then DB + ring) and yet we're still "expected" to pool Fury otherwise what the intent of having an artifact talent to rise up the maximum and EVEN WORSE, some relics about it.
We are mainly fucked from many parts, WE are an entire error.

I should say more, DH should've never existed. One class too much, even monk was too much. They are getting overflowed by impossible balance equation now.

[Raiju]

what the intent of having an artifact talent to rise up the maximum and EVEN WORSE, some relics about it.

Meta + hero