[TV] Westworld

[Thelxi]

So good. One episode they reveal Bernard is a robot, next episode they reveal he is fucking Arnold! The stakes are very high for the second season, I hope they have a story in mind for it, not make up shit and figure it out when they get there.

[RobertoCarlos]

Anyone else worried for the hemsworth brother? Dem Native Americans are scary. And maybe a horde of them is part of Fords new narrative. Hes gona kill everyone and Marsden will turn into the villian Wyatt.

[IIamaKing]

I could be wrong, but I think there's more than 2 timelines that were shown. We can base that off her outfits, stab wound and picture.

Timeline 1 (earliest) - Dolores is in a blue dress and we see young Ford (beginnings of the park).

*some time passes*

Timeline 2 - Dolores is in the pants outfit. She is with young William and Logan. Logan shows William the photo of his sister. Dolores gets stabbed, then slashes Logan and runs off with stab wound.

*large amount of time passes*

Timeline 3 (present) - Dolores's Dad finds the photo and it triggers Dolores's older memories of 'finding the maze'. She again puts on the pants outfit and retraces her steps back to the church. Once there, she remembers the old facility and runs into older William (MiB).

During Timeline 3 Dolores is starting to recall the older memories of Timeline 2, likely making her think she's in that time-period, which is why she's confused to see that she's suddenly healed after getting stabbed.

If you remember, the hosts were said to have memories that were much more real. Like, they couldn't discern if the memory was a memory or actually happening at that moment.

I can agree with all this.

[Hexian]

That episode was amazing!

So Dolores killed Arnold or did I see that wrong?

[IIamaKing]

Anyone else worried for the hemsworth brother? Dem Native Americans are scary. And maybe a horde of them is part of Fords new narrative. Hes gona kill everyone and Marsden will turn into the villian Wyatt.

Lesser Hemsworth is fucked me thinks.

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That episode was amazing!

So Dolores killed Arnold or did I see that wrong?

Thats what was said, though the how or why is unclear.

[Hexian]

Lesser Hemsworth is fucked me thinks.

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Thats what was said, though the how or why is unclear.

Hmm, well Ford did program the original Dolores. So maybe he purposefully did it to remove him and replace him with Bernard.

[Redwyrm]

Lesser Hemsworth is fucked me thinks.

I think that Elsie is still alive. Sent the signal to get negative Hemsworth's attention and reprogrammed the Indians to bring him to her "safe" spotto plan a retaking of the main computer base. This is assuming that Bernard only choked her to unconscious and did not kill her.

[IIamaKing]

I think that Elsie is still alive. Sent the signal to get negative Hemsworth's attention and reprogrammed the Indians to bring him to her "safe" spotto plan a retaking of the main computer base. This is assuming that Bernard only choked her to unconscious and did not kill her.

Oo thats a thought.

[Endus]

I think that Elsie is still alive. Sent the signal to get negative Hemsworth's attention and reprogrammed the Indians to bring him to her "safe" spotto plan a retaking of the main computer base. This is assuming that Bernard only choked her to unconscious and did not kill her.

Well, there's another option, too.

Elsie's legit-human, and figured out that some of her colleagues (including Bernard) were hosts. She was keeping quiet, but it got her interested enough to be digging into stuff, as we saw her doing. So she may have known how to trip Bernard's fail-safes and escape, using Ford's backdoors.

While that involves a few leaps, that they never bothered to show her obviously being killed (snapped neck, etc) suggests to me she's coming back.

[jimboa24]

I'm still not fully on-board with William = Man in Black. And yes, I know we're dealing with multiple timelines, that's pretty obvious. But here's the thing: we just saw Delores in the same clothes she was wearing as a direct result of her time with William and Logan in the church, and we also know that her default outfit is the blue dress. The only reason she was in her outfit with the gun was because she was with William, and in fact when she was off-script, people from the park came to retrieve her and only backed off because of William's interference. Also, isn't the church buried in the sand at some point in all of this?

So, for William to be the Man In Black, Delores would have to go off-script again 30 years later, intentionally change her outfit (for some reason), make it to the church, all without the park interfering and dragging her back to her loop.

I can see that we're dealing with a non-linear timeline, but to just say William = MiB, 30 years apart...well, a lot of this shit does NOT make sense without further elaboration.

[RobertoCarlos]

For me I think Man in black = William is the way the episode ended.

Dolores was in despair after learning she killed Arnold or at least thinks she did and is walking towards the church door and hears someone at the door and says William! Hoping its William. Then the Man in black just rocks up smiling. I think it was a poetic way of confirming it.

And also the fact he took out an entire camp in one night without dickhead step-brother knowing. Dem MiB skills.

[Feredir]

I'm still not fully on-board with William = Man in Black. And yes, I know we're dealing with multiple timelines, that's pretty obvious. But here's the thing: we just saw Delores in the same clothes she was wearing as a direct result of her time with William and Logan in the church, and we also know that her default outfit is the blue dress. The only reason she was in her outfit with the gun was because she was with William, and in fact when she was off-script, people from the park came to retrieve her and only backed off because of William's interference. Also, isn't the church buried in the sand at some point in all of this?

So, for William to be the Man In Black, Delores would have to go off-script again 30 years later, intentionally change her outfit (for some reason), make it to the church, all without the park interfering and dragging her back to her loop.

I can see that we're dealing with a non-linear timeline, but to just say William = MiB, 30 years apart...well, a lot of this shit does NOT make sense without further elaboration.

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but I interpret it as this. She is having another memory of an earlier time when she went to the church, and the MiB appeared, thus possibly creating a 4th timelime.

[fakaroonie]

If MiB is William why is Dolores terrified of him?

And did you guys saw that old picture of the 3 founders, with Arnold and Ford? My guess the 3rd is MiB.

But yeah, all the evidence points to him being William. They'll have to do a lot of explaining as to how his relationship with Dolores developed.

[jimboa24]

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but I interpret it as this. She is having another memory of an earlier time when she went to the church, and the MiB appeared, thus possibly creating a 4th timelime.

What I'm saying is that she CAN'T be in her pants-and-gun outfit without a guest accompanying her, because that's going off-script and is cause for the park to send in a team, drag her off to maintenance, then put her back in her loop. The fact that the MiB has run into her in her gun-and-pants outfit, the same one she was with William in, suggests that William and MiB exist in the same timeline. Maybe MiB and William are BOTH in the past (though not distant past, just enough to be behind Delores' father breaking down).

The non-linear timeline shit is fucking confusing, man. I hope they have all this shit straight and they're not just making shit up as they go (like they did with Lost).

[RobertoCarlos]

If MiB is William why is Dolores terrified of him?

And did you guys saw that old picture of the 3 founders, with Arnold and Ford? My guess the 3rd is MiB.

But yeah, all the evidence points to him being William. They'll have to do a lot of explaining as to how his relationship with Dolores developed.

Maybe William isnt the same after getting hogtied and watching her get stabbed. Maybe he gets all rapey on Dolores now and treats it more like a game like the MiB

[IIamaKing]

About to watch this weeks episode since I almost had it spoiled for me multiple times today(was going to save it to watch the last 2 in a block next week). From the tweets it seems like it was a pretty good episode.

Dont even risk it, get it watched.

[Endus]

For me I think Man in black = William is the way the episode ended.

Dolores was in despair after learning she killed Arnold or at least thinks she did and is walking towards the church door and hears someone at the door and says William! Hoping its William. Then the Man in black just rocks up smiling. I think it was a poetic way of confirming it.

Right. That scene has much less impact if it isn't the case. The entire point was that her past and present were bleeding into each other; hoping it's William from 30 years ago only to find it's the Man in Black of today at the door is why she's horrified.

And also the fact he took out an entire camp in one night without dickhead step-brother knowing. Dem MiB skills.

That's the confirmation, to me. That's the moment when he said "fuck this place and its bullshit" and stopped treating hosts like people.

If MiB is William why is Dolores terrified of him?

Because it's William, and she knows how far he's fallen, quite possibly. She knows the Man in Black, at the very least, and that he's at least murdered if not raped her in the past.

But yeah, all the evidence points to him being William. They'll have to do a lot of explaining as to how his relationship with Dolores developed.

I think we have it all.

William enters the park for the first time, with Logan.
They run around, he meets Dolores, is smitten, but leaves her behind.
Dolores goes off-script and runs into the two of them, William sees it as fate and insists she come along.
They fall for each other.
Shenanigans occur.
Logan catches up, exposes her as a machine viscerally (literally), William's heart fully breaks.
William slaughter dozens of hosts, where until now he's avoided it unless they were a threat. He clearly no longer sees them as human. Disavows feelings for Dolores.

30 years pass.

Man in Black has spent that time experiencing everything the park has to offer, jaded and heart beyond repair. Has given up hope, likely wants to die, but the park can't kill him, but then he learns of the Maze and its secret. And his new quest begins, where he ensures he's ready by butchering some innocent hosts, demonstrating that he's reached the point of zero empathy. Dolores at this point is merely a tool, since he no longer believes she's "real", and hasn't for 30 years, since he's seen her repeating the same dull little story over and over.

Don't think we need anything more than that to explain his arc to date.

[eschatological]

I think I called most of this previously, but still a great fucking episode.

One thing no one has discussed yet which I thought was interesting was Teddy shooting up the 'beta' village. I'm still curious as to what his role is. He may be Wyatt himself. Or Wyatt is a sentient AI leading a rebellion - though why Ford would build a new narrative around that if beyond me. Maybe Food has realized such a movement is being led by Arnold/Wyatt, and can only draw them out by forcing a new narrative which has characters like Teddy interacting with Wyatt. After all, you hear the name Wyatt and you think Wyatt Earp, and bringing righteousness to the lawless West.

Back to Teddy - it seems he's not an homage to a dead William/Logan. He's obviously one of the oldest hosts in the park if he's shooting up beta village. Maybe he was there at the start of Arnolds revolution, and the welcome hostess is waiting for him to remember that.

Whatever the case, I expect wild machinations from Ford the rest of the season. I also like the conjecture about Elsie.

[melodramocracy]

Hoping the season finale is good, this show is getting a bit messy / ridiculous in its delivery.

[Azrile]

I really think you guys are ´thinking´ to much about the MIB and William thing. I do not think there are all these time-lines.. I think there are just a couple of hosts that have strong memories and just remember stuff they shouldn´t be remembering. MIB is basically what he says he is.. Someone who spent too much time there and wants to solve the ultimate game... which seems to be ´what is the purpose of the project´..