Legendary drops

[Not A Cat]

I got my first legendary today, it was Prydaz...

I would rather have not gotten a legendary

[Deavane]

Hhahahahaha. Fucking ace man. I hope you realize that legendaries equipped are listed in the logs. Out of a samplesize of 15k, you can be certain that a large part of them already have the good frost legendaries.

A legendary can have a huge impact on dps. But the better player will generally always have better performance. A legendary doesn't fix your positioning during a fight (which is hugely important to be able to squeeze out maximum dps) and proper skill usage during a fight. (ex: Timing Full moon drops as a balance druid for Ursoc add. Knowing which spells you can squeeze in prior to a knockback so you don't waste any cast time. when to dump resources, and when to pool them for specific parts in an encounter. etc). A legendary doesn't compensate for those core parts of what actually makes a good dps player.

Your bis legendaries will only increase your maximal potential output, and in the hands of a mediocre player, the added benefit of those legendaries are diminished because they're nowhere near that maximal potential output in an actual encounter setting.
It's only really in top end that Legendaries really start to play a role. That is, 100-90ish percentile logs, top world raiding guilds, etc. Because those players are reaching their maximal potential output.
For anyone not in that top percentages, your legendaries don't really play a role in your raid spot if your raid leader isn't mentally retarded. And if it affects you, there is a simple solution, leave your bottom end trade chat guild and join one that is managed by people with brains. Or start your own, with blackjack and hookers.

Suppose you're right. I care about top end though. Very discouraging system for players who do everything in their power to put up the best numbers, but still fall behind people who are playing just a well, but have optimal legendaries as well (4 utility legendaries FTW).

Note: I'd be interested how many Frost DKs have the BIS frost legs. Bet there's a good majority who have multiple unholy legendaries and very few if any frost.

[Korbynn]

No, they can't. Read my updated post. Positioning and proper execution of a fight is far more important than whatever legendary you have in terms of dps. A few small mistakes in your positioning or ability usage can literally cost you more dps than what a legendary can offer you. You don't have to be a dribbling moron to mess that up either.
There are currently a few problem legendaries, such as the unholy bracers, that have a huge impact on your dps, but if you're now playing unholy, you're a dribbling moron either way. But again, back when Unholy was the better spec, I still outperformed people with the bracers despite not having them.

I'd like to see an actual worse player outperform a better one just by having better legendaries in an actual boss fight scenario. You put forth this claim, please, prove it. Provide me with some statistical evidence. The burden of proof lies with you, not with me.

If you're salty about being beaten in dps just because someone had a legendary, it's most likely because you dun goofed somewhere else.

I've been playing for 12 years, and I have over 2.5 years logged. I've been gauging on a first hand basis, the differentials between players with bis legendaries vs players without, and I can aptly say that 'positioning and proper execution' are the self-deluding words of a puffed up ego stuffed inside an MMO fantasy.

Sure you can anticipate and capitalize on opportune elements in an encounter, but when we're talking about a 40k to 100k bis buffer, it would literally have to involve competing against a mentally challenged player.

[Kensio]

I just read a post about Legendary drops using Player A and Player B as an example. Player A sits around in Stormwind but when he actually ends up in a possible legendary drop dungeon he gets the Legendary drop. Player B works nonstop at the game goes everywhere hoping for the L drop and is unlucky. Blizzards reasoning regarding "getting a raid spot" is foolish. Blizzard says well obviously Player B the 'nonstop worker' will get the spot. Wow what wrong thinking. All raid leaders care about is putting people in the progression raid who are geared and who "put out dps". Besides being a "nonstop worker" you have to be geared and "putting out good dps". It is imaginary to think that the people in the guilds have social relationships where they know their guild members. Sure they know some whoever in real life "still" plays with them but to suggest that when you get in a guild that the officers actually know their guild members and follow their dedication is pushing it at this point in WoW developement. I started in 2004 and yes there was a point where you were able to get into progression based on your dedication and your 'trying' despite the fact that you had no legendaries or great drops but those days are long gone... LONG GONE. Raid Leaders really don't care if you do this or do that . All they look at is your gear and your dps period. But I do see Raid Leaders immediate families being included as well as given titles. So for the most part Blizzard has their collective head in the clouds when it comes to setting up Legendary drops plus having the audacity to suggest that because Player B is a nice guy and dedicated player despite the fact that he is not wearing Legendary anything that the Raid Leader will recognize all that and give him a spot in the progression raid. Please let me know the name of the guilds and Progression Raid Leaders that do that as I would like to apply to those guilds. I love Progression but only the uber geared and uber dps get to go. Period.

Holy mother of text wall

[Meiffert]

Which legendary?
And do you have proof for it?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution

Look at the top 25 parses (top 1/3). Every single one of them has either the cloak or the ring, many have both
Now look at the bottom 25 (bottom 1/3), most have Prydaz, Sephuz, boots, belt, bracers.

Do you really think it's a coincidence?

Now look at the damage. The people with wrong legendaries are doing 400k dps. The people with cloak/ring do 470 - 500k+.
That is the 20 % difference right there. Not only that, you need to average about 430k on your damage dealers to beat the enrage timer. The legendaries are literally the difference between not being able to beat the encounter before berserk without being carried and exceeding the required dps by a comfortable margin. It literally makes or breaks this fight.


Will the best player in the world beat my grandma regardless of the legendaries? Yes, he will. Do they play in the same guild or environment in general? No, they don't.
People within the same guild are generally at similar level (similar, not equal). Yes, one can be slightly better, but if you get 20 % extra dps based on your legendaries, it will easily overshadow the difference of players who are reasonably close in skill (close enough to play in the same guild).

We are not asking to be mailed all the rewards instantly, we are willing to work for them. But this is not instant gratification that we ask for, one raid instance is already over and seconds one is finishing as we speak. Players have been benched for many bosses in two different raid instances so far based solely on their luck with oranges. I don't think that's ok.

[klaps_05]

I've been playing for 12 years, and I have over 2.5 years logged. I've been gauging on a first hand basis, the differentials between players with bis legendaries vs players without, and I can aptly say that 'positioning and proper execution' are the self-deluding words of a puffed up ego stuffed inside an MMO fantasy.

Sure you can anticipate and capitalize on opportune elements in an encounter, but when we're talking about a 40k to 100k bis buffer, it would literally have to involve competing against a mentally challenged player.

Needed to second this - people think that knowing when a boss does knockback or where to position in order to maximize casts somehow wins the dmg meters. items win the dmg meters.

As a player who has been parsing on the old WoL in top3 spots for more than 3 expansions, positioning matters, but only for mechanics that will kill you. so yes, if your full-of-legendaries-casual friend fucks up guarm colors, he wont win vs a prydaz-only-pro-player, but eventually everyone learns how to use ice floes or shimmer, or just not get assigned colors. with 0-legendaries you can literally sit in the middle on the bridge for guarm and spend every single GCD on dmg, but one of his pyros which hits for nearly 3 million with bracers will dump on your dps. with 890 ilevel my pyros crit for about 500k-ish, bracer-pyro hits for nearly 3 million - so i need to spend 6 GCDs to his 4 sec cast, my GCD is at 1.32(approx, at work atm), so 7.92s vs 4s for 3 million dmg.

tldr: unless u fuckup one shot mechanic, legendaries > positioning

[Lestrang]

Actually friend IRL got 2 bis legendaries for retri within 2 weeks of dinging 110, and now he can put as much dps as most of our mythic raiders and he is actually getting put on our mythic cenarius progression even though he didnt raid mythic before but yeah, playing the game isnt so fucking hard, but having luck decide if u are able to do 100k+ dps (or hps) extra is totally unfair and actually an insult for the unlucky. Been doing every emissary, daily heroic, normal heroic lfr +mythic raid kills and mythic+ dungeons every week, 2 shitty utility legendaries, meanwhile other healers in my group got 3 or 4 and they actually increase their hps, yes salty

[Raugnaut]

Grreat, so that 30% (the ones that get decent legendaries) can have their "oh wow moment", 70% need to have their "oh fuck you" moment? May the house you build on the misery of others crumble beneath your feet. :P
The system is awful and there is no way blizzard will ever manage to actually balance legendaries. They can't even manage to balance fucking potions (like old war) to perform similarily for all classes, let alone balance different playstyles within a spec and how legendaries affect them.

As can be seen, Blizzard is in the process of nerfing the BiS legendaries, and buffing the underused ones. Of course, this will result in specs with great legendaries being nerfed, and classes with poor legendaries being buffed. Not much else you can really do though.

[tikcol]

Nasty legendaries, useless progression mechanic. Remove at once

[BannedForViews]

The real issue is that there are shitty legendaries and getting them makes it harder to get the good ones (yes the odds on next roll go up for the one you want, but it takes a long time in between them).

They would have been better off having fewer legendaries and making them all good dps gains or all utility benefits. If there were only 3 legendaries per class/spec though and you can only equip 2, you kinda know what you're getting into. You can even make the odds of getting them lower but people will feel good when they get one. It should never be a "FUCK YOU" moment to get the drop.

[trm90]

I share the same opinion as Exorsus, legendaries should have just been utility. They wouldn't have been as exciting, but still neat perks. What would have remained was one or two utility legendaries per class, e.g. Gateway leggings, Blessing duration/heal bracers, Feign Death mask, and so on - plus the armor-shared legendaries like Shaldrassil, Aggramar's, or Norgannon's. Basically the kind of shit which is super useful in outdoor PvP/PvE but only semi-useful in instanced PvE.

I appreciate the awesome buffs you get with legendaries, but let's be real, the utility ones actually have flavour. The rest are just flat out increases to your DPS/HPS/tankability, and only a few legendaries will actually affect your rotation.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution

Look at the top 25 parses (top 1/3). Every single one of them has either the cloak or the ring, many have both
Now look at the bottom 25 (bottom 1/3), most have Prydaz, Sephuz, boots, belt, bracers.

Do you really think it's a coincidence?

Now look at the damage. The people with wrong legendaries are doing 400k dps. The people with cloak/ring do 470 - 500k+.
That is the 20 % difference right there. Not only that, you need to average about 430k on your damage dealers to beat the enrage timer. The legendaries are literally the difference between not being able to beat the encounter before berserk without being carried and exceeding the required dps by a comfortable margin. It literally makes or breaks this fight.


Will the best player in the world beat my grandma regardless of the legendaries? Yes, he will. Do they play in the same guild or environment in general? No, they don't.
People within the same guild are generally at similar level (similar, not equal). Yes, one can be slightly better, but if you get 20 % extra dps based on your legendaries, it will easily overshadow the difference of players who are reasonably close in skill (close enough to play in the same guild).

We are not asking to be mailed all the rewards instantly, we are willing to work for them. But this is not instant gratification that we ask for, one raid instance is already over and seconds one is finishing as we speak. Players have been benched for many bosses in two different raid instances so far based solely on their luck with oranges. I don't think that's ok.

That's my biggest concern at this point. We can say 2 raid instances have already finished, and many of us are yet to lay hands on our BiS legendaries. For how long are we, the unlucky players, are supposed to wait before we get our BiS legendary and discover the full potential of our classes? Nighthold is coming in about 2 months from now, and it will take roughly a month for most guilds to finish the content. So we are talking about a 3 month time frame here, what if we wont get our bis legendaries in this 3 month period? Are we just supposed to say "well okay, nearly half of the expansion is done but I still dont have my bis legendary. Hopefully I will get it at the end of the expansion, when it doesnt matter anymore!". It is completely possible that an unlucky player will get all other 7 legendaires except the bis one for a very, very long time. I'm talking about 7-8 months from now. How is that fun and fair for unlucky players? Some people have been playing with their BiS legendaries for 2-3 months now, and some people are not going to get it even in 7-8 months. Seriously, how is that fair?

You made another really good point in your post, players that are playing in the same guild are players with equal skill level. Of course there are always exceptions, but that's not the case. So let's talk about a guild that is consistently getting top 500 ranks in the world. Generally in these kind of guilds, there are 22-25 active raiders that are rotated through the progress depending on the fight AND their gear. Gear, in this expansion, makes a much more impact compared to how much it did in the past because now we have game changing legendaries that are on PURE LUCK basis. So in this top 500 guild, lets say there are 2 arms warriors. One was lucky enough to get the ring and the gloves, which are bis for arms warrior and which provide over 60-70k dps boost together. The other one was unlucky, and got like prydaz/sephuz, or any other legendary that is not bis ring or gloves. How is the unlucky player supposed to get a raid spot over the other warrior? Don't tell me "skill bla bla" because everybody knows that in a guild players are generally at the same skill level. Besides that, you can't be an absolute derp and still play in a top 500 guild because they will simply not recruit you with horrible logs. If you are playing in a top 500 guild, it means you are able to understand the mechanics, make use of add ons in an effective way and have a great knowledge about your class.

So people who are supporting the legendary system, please enlighten me how, just how in this kind of situation the unlucky player is supposed to get a raid spot? What can the unlucky player do about this situation other than praying for good luck? What if the unlucky player wont get his bis legendaries for another couple of months, for a new raid tier? Is he just supposed to be okay to be benched because he was simply unlucky with the legendary drops?

[Zabatakis]

I'm sorry what? The Legendaries since 2.0 (with special effects instead of item pushing boring stuff) is what saved the game. They tried to do this with WoW where all items are just boring stat pushing stuff, so they made legendaries with unique effects to make things a bit more interesting for the player once he gets one.

You misunderstood me. I was referring to the initial period when you could get a legendary after days of farming just for it to be a total piece of crap (sephuz secret for most specs is terrible, it does not even give main stat to be a dps upgrade in many cases, there are other examples) and the feeling of disappointment after all that work is truly epic. Hence why people left that game in droves and its initial release widely considered a bag of crap. The revamp was a massive improvement and I am surprised they didn't learn from that whole experience.

[Splenda]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ssion-(Legion)