How close are UNH and FR (when raiding)?

[Coro]

Hello All,

I just got back from a break and reading that frost 'is better all the way around' then Unholy in mythic+ as well as raiding. My guild has cleared all 7/7 heroic EN, working on Odyn heroic.

I was told that our biggest issue right now is DPS and so they asked me to come back. With that being said, I don't want to gimp the guild by being the lower DPS spec.

Currently I have a lot more AP in UH and the lego bracers, but I have high AK so I can fix that pretty quick and get into Frost if it's that much ahead. Thoughts?

[dmchellfire]

My personal findings, and I have been playing Unholy since launch (34 traits in), Unholy is still better for pure single target fights with the correct gear and stats, and if you have the wrists, it's a no-brainer, where as Frost is amazing in M+, and does a fantastic job with the AOE Frost Scythe build

I am currently ilvl 883, with 31% crit, 20% haste, and 50% Mastery, and to give you an idea, I still hit between 700-800K burst with my opener on Hero pulls, and maintain 400K+ dps on most fights, but where the real issue comes in is about 3-4 minutes into the fight where Unholy's undertuning really starts to surface in our sustained damage which takes a major knock, but that said, you shouldn't experience much of this since you already have the wrists. The opener, rotation and rune/wound management is a bit more complex in Unholy, compared to Frost, which has a very easy rotation, and great sustained damage

I can see myself finishing in the top 5 on most Mythic encounters with my current gear if I had the wrists, but without it, you would be lucky to be in the top 10, unless your guild has some poor players, so consider yourself extremely lucky to have them, and definitely play Unholy

For Trinkets, aim at Eye of Command from Karazhan, and the second could be a raw stat trinket, I personally use an 865 Pure stat crit trinket, but there are a couple of good options here depending on your current stats - Many people recommend Momento from Mythic MOS as well

[exeetor]

with leggy bracers stick with unholy I would say... then again, not much can compare to NOT having a pet
I find frost much more fun to play, always loved the high hitting skills in the game, (always play destruction as warlock for example.)
But if u want to gain as much as possible I would prob say stay unholy

[Deleted]

with leggy bracers stick with unholy I would say... then again, not much can compare to NOT having a pet
I find frost much more fun to play, always loved the high hitting skills in the game, (always play destruction as warlock for example.)
But if u want to gain as much as possible I would prob say stay unholy

Hello,

i am longtime Lurker but now Registered to comment on some Informations

Dunno where u got the idea... I have 35 Traits in Both Unholy and Frost. I have BiS Unholy Bracers and Shoulders. I have 0 Frost legendarys...

My Frost Sims and Hits harder then Unholy Single Target by 15-20K Dps. I tested Unholy and Frost in raids, and i can confirm that the Sims are right.

I am currently 2/3 ToV Mythic.

Unholy "CAN" hit harder then Frost, but the Problem is the shitty RNG it has. Its not like Unholy requires high skillcap, its just a Build that is havely based on RNG.

Even if your Frost Spec should Sim Lower then Unholy, you should still play Frost, cause it doesnt require Luck. Maybe u wont have a very high burst phase, but u have steady DPS throughout the whole Fight.

[Dyas]

My experience has been similar to dmchellfire's. I have been unholy, and am also AP level 34. I also have the legendary bracers and the ring (which is a very nice compliment). Given these 2 legendaries, I generally do well, but even then, it's a toss up with Frost. Many of the top DKs on my servers, even with the legendary UH bracers have switched to Frost, with amazing results.

Personally, given the lack of scaling improvement for UH on the ptr, I would tell you to switch your loot spec to Frost. Get some good relics, get a few AP levels, and from what I've seen, you should come out ahead. Even with my two strong UH dps legendaries, I am doing the same. Once I get some good Frost relics and a few more AP levels in it, I'll probably switch, unless some worthwhile buffs are announced in the 7.1.5 ptr notes someday.

[Deleted]

Guys, you never surprise me. OF COURSE people switch to Frost in ToV(UH is doing best on 2nd boss, frost is doing best on 1/3 boss, solely because it's easier to target switch on Frost and that is the biggest weakness on UH). The difference between well geared Frost and UH is not that big either, so they just stick with Frost.

It makes NO SENSE what so ever, that you switch to Frost with BiS UH gear(not even remotely, as a patch is out in 4-6 weeks, buffing the UH). That is just stupidity. But your call.

[Deleted]

I was unholy until this past weekend, I was curious and started tuning my gear to see how much I could pull with frost and I don't think i'm going back anytime soon.

I have the legendary bracers and shoulders for unholy and my gear tuned up for it (30%+ crit, and almost 20% haste) [I know, I still have work to do]

I was simming 360k dps with unholy (31 points on weapon) and after the tuning I've ended up with 340k dps on simulations (single target only).

I just don't see the point on staying unholy, i'm only 20k dps "behind" (if there is a small cleave i'll pull ahead) with -2 legendaries and 6 points behind in the weapon (no 3rd gold trait).

On frost I have 30% crit, 20% haste and working on my 8% vers (currently at 3%) and i'm still ahead of unholy on most fights (I'll stay on unholy for some small fights)

And before someone says i'm horrible with unholy, it's the other way around, i'm parsing 50/60% on frost while I was parsing 80%+ on Unholy. I know 80% is not that good but 50% frost is still better than 80% unholy.

Pity.

[Deleted]

I was unholy until this past weekend, I was curious and started tuning my gear to see how much I could pull with frost and I don't think i'm going back anytime soon.

I have the legendary bracers and shoulders for unholy and my gear tuned up for it (30%+ crit, and almost 20% haste) [I know, I still have work to do]

I was simming 360k dps with unholy (31 points on weapon) and after the tuning I've ended up with 340k dps on simulations (single target only).

I just don't see the point on staying unholy, i'm only 20k dps "behind" (if there is a small cleave i'll pull ahead) with -2 legendaries and 6 points behind in the weapon (no 3rd gold trait).

On frost I have 30% crit, 20% haste and working on my 8% vers (currently at 3%) and i'm still ahead of unholy on most fights (I'll stay on unholy for some small fights)

And before someone says i'm horrible with unholy, it's the other way around, i'm parsing 50/60% on frost while I was parsing 80%+ on Unholy. I know 80% is not that good but 50% frost is still better than 80% unholy.

Pity.

Yep.

Go roll the Frost, see the buffs in 7.1.5 come back to UH(the value of your legendaries will even increase further).

All mighty casual tinker.

And BTW - you have to compare fx 80% Frost parse vs. 80% UH parse. Everything else is misleading.

[Deleted]

Yep.

Go roll the Frost, see the buffs in 7.1.5 come back to UH(the value of your legendaries will even increase further).

All mighty casual tinker.

Of course I will play the spec that does the most damage, I care for muy guild and raid and i'll help them as much as I can.

[Deleted]

Guys, you never surprise me. OF COURSE people switch to Frost in ToV(UH is doing best on 2nd boss, frost is doing best on 1/3 boss, solely because it's easier to target switch on Frost and that is the biggest weakness on UH). The difference between well geared Frost and UH is not that big either, so they just stick with Frost.

It makes NO SENSE what so ever, that you switch to Frost with BiS UH gear(not even remotely, as a patch is out in 4-6 weeks, buffing the UH). That is just stupidity. But your call.

I dont think u should call someone stupid cause he not the same opinion as u would like...

And i think you should write what is truth... Frost is superior on BOSS 1 . Unholy is good and Frost is Superior on Boss 2.
If u look at the Logs, alot of people who are frost, doesnt event have a single BIS Leg for Frost and they are still beating a lot of Unholy BIS Players...

Rank 1 Guarm is Frostdk with ONLY 1 Good Leg for frost NOT BIS!! And now think about it, how hard would someone with BIS Frost leg outdps a BIS Leg Unholy Player...

Even if Unholy would get Buffed where it would significantly outdps Frost(I dont think it would happen), Unholy is still very rng based.

If the 2 Speccs would do the same dmg, i would prefer to play Frost, cause frost is less RNG and doesnt require dumb Pet to be a big part of your DMG.

And ofc your Ram up time as Frost is much faster.

[Deleted]

I dont think u should call someone stupid cause he not the same opinion as u would like...

And i think you should write what is truth... Frost is superior on BOSS 1 . Unholy is good and Frost is Superior on Boss 2.
If u look at the Logs, alot of people who are frost, doesnt event have a single BIS Leg for Frost and they are still beating a lot of Unholy BIS Players...

Rank 1 Guarm is Frostdk with ONLY 1 Good Leg for frost NOT BIS!! And now think about it, how hard would someone with BIS Frost leg outdps a BIS Leg Unholy Player...

Even if Unholy would get Buffed where it would significantly outdps Frost(I dont think it would happen), Unholy is still very rng based.

If the 2 Speccs would do the same dmg, i would prefer to play Frost, cause frost is less RNG and doesnt require dumb Pet to be a big part of your DMG.

And ofc your Ram up time as Frost is much faster.

Unholy is clearly better at Guarm. Mostly due to the short fight duration and the nice opening burst with Army of the Dead.
You can also make an argument for unholy on Odyn, since its stronger than frost in P3. If that is what your guild is struggeling with.
I cannot comment on Helya just yet, but it seems to be more suited to Frost DKs. However, I´ve seen a video of an UH DK doing quite ok there.

[Deleted]

I dont think u should call someone stupid cause he not the same opinion as u would like...

And i think you should write what is truth... Frost is superior on BOSS 1 . Unholy is good and Frost is Superior on Boss 2.
If u look at the Logs, alot of people who are frost, doesnt event have a single BIS Leg for Frost and they are still beating a lot of Unholy BIS Players...

Rank 1 Guarm is Frostdk with ONLY 1 Good Leg for frost NOT BIS!! And now think about it, how hard would someone with BIS Frost leg outdps a BIS Leg Unholy Player...

Even if Unholy would get Buffed where it would significantly outdps Frost(I dont think it would happen), Unholy is still very rng based.

If the 2 Speccs would do the same dmg, i would prefer to play Frost, cause frost is less RNG and doesnt require dumb Pet to be a big part of your DMG.

And ofc your Ram up time as Frost is much faster.

Logs is representing 1 thing:

That people go Frost. We got less playing UH. That is something to do with that Frost are easier on Mythic, PvP and ToV. Thats a fact. They are doing good in these instances.

Frost is doing better on boss 1 and 3(just as I said), while on 2nd they can both fight for it.

If you have 2 BiS legendaries on UH, you make no sense rolling a Frost, other than filling your casual needs(OR, you are playing it smart if you are swapping from fight to fight, from content to content). The value will increase when they getting thier buffs.

Stop discovering the wheel again and again guys. Just play whatever you find fun(for me that is UH).

[Deleted]

Logs is representing 1 thing:

That people go Frost. We got less playing UH. That is something to do with they are easier on Mythic, PvP and ToV. Thats a fact.

Frost is doing better on boss 1 and 3(just as I said), while on 2nd they can both fight for it.
If you have 2 BiS legendaries on UH, you make no sense rolling a Frost, other than filling your casual needs(OR, you are playing it smart if you are swapping from fight to fight, from content to content).

Check the logs on the top frost parses for ToV or even EN, you'll see plenty of top players using unholy legendaries as frost, even the bracers.

Frost is better EVEN with UH bracers. Maybe if you have the bracers + ring/belt it's closer, but if you don't have BOTH (meaning bracers + shoulders or any generic legendary) frost is simply superior, Bracers or not.


Look at this shit:

Top parses for Nythendra (supposedly best for unholy)

Frost: http://imgur.com/a/JmcMl

Unholy: http://imgur.com/a/V2y7Z

The top parser for frost even have the 2 BIS legendaries for Unholy.

Yeah, Unholy is fine and it's only a personal preference.

[Deleted]

Unholy is clearly better at Guarm. Mostly due to the short fight duration and the nice opening burst with Army of the Dead.
You can also make an argument for unholy on Odyn, since its stronger than frost in P3. If that is what your guild is struggeling with.
I cannot comment on Helya just yet, but it seems to be more suited to Frost DKs. However, I´ve seen a video of an UH DK doing quite ok there.

UH is not Better on Guarm then Frost.... it doesnt matter how short the fight is. U need to compare Frost BIS Leg DKs with UH BIS Leg Dks ... and even then u see alot of good UH players do less DPS then awarage FROST players... And thats thx to that shitty RNG UH has.

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Logs is representing 1 thing:

That people go Frost. We got less playing UH. That is something to do with that Frost are easier on Mythic, PvP and ToV. Thats a fact. They are doing good in these instances.

Frost is doing better on boss 1 and 3(just as I said), while on 2nd they can both fight for it.

If you have 2 BiS legendaries on UH, you make no sense rolling a Frost, other than filling your casual needs(OR, you are playing it smart if you are swapping from fight to fight, from content to content). The value will increase when they getting thier buffs.

Stop discovering the wheel again and again guys. Just play whatever you find fun(for me that is UH).

There are equal Frost and UH players... it changed cause many people switched to frost, where we had 0 Frost players before the buffs..

I have BIS Legs for UH, and i am still doing way less DMG as UH with them... Why should i stay UH ?

I dont want to sound rude...but telling me Frost is easier to play then UH shows me that u have no clue about DKs...

Frost needs to Keep Icy Talons Buff up all the time without a single loss, cause it will be a big DMG loss..

Where UH dont need to do anything... just pray to RNG to be more effective...

Right now as Today, Frost require way more Skill to play as UH......

Like some wise Orc once said: Times change....

[Deleted]

UH is not Better on Guarm then Frost.... it doesnt matter how short the fight is. U need to compare Frost BIS Leg DKs with UH BIS Leg Dks ... and even then u see alot of good UH players do less DPS then awarage FROST players... And thats thx to that shitty RNG UH has.

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There are equal Frost and UH players... it changed cause many people switched to frost, where we had 0 Frost players before the buffs..

I have BIS Legs for UH, and i am still doing way less DMG as UH with them... Why should i stay UH ?

I dont want to sound rude...but telling me Frost is easier to play then UH shows me that u have no clue about DKs...

Frost needs to Keep Icy Talons Buff up all the time without a single loss, cause it will be a big DMG loss..

Where UH dont need to do anything... just pray to RNG to be more effective...

Right now as Today, Frost require way more Skill to play as UH......

Like some wise Orc once said: Times change....

oh yeah high skill cap to push at least every 6 seconds frost strike

[Deleted]

oh yeah high skill cap to push at least every 6 seconds frost strike

The Problem is, during the period of 6 Seconds u need to do dmg and watch to still have enouph RP to use FS....

Maybe not the hardest task, but in comparison to UH in terms of difficulty its like day and night...

[Deleted]

as a patch is out in 4-6 weeks, buffing the UH).

He still believes in blizzard, the absolute madman

On the topic at hand, Frost beats unholy on average (except for guarm) aswell as in all records on every boss. Some of those Frost DKs have done it with their unholy legendaries.

[0verdose]

UH is not Better on Guarm then Frost.... it doesnt matter how short the fight is. U need to compare Frost BIS Leg DKs with UH BIS Leg Dks ... and even then u see alot of good UH players do less DPS then awarage FROST players... And thats thx to that shitty RNG UH has.

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There are equal Frost and UH players... it changed cause many people switched to frost, where we had 0 Frost players before the buffs..

I have BIS Legs for UH, and i am still doing way less DMG as UH with them... Why should i stay UH ?

I dont want to sound rude...but telling me Frost is easier to play then UH shows me that u have no clue about DKs...

Frost needs to Keep Icy Talons Buff up all the time without a single loss, cause it will be a big DMG loss..

Where UH dont need to do anything... just pray to RNG to be more effective...

Right now as Today, Frost require way more Skill to play as UH......

Like some wise Orc once said: Times change....

Why is it always the lurkers who come out and claim to be current content mythic raiders... you think frost is hard? That shits laughable. If you have any problems monitoring IT slap a wa on and problem solved. Never have to worry about IT falling off ever. If you can't manage doing dps while making sure to save rp for frost strike to keep the buff up, you don't belong in mythic ToV. Neither spec is difficult to play, but saying frost is more difficult than unholy is still hilarious even though the gap has closed a bit I guess.
Btw, you are doing more dps with frost because frost is just a superior spec rn. Aside from the top tier 100% parse unholy dks, frost will beat it out.

[Deleted]

Why is it always the lurkers who come out and claim to be current content mythic raiders... you think frost is hard? That shits laughable. If you have any problems monitoring IT slap a wa on and problem solved. Never have to worry about IT falling off ever. If you can't manage doing dps while making sure to save rp for frost strike to keep the buff up, you don't belong in mythic ToV. Neither spec is difficult to play, but saying frost is more difficult than unholy is still hilarious even though the gap has closed a bit I guess.
Btw, you are doing more dps with frost because frost is just a superior spec rn. Aside from the top tier 100% parse unholy dks, frost will beat it out.

Hello 0verdose,

i dont need to claim it , to be true...
You can look my name "Fanakk" on warcraftlogs and u can pm me on my Server if u think i am lying.

Why i did registered right now, is because if people trying to get Help what do play etc.... and other people who are raiding LFR professionally are trying to give them advices what to do... thats where i wanted to, really help that people with facts not with "baseless facts with future "blizzard will fix uh dk" dreams

I dont claim Frost is hard to play, maybe next time you try to read and not write ur overrushed posts...

I only told that if u compare Frost to Unholy, unholy ist way more easier to play and thats is true.

I dont understand everything u wrote like that sentence "rn", but like i stated in other posts where u should first read and dont rage at posts u dont like...

Unholy ist rng based and if both specs doing the same amount of dmg... i wont play a spec where i need a huge amount of luck to do dps...

If u compare 100% parse Unholy with BIS Legs and Frost 100% Pase with BIS legs... not even here will unholy beat frost.

U cant even compare right now, because not many people have both bis frost legs, where theres is a huge amount of people with bis unholy and they still loose to frost without legs..

Not because they are bad, but because that spec is rng base clownfiesta...nothing more...

[Deleted]

So what its RNG omfg.

What is it people.

What IF I LIKE RNG? What is the advantage of RNG? That's right - a roller coaster experience. You don't have that as Frost(which again, can be a thing for some people).

Stop filling this community with so much BS.

If you don't like UH then move on. I rather play the inferior spec than superior ending up beating people who takes the shortest cut all the time.

Besides not a SINGLE mind mentioned "oh guys... ehm... you know you can play both?".