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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiftyonred View Post
    PvP finally got their own talents, classes generally play very well, ...
    ROFL

    The biggest reason Legion is not praised universally and is usually viewed as "good, certainly better than WoD, but ..." is class design / ability pruning. Talk about a completely unnecessary turmoil that took tons of development resources and made many things worse instead of better.

    And the second biggest reason is PVP not just being in ruins as is usual in the first patch of every addon, but being such crap that the ladder is now about 60% of what it was during WoD. Yes, really. I figure you don't really PVP and are talking about things like PVP talents just because you heard something about them and thought that they should be good. Surprise - PVP talents are perhaps not a bad thing, but they are a small nit in a sea of changes, and other big changes which affect PVP were terrible.
    Last edited by rda; 2016-11-29 at 02:18 PM.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    You are not forced. The more content the better. Stop whining and develop some self discipline.
    bingo.

    /10char

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkej View Post
    I have 2 chars with 35 traits, or well, almost. One is 35 and one is 34, but iv ben behind on AK since i rerolled late september. Thing is here I dont mind that you can grind a lot to get AP - Some like it and sure thing, they can do.

    My problem bottoms in that to prepare for the most, current, endgame content there is, you are forced to grind M+ got get as prepared as possible, rather then perform as good as possible in the raids.
    No it is just that you feel the need to do so. Guess what? The true cutting edge top of the food chain Raiders found a way to do the raids without maxed out weapons and such. Once tier gear comes out raids will once again have the best gear. That is the biggest key here we haven't actually gotten to the first raid tier yet. Yet you feel the need to have a maxed out weapon and bis gear. I think it is you that has the problem not the game.

  4. #144
    Deleted
    Not every game has to be endless, there's a reason so many of us got tired of Diablo3.

    Imagine you are a 5 man player and someone tells you to do pet battles to get geared/APed up for your M+, would you enjoy it "because there's atleast content"?

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiftyonred View Post
    I got no idea where you get this from. This is the best expansion i have ever played, which is a statement shared with all i play with (and we started pre-tbc).
    There is always something to do, some way to progress, raids are great and mythic+ content is the fucking best invention ever!

    Gearing is perfect, as you are not forced to rely on 19 morons to do hard content, but can do the same degree of difficulty with a small core group, with must more room for using the full utility of your class.

    PvP finally got their own talents, classes generally play very well, and if you want to grind, you can do that through the same awesome dailys which gets you power and gear, for reputations and professions.

    And, lets not forget the genious of how warforged / titanforged works.

    10/10 - and tbh if you dont like it, i think its time to accept you are part of a very minor vocal minority, and needs to play another game.

    Basically "everyone" got everything they asked for, but yet some of you still bitch around.
    Odd, everyone I play with says it's the worst expantion or at least in the same league as WoD and large parts of my guild are made up of people I played with since vanilla.
    To be honest, the only people I've seen that actually like Legions gearing and AP system is this small group of white knights here on MM-C. Like you.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Except one takes 20 players and the other only five. Five man content should never drop gear that is better than mythic raiding. And, due to shit itemization, many of the best pieces of gear are from other content. Gg Blizz, gg.
    AV takes 80 people should it also drop the best gear?
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  7. #147
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by empo View Post
    Not every game has to be endless, there's a reason so many of us got tired of Diablo3.

    Imagine you are a 5 man player and someone tells you to do pet battles to get geared/APed up for your M+, would you enjoy it "because there's atleast content"?
    Errrr don't forget that WoW is a subscription based game, not like Diablo.
    Game over? No more $$ for Blizzard.
    And this wuold be a economically bad move from them.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Last time Blizzard removed the "need" to do stuff outside of raiding in order to gain character power, we lost 6 million subs.
    See, a very large part of the playerbase don't raid as the main part of their gameplay, and removing the rewards outside of raids will only be a repeat of WoD.

    This plague of people saying they are "forced" to do things to stay at the front in an MMO nearly killed the game as the result of that shit during MoP gave us WoD.
    That's a cool story and all, but Legion is the first expansion pack where you need to do something other than raids for character power once you have started raiding progression.. I don't recall WoW losing 6million subs in TBC and WOTLK.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Not forced to be viable, but definitely forced to be competitive. A lot of the best items drop from Mythic plus or Karazhan, the majority of them infact. And with AP farming being key to character progression you really are technically forced to do other content to be competitive. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily but for sure it kills that large group of high progression players who only logged on to raid, and were able to be optimal because 100% of character progression was done in raids.
    So you want wod's design back? Because that is what you are describing the raid or die system we had last expansion. How did that work out for the game overall? Pretty bad as the game lost the most subs at the quickest rate ever.
    So no, that was not a good system nor good for the game

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Odd, everyone I play with says it's the worst expantion or at least in the same league as WoD and large parts of my guild are made up of people I played with since vanilla.
    To be honest, the only people I've seen that actually like Legions gearing and AP system is this small group of white knights here on MM-C. Like you.
    Yeah, sure they do. If Legion is the worst expansion to them, or consider Legion to be on par with WoD, they really ought to find another game. Because it's obvious they don't enjoy the game anymore.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
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    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Odd, everyone I play with says it's the worst expantion or at least in the same league as WoD and large parts of my guild are made up of people I played with since vanilla.
    To be honest, the only people I've seen that actually like Legions gearing and AP system is this small group of white knights here on MM-C. Like you.
    Regarding what people think about the expansion in general, outside of personal anecdotes, here's an activity graph:



    I think Legion is a good expansion.

    But the amount of goodwill that got a significant injection at Blizzcon with its news regarding 7.1.5 and 7.2, etc, is not infinite. They have to deliver or it will evaporate, and it's been three weeks already.

    You can see it in the graph, too, people are losing interest.

    They have to release 7.1.5 soon, really soon.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Gawdsent View Post
    The grind to 35 traits, and all you get out of it is a 5% damage increase. I wouldnt rush it to much. And if you want to be in a mythic raiding guild thats what expected of you tbh, you chose this yourself. Want to be more relaxed and not having to be ahead of everything all the time? Stop raiding mythic........ and find something more casual.

    I'm not bashing you for not being happy about mythic + or even the AP grind. But when you mention in your first three sentences that your a mythic raider and then you go ahead and complain about the fact that you have to stay on top of your shit all the time, well... You done fucked up son.
    so youre saying that in order to access the only challenging part of this game you have to go through mind-numbingly easy parts of the game every day for hours? relatively speaking ofcourse, i understand that for someone normal is challenging and thats completely ok, but for someone capable of doing mythic, the rest of the game is a joke.

  13. #153
    I personally love mythic+ (in fact, I'm forgoing all raiding so far in Legion), but I don't fully disagree with OP, the farmable content (WQs and m+) have a little too much AP potential to be ignored. A solution is not to bring mythic+ back to what it used to be though, but rather a cap to the maximum AP you can get per week.

    I know Blizzard purposefully avoided doing that, but as AP levels are just going to keep increasing, we're going to really need that to avoid having all the hardcore people burn out completely.

  14. #154
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Odd, everyone I play with says it's the worst expantion or at least in the same league as WoD and large parts of my guild are made up of people I played with since vanilla.
    To be honest, the only people I've seen that actually like Legions gearing and AP system is this small group of white knights here on MM-C. Like you.
    if its the worst then why the fuck are you and your guildies still playing cause WoD is the only expansion ive missed and was by FAR the worst x-pac so far. the pre-patch for it was enough to make me quit after 9-10 or so years of playing.
    to be honest, the only people that would say shit like that are either a troll or started playing in WoD and clearly dont know wtf they are talking about
    like you.

    oh and i really wouldnt of came back to the game if it was anything close to what WoD was

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Not forced to be viable, but definitely forced to be competitive. A lot of the best items drop from Mythic plus or Karazhan, the majority of them infact. And with AP farming being key to character progression you really are technically forced to do other content to be competitive. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily but for sure it kills that large group of high progression players who only logged on to raid, and were able to be optimal because 100% of character progression was done in raids.
    Yes gear certainly is an issue. The loot table in raids need to grow by a lot in order to have pieces for all specs. As a protection paladin for example most gear pieces in ToV are complete crap due to bad secondary stats.
    I also believe that titanforging shouldn't go higher than hc raid gear, that would solve this whole mess.
    And AP from bosses should be on a weekly lockout.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by pmkaboo View Post
    so youre saying that in order to access the only challenging part of this game you have to go through mind-numbingly easy parts of the game every day for hours? relatively speaking ofcourse, i understand that for someone normal is challenging and thats completely ok, but for someone capable of doing mythic, the rest of the game is a joke.
    Nope, the only people placing those requirements are players themselves. You could pick the sources of AP you want to gather, but if you're determined to get the maximum you'll have to do content you personally may not enjoy.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by empo View Post
    Not every game has to be endless, there's a reason so many of us got tired of Diablo3.

    Imagine you are a 5 man player and someone tells you to do pet battles to get geared/APed up for your M+, would you enjoy it "because there's atleast content"?
    You then find a different group to do 5man's with. If your current group wants you to do content you don't want to do ether A) don't do it and find another group or B) Do it.
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.
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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Odd, everyone I play with says it's the worst expantion or at least in the same league as WoD and large parts of my guild are made up of people I played with since vanilla.
    To be honest, the only people I've seen that actually like Legions gearing and AP system is this small group of white knights here on MM-C. Like you.
    See I have the exact opposite experience from this expansion and everyone I play with. Everyone is loving this expansion. So either it is time for you and your friends to quit and find something else or your just making this up. If you don't like this expansion I think you are done with or over wow. Because it basically has something for nearly every play style to do. Only legit complaints I could see would be from pvpers.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by lewie90 View Post
    if its the worst then why the fuck are you and your guildies still playing cause WoD is the only expansion ive missed and was by FAR the worst x-pac so far. the pre-patch for it was enough to make me quit after 9-10 or so years of playing.
    to be honest, the only people that would say shit like that are either a troll or started playing in WoD and clearly dont know wtf they are talking about
    like you.

    oh and i really wouldnt of came back to the game if it was anything close to what WoD was
    So becuase people don't agree with you, they have no idea what they are talking about? Right, right.
    I can't speak for anyone else but I'm still hoping Blizzard will deal with this mess befor too many people quit.

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Regarding what people think about the expansion in general, outside of personal anecdotes, here's an activity graph:



    I think Legion is a good expansion.

    But the amount of goodwill that got a significant injection at Blizzcon with its news regarding 7.1.5 and 7.2, etc, is not infinite. They have to deliver or it will evaporate, and it's been three weeks already.

    You can see it in the graph, too, people are losing interest.

    They have to release 7.1.5 soon, really soon.
    So, about as popular as WoD then? Seems about right, yeah.

  20. #160
    This may not be the game for you then. There are many other games out there you could try. That's the great thing about having choices. You can choose to eliminate things that make you unhappy and choose to do things that make you happy. It's the same with anything in life, mostly. Then again, that's not really how humanity works anymore, is it? Humanity is now just a gooey blob of a shell of it's former self.

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