I like to raid - I do not like beeing forced to do other content to be viable

[Sluvs]

and the topic is basically saying:
> for 10 years we could be hc doing only raid
> now we also have do endlessly grind ap and m+

and some people don't like it.

is that hard to understand?

No, but apparently it is hard to understand that capping or diminishing content in any shape or form will impact negatively for the rest of the playerbase. They are asking a solution for a self inflicted problem that will detract the fun from a whole lot of the player base, and that is selfish.

[zaino]

The trinkets from raids are more than enough to clear all the content. What exactly are you trying to say? Dungeon trinkets are a nice bonus if they drop titanforged. They are not designed to be target farmed, nor are they mandatory.

you cannot say with a straight face say that nature's call is a good trinket, or that any of the trinkets from mythic or mythic+, even 840, would give natures call a run for its money.

http://i.imgur.com/BBMGQXN.png

http://i.imgur.com/A1w0Z89.png

look at how low each of the raid trinkets stack compared to the dungeon trinkets for both dk specs

if you even care about improving yourself as a player you will not accept the heaping pile of shit the raid trinkets are

[Zarelin]

I understand how you feel, but sometimes you just gotta know when to let things go I think. I know it feels like a waste to miss out on AP from world quests or dungeons, but it's okay to take a day off once in a while, or skip over a few world quests so you can relax and do other things, and you probably won't be that far behind. Unless you work in Method or something and WoW is your job, it shouldn't feel like a job! At least, that's my perspective. Just do what you enjoy, though some sacrifices are to be made at times you shouldn't burn yourself out! Have confidence in yourself as a player and a person enjoying life. Best wishes!

[Jewsco]

You mean the system that was in the last 4 expansions? And where did I say I wanted it? Don't put words into my mouth.

What last 4 did you play? I seem to remember valor gear or badge gear for wotlk,cata , and most of mop up to tot. Only wod was complete raid or die or did you miss that?

[Regalbeast]

Already tried to suggest fixing M+ and the need to grind it over and over. The MMO-C "no lifers" that run it all day, every day just totally ripped my post to shreds (currently has 24 pages). Anyway, good luck mate. I completely agree with you.

[Jotaux]

It's a double edged sword. I love being able to progress my character non stop if I desire to. I hate that if you are on a limited schedule you are getting left behind. I have to play all day saturday and sunday just to keep up in AP. 10 people in our raid have their 35th trait and I'm 500k ap away. Some people have even less time than I do and are struggling to even get into pugs because of low ilvl (they would blow the pugs dps out of the water though). Another issue we have is the lack of tanks. I made a tanking alt and can basically have my pick of healers and dps from the guild. Otherwise we are capped at 3 groups running at once, leaving some dps out to dry.

Despite these problems I'm seeing I love the mythic plus system. Its far superior to challenge modes and it makes me really want to push harder for making the times on 15+ keystones.

[Deleted]

I have to do this grind a lot of hours every day - thats really boring - to do what I enjoy. This has never, ever, been the case before. In any expansion.

Funny, I remember feeling the same way about getting consumables for Loatheb tries back in vanilla.

[DeadmanWalking]

If you just want to show up for raid night and do nothing else in the game then you are just shit out of luck this expansion and thank god. Draenor was your dream expansion with nothing to do but raid and frankly that nightmare can go jump off a cliff and get aids for all I care. I much prefer a system where there is shit to do and the half hour a day casual can't pretend they are the end all be all of the game because they can put down a raid boss. If you can do that in 30 mins a day then it isn't all that awesome to begin with. You are going to have to dedicate some time to this game to be cutting edge, as it should be.

Mind you I only play an hour a day to do dailies to keep up with artifact weapon power but I spend 6-8 hours one night a week doing all the raiding I want and keeping up just fine. If you can't keep up that is on you, no way your lifestyle should interfere with everyone else in the game having enough to do to keep them busy.

[Dominus89]

I only do one or two mythic+ per week, just to get the weekly cache.
I also only do the four WQs for the emisary every day, sometimes I do all the AP quests, but for the most part I dont.

I'm 7/7m aswell.

[Deleted]

you cannot say with a straight face say that nature's call is a good trinket, or that any of the trinkets from mythic or mythic+, even 840, would give natures call a run for its money.

http://i.imgur.com/BBMGQXN.png

http://i.imgur.com/A1w0Z89.png

look at how low each of the raid trinkets stack compared to the dungeon trinkets for both dk specs

if you even care about improving yourself as a player you will not accept the heaping pile of shit the raid trinkets are

i agree that natures call is a pile of crap. You know what I did instead? I used my 865 trinket and my 840 trinket that simmed better than my 880 natures call when i got that.
I've killed mythic guarm with 870 and 875 trinkets (worldboss and guarm hc). I would have killed it with a combination of 880 trinkets from EN too. The dps difference isn't THAT bad. There's no need to have the best items to kill bosses.

As I predicted you took simcraft tables as the source of your complaints, and I blame the creators of those lists because it spreads false expectations to a huge chunk of the community. There are a lot of people who get upset about this and can't see the bigger picture.

[kamuimac]

Already tried to suggest fixing M+ and the need to grind it over and over. The MMO-C "no lifers" that run it all day, every day just totally ripped my post to shreds (currently has 24 pages). Anyway, good luck mate. I completely agree with you.

and you deserved it - if you are not hardcore player dont pose as one only accept your casualness and run 1-2mythic + a week. here solved all your problems.

finally we have expansion when hardcores can really be hardcore not just posers.

[Jewsco]

Funny, I remember feeling the same way about getting consumables for Loatheb tries back in vanilla.

Seems people forget that their was always grinds almost as if that is how MMO's are designed? And the "fun" of playing a MMO is to do the grind you like at the pace you like. If friends or a guild are "forcing" you to play in a way you don't like it is time for new friends or a guild or if your friends jump off a bridge you do so too like a lemming.

[lolpve]

Christ raiders are a bunch of spoilt entitled babies. The entire game caters to them, they get the best gear in the game without needing a fraction of the skill required in pvp and still they whine about it. They don't like doing dailies, as if only raiders need artifact power to progress their characters. Everyone is in the same boat, and the reality is that raiding is the least avoidable form of content in this game, despite only a minority of the playerbase being interested in it.

[Butosai]

The reason people feel forced to run m+ isnt for gear its for ap. If your ak 16 doing 7-9 carries you can get 40k ap in 11-13 minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Christ raiders are a bunch of spoilt entitled babies. The entire game caters to them, they get the best gear in the game without needing a fraction of the skill required in pvp and still they whine about it. They don't like doing dailies, as if only raiders need artifact power to progress their characters. Everyone is in the same boat, and the reality is that raiding is the least avoidable form of content in this game, despite only a minority of the playerbase being interested in it.

I think you have that hilariously backwards buddy

[saeros]

No, but apparently it is hard to understand that capping or diminishing content in any shape or form will impact negatively for the rest of the playerbase. They are asking a solution for a self inflicted problem that will detract the fun from a whole lot of the player base, and that is selfish.

and in what way someone who is asking no changes for a things that "detract the fun from a whole lot of the player base" is not selfish?

it is exactly the same situation.

imagine if m+/tf gear was not as good as raid gear or there was a cap.

this topic would be "i don't like bad gear in m+, i want bis, i want to be able to farm it endlessly, i don't care if hc raiders will have to farm it too".
what would you say?
is it not selfish?

and in regard to the "self inflicted problem", not accepting a cap on rewards is not a self inflicted problem?

what aspects of the game are actually not a self inflicted problem?

[Regalbeast]

and you deserved it - if you are not hardcore player dont pose as one only accept your casualness and run 1-2mythic + a week. here solved all your problems.

finally we have expansion when hardcores can really be hardcore not just posers.

Case in point.

[Jewsco]

If you just want to show up for raid night and do nothing else in the game then you are just shit out of luck this expansion and thank god. Draenor was your dream expansion with nothing to do but raid and frankly that nightmare can go jump off a cliff and get aids for all I care. I much prefer a system where there is shit to do and the half hour a day casual can't pretend they are the end all be all of the game because they can put down a raid boss. If you can do that in 30 mins a day then it isn't all that awesome to begin with. You are going to have to dedicate some time to this game to be cutting edge, as it should be.

Mind you I only play an hour a day to do dailies to keep up with artifact weapon power but I spend 6-8 hours one night a week doing all the raiding I want and keeping up just fine. If you can't keep up that is on you, no way your lifestyle should interfere with everyone else in the game having enough to do to keep them busy.

You hit the nail on the head here these complainers want to show up to raid night a few days a week and be bis.
Then at most play their garrison for 5 minutes a day the rest of the time and make millions.
I for one prefer this expansion where I can actually play and do things besides raiding.

[Berengil]

With the current AK, it would take 40 hours of nonstop +7 mythics (3 m+ per hour) to get trait 35 from scratch. Most top guild players had to get it with 16 AK instead of 18 (Or is it 19 now, can't remember).

On earlier xpacs, I was able to log in 1 hour before raid and still play at a competitive level, right now it's impossible.



You're forced to do them if you want to play on a competitive level, like it or not (Top 50 guilds).

I myself am getting benched in Mythic Helya because I don't have 35 traits on Fire (Mage) nor good legendaries for it. I've done every single Daily Chest and cleared every single Raid in each difficulty since release, but I'm still subpar because I don't have either the 5% dps increase nor a damage legendary.

Players with 35 traits have around 350 m+, which translates into 116 hours, or 1.3 hours a day every single day from release. If you add farm time, WQ time and Raid time to it, it gets pretty retarded.


I understand that playing on a competitive level requires dedication, but that dedication should be focused on mastering your character and raiding instead of mindless m+ boosting which at least for me, is one of the worst experiences I've had in this game. And don't get me wrong, m+ is fine if you're playing with your friends or pushing to +15, it's being "forced" to boost the same 2 dungeons over and over again, every day, every week, what's awful.

The game should not be designed around the vanishingly small minority who push Mythic raids and +5 or greater mythic 5mans.

If you are unwilling to put forth the effort to grind every advantage possible for your Mythic-pushing guild's raids, you have two options.

Find a guild that isn't out of their dmn minds requiring absolutely every opportunity to min-max OR unsub.

No one is forcing you. You are trying to insert yourself into an activity that requires things that you are no longer willing to do.

[Deleted]

You see, there are hardcore players who do whatever it takes to the at the edge. At the very bottom of this pit of madness lie the elite master of beating a video game before anyone else. This cats endure 16+ hours a day play sessions, log in on ptr to get the hang of fights and bend the definition of "creative use of game mechanics" to its breaking point (some times getting past it). They do whatever it takes to get the cutting edge. This cats do not have time to make forum post complaining about it, if they did that would make all the different between world 1st or just a lousy region 1st or the most embarrassing of all, realm 1st.

On the other hand, there are the self proclaim hardcore players who do make the forum threads to complain about how time consuming hardcore raiding is. They don't log in to the ptr, they don't time their vacations with mythic raid schedule, they dont do the 16+ hour play sessions and they dont grind every single possible-but-oh-so-improbable peace of gear. Those are a vital part of the wow community and provide the forum staff at Blizzard with plenty of work.

I wish i could upvote this post and put it on Mmo-champion guidelines or mainpage.

[saeros]

You hit the nail on the head here these complainers want to show up to raid night a few days a week and be bis.
Then at most play their garrison for 5 minutes a day the rest of the time and make millions.
I for one prefer this expansion where I can actually play and do things besides raiding.

you know there were some expansions before wod?