Enough with the melee hate

[Saberstrike]

So with all the whining about melee being 'allegedly' overpowered I can't help but wonder -- What do you ranged people want?

Mages have more mobility than a monk, more CC than any non-warlock class, ice block that by all right should be a talent competing with double nova, respectable instant and on-the-move damage, spellsteal, polymorph, AND longest interrupt in the game.

A mage can kill any melee if he doesn't just stand on one spot and drool like a moron while wondering why he can't kill anything when after eating an interrupt he by his own choice doesn't cast anything for 20 seconds "BECAUSE HE'LL JUST INTERRUPT ME AGAIN!".

I won't list kit of every other ranged class as it's p. much common knowledge that druids (all specs) are way too mobile, hunters (when played well) are untouchable, ele shamans are great at kiting, and warlocks can easily tank 2 melees if they play smart. The only ranged I'd argue has genuine problems against melee is shadow priest; But again -- let him cast for 10 seconds and he'll destroy you, just like every other ranged.

This leads me to a conclusion that a lot of people that play ranged classes in wow are spoiled crybabies who's opinion on 'balanced gameplay' is when warriors and DKs are essentially free kills, and all a rogue can do is stun you for a bit then run away.

Ranged are fine. If you want tankiness, and more mobility, and to do more damage than a melee WHEN THAT MELEE IS WAILING ON YOU then I'm sorry but the problem isn't the game. The problem is you. I won't deny that certain melees (feral / WW / DH) are a bit overtuned for how mobile they are, but that's not a melee vs ranged problem. They kill other melees just as much as they kill wizards.

This whole melee vs ranged thing is stupid. In my opinion, the real problem is mobility / tankiness VS output. It's not tied to whether you're a melee or a ranged, but rather -- in a better designed system a class with as much ways to survive by various means as monk / mage / warlock / druid should also not be anywhere near top of the dps.

Holinka did say in pre-legion Q&A that they'll keep mobile classes from also being top dps. So far, only rogues were affected. Here's to hoping WW / MW / Mages / Druids / DH get some in 7.1.5 / 7.2, as well.

[Soisoisoi]

The problem is, the "arms race" of mobility is basically Melee vs Mages/Hunters. If we break it down, it's quite simple:

• Melee need to be in melee range to do any damage.
• Ranged can deal damage anywhere sub-40y (more in some cases).
• Melee damage is (supposedly; hello 1m+ Glacial Spikes) higher to make up for the lower up-time.
• Ranged obviously want, and have tools, to get away from melee
• ... Not all ranged got those tools, some got too many. RIP Spriests/Locks.

OTOH, people on this forum also seem to forget it's balanced more so around 3v3 and do not seem to account for their team-mates when they go "Warriors have 50x Charges () and I can't get them off me!" - Because that's where the other 2 friends come in. That, and roots. They are basically another full CC on a melee that do nothing (outside of positioning) to ranged.

[RelaZ]

We all know you're a melee who hates CC, pillars and anything else that actually requires skill. You've shown it in I don't know how many posts on here, all of them similarly uninformed as this one, praising Legion PvP gameplay.

You're the kind of person who thinks checkers is better than chess and rock paper scissors is a great game with immense depth. Really anyone who thinks Legion is better than WoD/MoP PvP designwise is either terrible or just stupid. "I cant play the game WAAAAH I want to be the best without being good WAAAH I'm TOO BAD TO HANDLE CC WAAAAAH" - that's what you sound like to any seasoned, skilled PvP player.

Also some nice quotes, completely false and utterly retarded:

"A mage can kill any melee if he doesn't just stand on one spot and drool like a moron"
"Ele shamans are great at kiting"

[Arenis]

hunters (when played well) are untouchable

This was the case pre-Legion with Survival (traps+deterrence+disengage+pet slow+concussion). Right now, hunters are not really the kite king anymore (granted 7.0 survival has strong slows/snares, but not for getting away), as a lot of specs can still easily catch up.

[Saberstrike]

I want to be the best without being good WAAAH I'm TOO BAD TO HANDLE CC WAAAAAH

The irony of those two statements being side by side is astounding. Takes so much more skill to press polymorph than to walk to someone and press mortal strike, right?

Get off your high horse, casters never took more skill than melee. Melee never took more skill than casters either. And it's not surprising that my point flew completely over your head.

If you think mage is weak, well. I rest my case.

I'm not saying ele as a whole is fine, but it's not cc / slows that are keeping it down.

[Pantelija]

Wall of bullshit text on melee being weak.

Welcome to ignore list.

[RelaZ]

The irony of those two statements being side by side is astounding. Takes so much more skill to press polymorph than to walk to someone and press mortal strike, right?

Get off your high horse, casters never took more skill than melee. Melee never took more skill than casters either. And it's not surprising that my point flew completely over your head.

And if you think mage is weak, well. I rest my case.

Coordinating CC takes more skill than doing damage. How do you not understand that?

I didn't say anything about weak classes. I just said your mentality shows you're a bad player, and that you said some (laughably) incorrect stuff.

[Bearilla]

We all know you're a melee who hates CC, pillars and anything else that actually requires skill. You've shown it in I don't know how many posts on here, all of them similarly uninformed as this one, praising Legion PvP gameplay.

You're the kind of person who thinks checkers is better than chess and rock paper scissors is a great game with immense depth. Really anyone who thinks Legion is better than WoD/MoP PvP designwise is either terrible or just stupid. "I cant play the game WAAAAH I want to be the best without being good WAAAH I'm TOO BAD TO HANDLE CC WAAAAAH" - that's what you sound like to any seasoned, skilled PvP player.

Pillars require skill? Like running in a circle waiting for CDs? That is news to me.

Isn't this the whining coming from casters atm? WAAAAAH too many gap closers.... WAAAAAH too much dmg.... WAAAAAH too many stuns/kicks/cc/lolIDKbbq. This is what all casters sound like on this forum. Constant whining about melee and how they press so many buttons but still die. If you want to stand still and cast go pve and stop crying about pvp.

[Saberstrike]

My mentality is that PvP should be about "Player versus Player", not "3 players vs 2 players and a sheep / sap / cyclone / root repeated ad infinum".

If that makes me a bad player, then yes. I'm a very bad player. I'm just sick of this argument that 'melee is mongo and takes no skill but taking a person out of the fight for close to 20 seconds and then fighting with 1 less enemy is pure skill'. It's not. And if you can't see it then yes, just call me a bad player and keep thinking everyone who disagrees is a baddie.

It's all my mentality, nothing else. And it's absolutely not about status quo of wizard-centered heavy CC comps dominating the game finally being challenged.

[DechCJC]

Coming from someone that has played a long time on every class, played at relatively high rating in arena and has the bloodthirsty; I think that melee are much easier to play at a fundamental level but at a high-end there's not much difference either way, there really isn't. Some even have it harder, rogues come to mind, sub in particular has a history of having one of the higher skill caps out of all the classes.

With that being said, it's more about being a good player than being good at your class, if you can master one class you can master all of them given the time.

[Soisoisoi]

My mentality is that PvP should be about "Player versus Player", not "3 players vs 2 players and a sheep / sap / cyclone / root repeated ad infinum".

If that makes me a bad player, then yes. I'm a very bad player. I'm just sick of this argument that 'melee is mongo and takes no skill but taking a person out of the fight for close to 20 seconds and then fighting with 1 less enemy is pure skill'. It's not. And if you can't see it then yes, just call me a bad player and keep thinking everyone who disagrees is a baddie.

It's all my mentality, nothing else.

I disagree. Personally, I enjoy being able to setup CC chains, but not those that take little to no skill (instant or uncounterable CC). Being able to Sap someone's trinket or another Rogue's Vanish to me, is a lot more fun than just casting a Sheep or Storm Bolt. On the flip-side, sitting in a CC half the game gets boring fast, and as as a melee, slows are awful. WoD as a Rogue with Burst of Speed vs a Hunter with Frozen Arrow actually annoyed the fuck out of me; I hated having to use such a stupid talent because they could slow from 50y on their auto-attacks. I like the current pace of Rogue right now, and as a Sub Rogue, I'd be fine with the teleport being gone too, Cut to the Chase and Maneuverability honor talents are great.

With that said @Bearilla makes a good point. Sitting on pillars is just a snoozefest.

[Pantelija]

. Some even have it harder, rogues come to mind, sub in particular has a history of having one of the higher skill caps out of all the classes.
.

Hilarious

[Sithalos]

There's a reason you keep seeing double Ret, double DK, double DH, double EnH, double WW (or any mix of these classes) all the time now.

High burst, high uptime, low skill cap.

[Sin Cara]

We all know you're a melee who hates CC, pillars and anything else that actually requires skill. You've shown it in I don't know how many posts on here, all of them similarly uninformed as this one, praising Legion PvP gameplay.

You're the kind of person who thinks checkers is better than chess and rock paper scissors is a great game with immense depth. Really anyone who thinks Legion is better than WoD/MoP PvP designwise is either terrible or just stupid. "I cant play the game WAAAAH I want to be the best without being good WAAAH I'm TOO BAD TO HANDLE CC WAAAAAH" - that's what you sound like to any seasoned, skilled PvP player.

Also some nice quotes, completely false and utterly retarded:

"A mage can kill any melee if he doesn't just stand on one spot and drool like a moron"
"Ele shamans are great at kiting"

Ele shamans are the kings of kiting atm. Not sure if you're out of touch with PvP or just haven't encountered one.

- - - Updated - - -

Hilarious

Pretty much everyone would disagree with you. Just because sub is a mongo spec this expansion doesn't mean it wasn't one of the most skillful classes to play properly in the past.

[Pantelija]

There's a reason you keep seeing double Ret, double DK, double DH, double EnH, double WW (or any mix of these classes) all the time now.

High burst, high uptime, low skill cap.

Melee players think its their "skill" that wins those matches and not their OP class/spec, it was the same stupid mentality back in Wotlk when melee cleaves were rampant and were tunneling healers to death. And they still had audacity to whine when Wizard cleaves started showing up as reaction to melee cleaves.

[Saberstrike]

The skill argument is flawed at it's core because nothing in this game takes 'skill' any more.

Some things are just more annoying than others. And I think we can all agree that spending 5 minutes running around pillars doing a pve rotation until something dies is far more annoying than dying / killing something in 10 seconds and moving on. Both things are bad and there should be a middle ground, but lesser evil and all that.

[Pantelija]

Pretty much everyone would disagree with you. Just because sub is a mongo spec this expansion doesn't mean it wasn't one of the most skillful classes to play properly in the past.

Sub has been a braindead spec since day 1, people thinking Sub required skill in the past is hilarious because it reminds me of Titan Grip warriors in S5 who claimed their skill allowed them to 1shot clothies or Ret paladins in Wotlk aswell when they were killing people in single 123 rotation without wings cd.

If we are to believe you Dunning-Kruger patients about melee requiring skill why are all BGs filled with nothing but melee these days? Does that mean everyone is uber skilled or maybe something else ?

[Soisoisoi]

Sub has been a braindead spec since day 1, people thinking Sub required skill

The skill required is relative to the other specs in the game, most of which are brain-dead in comparison. With that said, there's not that much difference in Legion besides the Cloak and Dagger (15y teleport on SS) baked in. Anything that took skill before still does now.

[NoiseTank13]

Every time I hear range weep about melee having it better than them makes me feel much more alive inside.

[Pantelija]

The skill required is relative to the other specs in the game, most of which are brain-dead in comparison. With that said, there's not that much difference in Legion besides the Cloak and Dagger (15y teleport on SS) baked in. Anything that took skill before still does now.

Just curious but can you point out when Sub took skill to play (hardmode: point out when rogues took skill to play)?