7.1.5 Ptr Changes

[Zaroch]

I'll just have a hard time understanding why they nerfed demo when it's the only good single target build warlocks have and it's not even top tier ST, just above average single target. It loses to ret, it loses to assassination, it loses to feral, it loses to arms; why did it get nerfed? It really makes no sense.

What are the nerfs? I can't find them in the notes.

[Deleted]

What are the nerfs? I can't find them in the notes.

They were added in an earlier build. Synergy increasing dmg by 35% (down from 40%) and demonbolt damage increased by 18% per active demon (down from 20%) The nerf is indeed very minor.

Im actually a disappointed that there is no change to address demo over reliance on haste. Feels super bad when you get high ilvl items that you can't use because they got no haste

[scrynlock]

What are the nerfs? I can't find them in the notes.

Synergy and Demonbolt(?) were nerfed in previous builds

[Halwyn]

Is it just me or Norgannon's becoming pretty useful?

[Deleted]

I mean we're sitting here three months into the expansion and people are still in the denial stage.

ST fix for Destruction isn't coming. Havoc limits it too much. We will always be great at cleave and trash on ST. If ST is good, cleave will be a clown fiesta and we'll have 5-10 Warlocks in every raid group.

I would think that an easy fix for the ST issue would be to nerf havoc damage replication. Give all spells around 20% damage buff and make havoc replicate something like 70-80% of the damage only. Or something around those lines.

[TummyBoy]

If you think it's good design to have a spec that cannot do any single target because it has 1 talent that requires 2 targets to always be up and in range .. good for you man.

Demo is not doing fine on multi target fights in any content, do you know why? Because it's slow and rampy and has no burst, even the dot requires you have something living for more than 15 seconds. Summon Dark Glare isn't a very strong talent at all .. And if you're in a guild where you consider taking it, you might as well be replaced with someone that can actually deal with adds.

And great that demo can do well on some fights, but if it's so amazing on adds why aren't all guilds taking demo warlocks for mythic helya?

Most warlocks aren't crying for damage buffs .. Most probably agree that it's stupid affliction has all these mechanics to do crazy multi target damage (thanks to the last minute artifact weapon design!) while having next to none single target, and demo for not being able to handle adds and having close to no mobility.

Look at logs and see that locks do actually take Darkglare on multiple encounters, which gives them cleave parses not far from what Destro does. Helya is a bad fight for Demo so you'll get no arguments from me there. Odyn is absolutely fine and Guarm exceedingly good, though.

Our biggest problem right now is the small minority of stupidly broken specs we have to compete with. Those get fixed and we'll be a top pick. MM, Havoc, Shadow, and Fire are losing a lot so all have to see how we measure up.

[noaim]

So what affliction got so far is a singletarget nerf (if the drain soul nerf is correct putting it below current drain life) and a potential multitarget buff, if ELT does better than AC in some situations? If so, all I can say is wow at the developers. That is some amazing work right there

[HumbleDuck]

Sky is always falling in warlock forums. Always.

[Baconeggcheese]

Sky is always falling in warlock forums. Always.

Well yeah, that's kind of our thing. It's how infernals are born.

[Deleted]

Look at logs and see that locks do actually take Darkglare on multiple encounters, which gives them cleave parses not far from what Destro does. Helya is a bad fight for Demo so you'll get no arguments from me there. Odyn is absolutely fine and Guarm exceedingly good, though.

But you see the thing about Darkglare is that when you pick it you cannot get Demonbolt. The strong aspect about demo is it's ability to single target, sure you can pad the meters with using that talent but you are gimping the reason why a raid should bring you.

Also if that talent is so good why doesn't the top locks take in on say a fight like cenarius?

You mention Guarm fight .. Yet this is a pure single target fight and demonology is close to the bottom where it is supposed to be strong? (I hope that you ofcourse talk about mythic and not some random LFR shit).

Lastly you talk about other specs getting fixed .. Yet on PTR demo and destro are doing less dmg and affliction is doing more or less the same.

[n0n3]

Blizzard will not do any mechanical changes mid expansion. Warlocks will be shit for this whole expansion, that's what blizzard intended since alpha.

[Deleted]

but guys remember to believeeeee. I know this is the public test realm but don't actually test anything yet and just wait till it goes on live, that's how it works, amiright? and don't forget that that one guy beat that other guy in his EN normal hardcore raiding guild in meters once, so warlock is perfectly balanced right now!!

[Deleted]

You know we are in trouble, when even Gaidax isn't defending blizzards nerfs to us besides that I have zero hope for destro pvp in 7.1.5, first they remove our ability to use shadowburn in any usefull way with the stupid change, and now they pigonhole us even more towards playing only chaos bolt focused talents, which basically means we will, once again, be free honor kills in BG and RBG, once melee are on our ass or we are chaos locked.

[Deleted]

lololol TOLD YOU

I got rubbished for saying this is how it works, how it always works.

The first iteration always brings in the big changes and the following ones are always just tweaks, numbers and bugs. They never change things in a big way after the first lot, because they are the Big Bright Idea and they are therefore there to stay. If you got big changes it makes no sense whatever to stagger them, because each new patch would completely invalidate the previous round of testing should you switch talents around or bring in new ones every time

It doesn't matter if they make no sense to the player base, how much feedback we give or how much evidence, the devs always assume they are right and everyone else is wrong, example, Ion specifically defending those rubbish legendary pants not once but twice. It's human nature to defend your creation and the more people criticise it the more you defend it.

So folks THAT IS IT. Look at the first datamined changes and presume that's what we're going to get. For affliction nothing is going to change because the new talents are worse than the ones we already have, Drain Soul is just Drain Life with a shard proc. Our "burst" will stay non-existant, no attempt at all to remedy the crippling ramp, nothing done about the laughable single target damage (Malefic Grasp + gutted Drain Soul is worse than just Drain Soul live, and invariably worse than Writhe, plus Malefic Grasp actively competes with Soul Effigy which is also the invariably better talent to take)

Demonology just gets a nerf, absolutely no changes to any of the obvious problems like ramp or DE spamming

Destruction gets a hefty kick in the nuts, is still the Wreak Havoc spec with the worst single target


Come on Mr Gaidax tell us that it's only PTR and there will be lots more changes 'cos Blizzard said so, we could do with a chuckle.

[Gaidax]

You know we are in trouble, when even Gaidax isn't defending blizzards nerfs to us besides that I have zero hope for destro pvp in 7.1.5, first they remove our ability to use shadowburn in any useless situation with the stupid change, and now they pigonhole us even more towards playing only chaos bolt focused talents, which basically means we will, once again, be free honor kills in BG and RBG, once melee are on our ass or we are chaos locked.

I already made my feedback known and since this build changes little, I see no reason to comment.

I have several remarks in regards to some choices made, but other than that I am positive about 7.1.5 direction.

Besides, what is the point of arguing with a bunch of people who can't play warlock to save their lives and are amusingly ignorant about it. There are maybe two-three posters left worth holding conversation with here, the community is no more really, poisoned by individuals who are incapable of nothing but spreading negativity with a trainwreck of experience once you bother checking their characters.

[Jessicka]

Oh well. Enjoy the rest of Legion I guess.

[erinthea]

Except they didn't even bother to fix bugs drain soul artifact talents still have no effect on healing or damage

[KrazyK923]

Still nothing.

This is a joke.

Besides, what is the point of arguing with a bunch of people who can't play warlock to save their lives and are amusingly ignorant about it. There are maybe two-three posters left worth holding conversation with here, the community is no more really, poisoned by individuals who are incapable of nothing but spreading negativity with a trainwreck of experience once you bother checking their characters.

"Everyone who disagree with me is bad."

lol nice shield.

[Deleted]

I already made my feedback known and since this build changes little, I see no reason to comment.

I have several remarks in regards to some choices made, but other than that I am positive about 7.1.5 direction.

Besides, what is the point of arguing with a bunch of people who can't play warlock to save their lives and are amusingly ignorant about it. There are maybe two-three posters left worth holding conversation with here, the community is no more really, poisoned by individuals who are incapable of nothing but spreading negativity with a trainwreck of experience once you bother checking their characters.

And what is that direction? What makes warlocks great? Destruction can barely compete when cleaving, demo can barely compete when turreting, what else are locks good for? Why is SS still 3 sec base cast time? Why do we not have an interrupt in the vast majority of cases? Why do we have mana, when it serves no other purpose than creating some bandaid talents that are either always (RE) or never (Mana tap) picked?

How did any of the changes improve affliction or demo ramp? Issues which Blizzard already acknowledged twice, yet seem to forget to ever fix. Frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of not only being very mediocre damage but also having to put up with a large number of hoops to jump through just to reach that point. In Mythic+ my m8s aren't exactly thrilled about me not having an interrupt either.

[Deleted]

I already made my feedback known and since this build changes little, I see no reason to comment.

I have several remarks in regards to some choices made, but other than that I am positive about 7.1.5 direction.

Besides, what is the point of arguing with a bunch of people who can't play warlock to save their lives and are amusingly ignorant about it. There are maybe two-three posters left worth holding conversation with here, the community is no more really, poisoned by individuals who are incapable of nothing but spreading negativity with a trainwreck of experience once you bother checking their characters.

I consistently have 90% + mythic rankings and I say warlock is a bad class, unless we're talking about encounters where you can permanently cleave. Even at that we got some serious competition. And that's ignoring all the terrible mechanics, outdated spell effects etc.

You'd still smile if Blizzard literally served you a pile of shit, not just metaphorically in form of warlock class design in Legion.

The only one not worth holding a conversation with is you, Gaidax.