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  1. #101
    I figured since I'm casual there really is no point me going HAM on a spec, with that in mind I've rolled DK for PvE (Mythic+) and have turned my Hunter Survival for casual PvE and PvP... in LFR you can top meters as Survival so it's a win win plus it's by far the most enjoyable spec out there.

  2. #102
    Considering changing to Windwalker Monk but I still have hopes and dreams left for the Hunter.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    plus it's by far the most enjoyable spec out there.
    Sadly.. this is true for my self too.. Clean, slick and simple animations and big numbers. Sadly again, one of those things that makes Surival so fun, MB windows, is something thats limiting in any high end content. And lack of decent AoE if not specced into Butchery.
    On other hand, butchery it self is different story, same as new Animal Instincts, its a trap talent.

    Butchery has resource cost AND recharge timer.

    Animal Instincts cooldown bonus gets reduced by haste. So, with low haste youll have random 3s CD via Animal Instinct proc, while with high haste youll have less of a bonus cooldown. This makes talent performing "equally" over all times, but reduces its direct value when our haste keeps to grow in future content. I got mine on 2s CD already.
    What we actually hoped for is that AI CD stays fixed at 3s bonus per proc, this would make spec play a bit more spammy in the end, but its whats expected of Agility user.

    Further.. with taking everything in concern, all unlogic stuff, stuff that opposite eachother.. Survival looks like spec where Devs simply had to many ideas and tried to make them work together.

    Being that its a 'nature' guardian too i wont be surprised if they had 'fun' with nature too while they were tossing those idea on a pile making it dumpster fire growing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    It's not nerfed unless it's live.

  4. #104
    Unless it's completely ruined and drops to the lowest dps class (and when I say lowest I mean being 10-20% lower than the others) then no, I won't be rerolling.

  5. #105
    What i find very funny is that blizzard spent almost 2 years (since erly legion alpha) "talking" with hunters on their forums. Hundred pages threads. And some of the idea in there are brilliant! Yet blizzard just decide to ignore everything and do their own things that nobody really wants.
    Well, just one more case of "We'll tell you what you love and you shut up" to add to the list.

  6. #106
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurg View Post
    Animal Instincts cooldown bonus gets reduced by haste. So, with low haste youll have random 3s CD via Animal Instinct proc, while with high haste youll have less of a bonus cooldown. This makes talent performing "equally" over all times, but reduces its direct value when our haste keeps to grow in future content. I got mine on 2s CD already.
    What we actually hoped for is that AI CD stays fixed at 3s bonus per proc, this would make spec play a bit more spammy in the end, but its whats expected of Agility user.
    On a side note, and I won't be talking about numbers here as I have no idea how it really measures up in the high end, but I like the gameplay with Animal Instincts, as it allows you to turn your rotation into something simpler, more instinctive, more "beastmastery". Think of Mongoose Bite as your autoshot, think of Flanking Strike as Dire Beast, think of Aspect of the Eagle as some sort of Bestial Wrath, and think of all your other skills (Lacerate, Explosive, Dragonsfire) as variations of Kill Command that you kinda weave in one at a time whenever your Flanking Strike is on cooldown. The three "main" skills (Mongoose, Flanking, Aspect of the Eagle) now work together to maximize Eagle uptime. With pacing roughly equivalent to that of BM's Bestial Wrath. You can even replace your three "kill command" keys into a simple castsequence macro, and you'll probably do just as well.

    Mongoose lets you regen focus for Flanking Strike, Mastery needs to be high so that your Mongoose Bite charges get capped to 3 as often as possible between casts, and as many cooldown reductions as possible get put into Aspect of the Eagle (or Flanking Strike, which doesn't hurt the Aspect recharge since it's always a 50% cooldown reduction). Whenever a reduction is invested into Eagle, use Lacerate, Dragonsfire Grenade or Explosive trap as fillers to keep your stacks of Mongoose between 2 and 3.

    With that playstyle several talents do absolutely nothing for you, and actually I like Mortal Wounds for yet another mastery boost, Spitting Cobra for the focus regen and the CD reset on crit for Harpoon to minimize Animal Instinct waste. It's admittedly a very strange build but it's a nice change of pace to be able to mash your keyboard like an animal instead of playing boss fights like they're Liszt piano pieces for half decent results.

    Again, I'm only talking about the play style. As for the numbers, it's semi-correct for single target, but if you're going to do some AOE, hahahahahahaha yeah sorry, you're out of luck here. Spam Carve, I guess.

  7. #107
    the one thing I am finding really irritating is how we have to get 6 stacks MB before our Artifact does any decent damage... slightly irritating. Monks just run in and pop it with 3 chi (which takes 1 or 2 globals to achieve) the only class I can compare ours to is Unholy DK but then their Artifact does crazy amounts of damage, ours tickles a little..

    I'm a bit happier now I can pick AMoC, I decided to just swap my Hunter fully over to Survival, MM nerfs incoming, I didn't see the point in doing both, so went full Melee, it'll happily tag along with my DK and DH

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by babebridou View Post
    Snip
    The thing is.. mastery is our worst stats.. by a loooonnggg shot. And i mean reaaalllyyy looonnngg shot.

    Versa>Crit=Haste>>Mastery

    No matter what talent choices you run with, thats the stat priority.

    I personally roll with AI, Crows/Mortal, Farstrider/Trail, Improved traps, rangers net, Butchery/DFG, Expert.

    I exchange those three depending on the situation, but Mortal Wounds is so underpowered that, with all sims, you are better with taking nothing instead of MortalW.
    Following on, mastery even before our pets got fixed, was least favorite stat, with pets being fixed (mastery can proc from AA) it still devalued mastery even more.

    I went with different logic tho.

    Since our mastery can now proc of pets AA, why would i stack bad stat to heighten MB procs when i can stack haste and do the same via increased speed of pets AA.
    Im full Haste/Crit build with +3 Relics on Fluffy GO! (+15% Pet Haste) making it total of +30% of pets haste, being that my haste it self is around 30% and my critt is around 40% and i literally cant dump Mongoose Bites fast enough quite frequently but..
    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    the one thing I am finding really irritating is how we have to get 6 stacks MB before our Artifact does any decent damage... slightly irritating. Monks just run in and pop it with 3 chi (which takes 1 or 2 globals to achieve) the only class I can compare ours to is Unholy DK but then their Artifact does crazy amounts of damage, ours tickles a little..

    I'm a bit happier now I can pick AMoC, I decided to just swap my Hunter fully over to Survival, MM nerfs incoming, I didn't see the point in doing both, so went full Melee, it'll happily tag along with my DK and DH
    pretty much this. We have fun gameplay and interesting artifact that slightly boosts our skills, comparing to most of them out there, specially melees its undertuned.
    Next big issue, as i said, is our MB buildup of Colossus smash window, i like the idea that you need to be aware of the things around you before you start your burst since every second off the mob during burst window - its damage loss. Its working good in solo content, party content too, but in raids where you need to pay attention to whats going on around you AND people's actions.. yea.. a bit over the head on mythic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    It's not nerfed unless it's live.

  9. #109
    Deleted
    Not long ago, everyone was crying about ret palas beeing absolutely not viable for mythic raids, not they are. Not long ago everyone was saying WL is so broken, there is no way they will be viable.

    Now world first helya was done with 2 locks and a retribution paladin.

    So what exactly is it, that you guys are affraid of?

    Hunter will be viable, just like almost any other class is. Blizzard sometimes does questionable decisions, but in the end almost all classes are viable even for world first kills.

    So im completely relaxed about the hunter changes, we will be fine.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by aerlins View Post
    Not long ago, everyone was crying about ret palas beeing absolutely not viable for mythic raids, not they are. Not long ago everyone was saying WL is so broken, there is no way they will be viable.

    Now world first helya was done with 2 locks and a retribution paladin.

    So what exactly is it, that you guys are affraid of?

    Hunter will be viable, just like almost any other class is. Blizzard sometimes does questionable decisions, but in the end almost all classes are viable even for world first kills.

    So im completely relaxed about the hunter changes, we will be fine.
    I don't think viability is a problem. I think there's a real concern that the spec will be complete ass to play. I'll reserve my judgment until the patch drops (I only start seriously playing my Hunter this week anyways, so I'm not in any way as invested as most people).

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by aerlins View Post
    So what exactly is it, that you guys are affraid of?

    Hunter will be viable, just like almost any other class is. Blizzard sometimes does questionable decisions, but in the end almost all classes are viable even for world first kills.

    So im completely relaxed about the hunter changes, we will be fine.
    Survival hunter here.
    As such.. have you looked at latest changes? They are removing Improved Traps (50% reduced CD on Explosive trap) and putting shite talent that boosts our new passive even further.
    The issue that im afraid of, and i presume most of survivals reading this, is that new passive (after 2sec not being triggered trap is fully armed and gains extra effect) will NOT work in any form of group content.
    New passives extra effect for Explosive Trap is +50% damage buff, on top of that, new talent that replaced Improved Traps boosts this effect for 200% more damage.
    Why will not work? Well.. Why would tanks move ANYTHING, especially bosses, just for you, potentially risking some unwanted attack hitting group while doing so? Or what about stationary bosses like Wrath of Azshara, Helya and such?

    Were still talking about content that will be competitive trough expansion like mythic+ runs. With this logic and new version of Survival their value by its defaults is destroyed in atleast two dungeons, Maw of Souls and Eye of Azshara, and any form of Trial of Valor raid, and thats just from top of my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    It's not nerfed unless it's live.

  12. #112
    Deleted
    So yeah, new PTR patch notes are out.

    Not happy with those as a survival hunter (who also does mythic raiding and is ilvl 886).

    I know I will abandon the ship now. My raid leader started to exclude me from progression raids (currently cenarius mythic) because I can not compete buffed + pre pot + inscription rune with my fellow melee players who do unbuffed more damage. I honestly can't be mad about this because i'd do the same but as it stands now, I had hope for 7.1.5 to bring the changes necessary to make this spec viable. We would have needed to see buffs across almost all abilitys in the 50%+ range. But we don't now and this is supposed to go live within 2 weeks. So yeah, hopes out. I am not even gonna respec. I'll just straight up switch classes as it is pointless to continue like this. 7.2 is months away and I won't hold out hope for that long.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurg View Post
    The thing is.. mastery is our worst stats.. by a loooonnggg shot. And i mean reaaalllyyy looonnngg shot.

    Versa>Crit=Haste>>Mastery

    No matter what talent choices you run with, thats the stat priority.
    Wasn't it fixed with a patch? You know, the one which made the pet autos proc Hunting Companion. Right now I think Mastery might be the worst, but only marginally, and all the stats are close to each other.

    Ofc tho, Mastery has a cap of its own, when you enter MB phase and can just spam MB till the end without giving a crap - that means any more Mastery is almost pointless.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by squary93 View Post
    So yeah, new PTR patch notes are out.

    Not happy with those as a survival hunter (who also does mythic raiding and is ilvl 886).

    I know I will abandon the ship now. My raid leader started to exclude me from progression raids (currently cenarius mythic) because I can not compete buffed + pre pot + inscription rune with my fellow melee players who do unbuffed more damage. I honestly can't be mad about this because i'd do the same but as it stands now, I had hope for 7.1.5 to bring the changes necessary to make this spec viable. We would have needed to see buffs across almost all abilitys in the 50%+ range. But we don't now and this is supposed to go live within 2 weeks. So yeah, hopes out. I am not even gonna respec. I'll just straight up switch classes as it is pointless to continue like this. 7.2 is months away and I won't hold out hope for that long.
    Yash. Same here.. Not happy at all with current path Devs are taking Survival hunter.
    I have a backup Retribution Pala, but will prolly reroll to Enhance shammy.
    As you said. The patch is not final, but as i said, that new talent simply makes things even worse than before. I have no idea how will i coord with people in random dungeon, not to mention my Tanks as well. There is NO WAY that any guild/raid leader would change their raid/boss strat just because of one survival hunter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Wasn't it fixed with a patch? You know, the one which made the pet autos proc Hunting Companion. Right now I think Mastery might be the worst, but only marginally, and all the stats are close to each other.

    Ofc tho, Mastery has a cap of its own, when you enter MB phase and can just spam MB till the end without giving a crap - that means any more Mastery is almost pointless.
    Yep, it is. but still Mastery is behind any other stat.

    Agility=9.55,
    Versatility=6.47,
    CritRating=6.24,
    HasteRating=6.12,
    MasteryRating=6.01,
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    It's not nerfed unless it's live.

  15. #115
    Deleted
    But that's not a long shot, that's basically a "pick whatever item has the highest item level" stat priority.

    As for the new trap mechanic. It's not good, but it's also not bad, there are some/quite a few encounters where you can make use of it.
    Ursoc comes to mind, Ilg..-vagina tree, even Dragons from time to time.
    It's just that it isn't enough. Steeltrap 2s delay would be extremely strong if they changed it similar to how they changed AiS for MM hunters -> Not "target that is out of combat", but "target that you didn't deal damage to"
    500% is mother-fucking huge, that thing is already doing like ~700k damage or something.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2016-11-30 at 01:50 PM.

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