Mages' changes facing 7.1.5

[JIMM-]

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yeah, blizz did something this time, they just nerfed fire mages even more with the new build (nice making a joke out of yourself because i think u are having an idea that we got severely buffed with the latest PTR build, LUL) .

the latest ptr build still does the same thing to the big picture, killing off fire mages, and they are pretty consistent with that direction.

all the small alterations does not offset any of the nerf hammer laid down from the previous ptr build, in fact the latest build is even worse with lowering overall crit % we have and on top of that a new pyretic incantation nerf, the previous ptr fire build albeit being absolutely shit, is actually delivering better numbers than the latest ptr build

[Solidpat]

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I find it very amusing that you guys believe we got a buff in the last ptr wave lol... a 15% buff to a few basic abilities doesn't even make up for the nerfs they also just added: Flame on, PI and Crit mass... That's the 3rd wave of nerf we get within the same ptr, and this spec was already going nowhere with its crappy scaling.

[Deleted]

Looks like Ice Flows is back on the menu bois! Oh wait, that's right....

[nickseng]

I find it very amusing that you guys believe we got a buff in the last ptr wave lol... a 15% buff to a few basic abilities doesn't even make up for the nerfs they also just added: Flame on, PI and Crit mass... That's the 3rd wave of nerf we get within the same ptr, and this spec was already going nowhere with its crappy scaling.

*shrug*
I'm just quoting people who think there won't be any more changes.
PTR is *still* not over.

[Komman]

It seems weird to me that people are freaking out over changes that were basically expected and predicted. The nerf to Pyretic Incantation was a common expectation in the Discord. All the changes seem fairly straight forward in terms of their goals - de-emphasize Combustion burst, reduce value of Critical Strike. Same goes for Arcane with the removal of Quickening and sorting out the rotation again. Same also goes for Frost with removing the "Frostbolt + Glacial Spike" spam rotation, and reducing Thermal Void Icy Veins uptime. None of these seem out of the norm, yet a lot of people sound as if they are completely surprised that these changes are happening.

[Deleted]

It seems weird to me that people are freaking out over changes that were basically expected and predicted. The nerf to Pyretic Incantation was a common expectation in the Discord. All the changes seem fairly straight forward in terms of their goals - de-emphasize Combustion burst, reduce value of Critical Strike. Same goes for Arcane with the removal of Quickening and sorting out the rotation again. Same also goes for Frost with removing the "Frostbolt + Glacial Spike" spam rotation, and reducing Thermal Void Icy Veins uptime. None of these seem out of the norm, yet a lot of people sound as if they are completely surprised that these changes are happening.

If you want to make something more useful you don't make something else shite so people will be forced to use the less shite thing. People stack crit because mastery and haste are garbage, where is the "we want to make all secodnary stats matter", oh, that's right, if nobody wants crit, they will automatically get other stats. 10/10 logic.

[Cracked]

If you want to make something more useful you don't make something else shite so people will be forced to use the less shite thing. People stack crit because mastery and haste are garbage, where is the "we want to make all secodnary stats matter", oh, that's right, if nobody wants crit, they will automatically get other stats. 10/10 logic.

Actually, that's exactly what you do. Granted, they wanted to keep dps around the same, so they will have to increase the dps gained from haste (already done with this build) and mastery (same, because higher hitting spells = bigger ignites).

[aznxk3vi17]

Still no sight of the passive buffs we used to have with our armors. I guess Blizzard just wanted them gone? It really hurts going from 35% haste to 21% on the PTR. REALLY hurts.

[D3athsting]

Holy s**t why don't they simply nerf LB and Ignite spreading instead of killing even more ST damage?

[nocturnus]

Holy s**t why don't they simply nerf LB and Ignite spreading instead of killing even more ST damage?

Because they're complete and utter idiots. Oh and by the way, arcane on PTR is shit now too. (about 70k dps difference with the previous build)

[D3athsting]

Because they're complete and utter idiots. Oh and by the way, arcane on PTR is shit now too. (about 70k dps difference with the previous build)

I miss GC, some spec/classes played like sh*t but at least number tuning was good

[deadman1]

It seems weird to me that people are freaking out over changes that were basically expected and predicted. The nerf to Pyretic Incantation was a common expectation in the Discord. All the changes seem fairly straight forward in terms of their goals - de-emphasize Combustion burst, reduce value of Critical Strike. Same goes for Arcane with the removal of Quickening and sorting out the rotation again. Same also goes for Frost with removing the "Frostbolt + Glacial Spike" spam rotation, and reducing Thermal Void Icy Veins uptime. None of these seem out of the norm, yet a lot of people sound as if they are completely surprised that these changes are happening.

The fun of fire is the pyro procs, how will fire maintain that with less crit?

I'm asking a real question from a place of ignorance, I'm not shit talking or anything.

[Armourboy]

Actually, that's exactly what you do. Granted, they wanted to keep dps around the same, so they will have to increase the dps gained from haste (already done with this build) and mastery (same, because higher hitting spells = bigger ignites).

Sorry but even with the changes no one is going to go after mastery or haste, instead you will be trying to find even more crit just so the spec is more fluid again. If anything they made it worse, especially considering we know how the spec plays at higher crit ratings.

Unless they change the actual scaling of mastery to the point it's close to crit, everyone is still going after crit first and foremost.

[Deleted]

Sorry but even with the changes no one is going to go after mastery or haste, instead you will be trying to find even more crit just so the spec is more fluid again. If anything they made it worse, especially considering we know how the spec plays at higher crit ratings.

Unless they change the actual scaling of mastery to the point it's close to crit, everyone is still going after crit first and foremost.

yeah, if anything that made crit more valuable.

[Shullski]

yeah, if anything that made crit more valuable.

I am usually not a doomsdayers and have played mage since the BC Pre-Patch, but if they go through with this crit reduction I think it'll be the last I play of my mage. The fun gameplay of crit comes in at about 55% crit. Before that - imo anyway - the gameplay is simply clunky and maddening as you are just praying for crits.

[TyrianFC]

The fun of fire is the pyro procs, how will fire maintain that with less crit?

I'm asking a real question from a place of ignorance, I'm not shit talking or anything.

Correction: The fun of fire is pyro procs when pyro is a meaningful hard hitting spell. Right now crit is way too high, and pyro hits like a wet noodle as a result of the only way to balance it.

Casting fewer (but harder hitting pyros) will be more fun than constantly casting turkey slap pyros. Of course theres a balance/line somewhere between those two extremes, but right now its simply in the 'too much too weak' category.

[Rylalai]

Correction: The fun of fire is pyro procs when pyro is a meaningful hard hitting spell. Right now crit is way too high, and pyro hits like a wet noodle as a result of the only way to balance it.

Casting fewer (but harder hitting pyros) will be more fun than constantly casting turkey slap pyros. Of course theres a balance/line somewhere between those two extremes, but right now its simply in the 'too much too weak' category.

Not for me.. I don't care if my pyro hits like a noodle as long as I can throw them out as if there's no tomorrow. I don't want to go back to the "50% crit days" where I had to cast way to many goddamn fireballs until I got one crit, and don't even think about 2 successive crits.. Playing a fire mage with not high enough crit just feels so goddamn slow and uninteresting.

[D3athsting]

Correction: The fun of fire is pyro procs when pyro is a meaningful hard hitting spell. Right now crit is way too high, and pyro hits like a wet noodle as a result of the only way to balance it.

Casting fewer (but harder hitting pyros) will be more fun than constantly casting turkey slap pyros. Of course theres a balance/line somewhere between those two extremes, but right now its simply in the 'too much too weak' category.

I'm really looking forward to this because of legendary belt, less crits and harder hitting pyros will make belt very strong considering that scorch will become a mini fire blast without cooldown

[Deleted]

I don't understand why they don't buff the various ignite dots if they are nerfing pyroblast. If they want to reduce burstyness and improve sustained damage, then they should turn fire into a multidot-class, where you apply different dots with different spells, and have to refresh them from time to time. When in this scenario the pyroblast dot would last longer than the fireball dot, then the spec would work with a lesser amount of crit because you would not need to spam pyros. But if they are not inclined to do so, then why the changes to the pyro mechanics?

The worst thing is that they are balancing the spec with legendaries in mind, and the only one I got is Sephuz' Secret. So much fun being nerfed without any reason whatsoever. :/

[deadman1]

Correction: The fun of fire is pyro procs when pyro is a meaningful hard hitting spell. Right now crit is way too high, and pyro hits like a wet noodle as a result of the only way to balance it.

Casting fewer (but harder hitting pyros) will be more fun than constantly casting turkey slap pyros. Of course theres a balance/line somewhere between those two extremes, but right now its simply in the 'too much too weak' category.

For me I rather have more weaker procs than fewer stronger procs.